Sweeeeet!!! Great, thanks.....all I need now is a camera I can test this on....sigh...damn descision-anxiesty...

Excellent tutorial, I too use a grey card for many scenes, but as I have said in a previous thread, I meter off a mid tone when doing a landscape (maybe I am wrong to do this) the main problem that I encounter is that some landscapes have a big variance between highlight and shadow which can cause serious blowouts, also because some of my landscapes are very wide, it is difficult if not impossible sometimes to get a similar light reading off a card for something that can be a couple of miles away because the light where I am can be very different from my point of focus. Any thought appreciated LP

Correction...... 2 Stops Under Exposure on black should read 1/8 not 1/6..... sorry about that. Yes LP you are correct in that even if you don't have a grey card reading off any mid tone object will work.... concrete, grass in open shade.... these types of things will work too. The issue you are talking about is a pretty common one for most landscape artists. The contrast range that our eyes can see is about 12-14 stops difference..... where film and digital sensors it's more like 5 or so stops! I don't want to confuse the issue by going into a long winded diatribe on Graduated ND filters but they are a good thing for this type of problem.... If you're in a high contrasty light situation.... a good thing to do is meter the important areas... the bright areas and then the darkest area.... how many stops difference is it? More than 5.... than you're probably going to have an issue with either blown out highlights or lost detail in the shadow/dark areas. That being said, and I'm no expert on landscapes, but I would think that metering off a nice blue area of sky and opening up 1-1/12 stops might be a good place to start....?

A very clear and understandable tutorial - thanks Michelle.

Wow!! Michelle u rock big time!! Thx so much for that!! It's clear and neat!! There's just one thing I still don't get here and it's HOW do u use the grey card?? Do u put it in front of ur lens and do an AE lock before shooting or what?? I just don't get that part!

You got it girl!! Make sure the light you are in is the same as your subject..... put the grey card in front of your lens so it's the only thing visible...... you can use the AE lock if that's how you like to do it.... now compose and shoot.....

Michelle it is not often that the difference in light conditions are that vast, but on occasion it is, Pentland hills 1 in my gallery is a good example. I usually meter as you say of blue sky (when available) and then insert the grad if I am going to use one. 9 times out of 10 it is sufficient and works well, on occasion the difference is just too great, and there is nothing as far as I know that can be done, save for allot of PW. I understand the difference between the amount of stops the eye can see in relation to film/digital, that though is down to physical limitations. For the most part I am successful, so I cant really complain.

No doubt..... I think you know that I knew that you knew that I know you knew this stuff.... your galley shows that! :~)) LOL! As you've said I think that it does get to a point (in certain light situations) where the difference is too great... and no matter what you choose to do, any compromise you try to make with the exposure just isn't going to look right......

Great tutorial Michelle -- reminds me of my photo class days! ;)

You know that I know, and I know thay you know that I know, Lolouder. Enough already............!!!

Oooooh!! So cool!!! Now this is easy!!! Do u find these grey cards in any photo shops?

Such a good teacher....in example and answers....

Another old trick to get a correct light reading is to meter the palm of your hand. Ethnicity is irrelevant. All people's palms are approximately 18% reflective. (Keyword: 'Approximately') It's important though to orient the palm of ones hand so it received the same light, from the same source and from the same direction, as close as possible, as the main subject. btw, excellent mini tut Michelle, clear and to the point.

Thanks guslaw..... yes I knew about the palm thing but thought that skin color did make a difference, and did not mention it because I didn't want to cause anyone more confusion..... This told to me by my photo professor... and she is of Indian (from India) ethnicity. That to meter off the palm caucasions should stop down one.... dark skin meter, no change..... she likes to tell us how her skin is 18% grey.... hence the reason for her email address of 18percent@XXX.XXX Maybe this is incorrect?

Yes Michelle, there are differences in palm skin tones, that's why I emphasized "Approximately", but as an emergency measure it beats relying on often faulty 'average' meter readings of beach or snow scenes and then wondering why the pictures are under exposed ("I don't understand what happened, there was plenty of light and the sun was out and I used ISO 200 film and I had the cammera set on 'automatic' and that's the last time I'll buy a Minolta, Olympus, Canon, Nikon, Sony, or whatever, camera, they take lousy pictures, they're no good")...

See, it's the equipment's fault, not the operator who has no clue how to use it...

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 18:51

LOL! My fault! Have a tendency to speed read... and I totally missed (Keyword: 'Approximately')..... Agree with you 100%...... LOL!

i'm a bit confused, Michelle...well maybe more than a bit. i either shoot in speed mode or manual mode most of the time. your tutorial was easy for everyone else. it's not for me. You got a version for first-graders??? LOL! well, it's embarrassing but what hell...gotta laugh about it. i have read my manual too BTW. i've read this tutorial like 5 times. sigh. let's see if i understand you right. let's say i'm shooting in manual mode: 1. set appeture, shutter speed & ISO 2. put the grey card in front of my lens so it's all i see. 3 .make sure card is in the same lighting as the subject. 4. make adjustments to my shutter speed. 4. press AE lock. 5. remove card. 6. take picture. #4 is where i'm getting lost. how do i know where to set it? will i be able to tell just by looking into my viewfinder? or am i gonna have to remember those numbers? in your tuturial you ask, "do you see a pattern...1/125, 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, 1/6. No, Michelle, sorry, i don't see the pattern. "just basic math..." sigh. ok, well you probably remember i have a learning disability. dyscalculia. math. i don't get it. i see the pattern for 60, 30, and 15. That 30 decreased in half each time. the 1/125 and 1/6 are confusing to me. and then everything changes with black. I'm soooooooo lost Michelle. am i gonna have to figure this out every damn time i take a picture???? Number and math...HATE 'em!!!! i will HATE to take pictures if i'm have to try to figure all this out before i take a picture every time!!!! sigh. and then every time i change my appeture, i'm gonna have to remember a whole different set of numbers, Michelle???? maybe you or someone else can explain this in a way that makes sense to me or maybe know a trick to help me figure this out. jeesh. how embarrassing... oh well. i learn better to have someone show me. wanna come over Michelle!!!! :) thanks for all your help!!! and thanks for taking the time to make this wonderful tutorial!!!

LOL!! That's actually a very good question Sheila!! I asked myself the same one but was too lazy to type it!! So u just did it for me too thx a bunch!! I too totally suck at math and when I see that word I tend to just run away!! Let's wait and see what's coming up next! Guys, help plz, be patient with the disabled! ;)

thanks, Pascale!!! hugz. it's nice to be understood!!!

Well, since I just got a D70 and have always used custom white balance with the other Minolta "carry camera", I do know the need. My question is this: Some suggest the grey card and others a white card. I do not have a grey card and use a white paper to set white balance. This seems to work well. What is the difference? Thanks for taking the real time to put this tut together. You obviously are involved enough to spend the time to do it. Thanks and much appreciation. Tom.

Ah!! And a white one over here!! Just to confuse us a 'lil more!! Thx Tom! ;P

oh i got to get on this to find out 'chelle's answer... thank you so much... this is great! :] can always use a refresher course! (maybe offer it to Doug to put in the resource center too, with a brief synopsis of the discussion? sorry... ahhh, more work)

jeesh, now i'm REALLY embarrassed!!! I see i have two #4's. Good grief. i really DO know how to count!!!! sigh Michelle, my question is thread #19 has to do with the FIRST #4...about making adjustments to my shutter speed after i have the gray card in front of the lens. sorry for the confusion!

Excellent tutorial Michelle....Thanks!

Ahhh! Sheila, don't be embarrassed.... when I went to college the first time around (1986) I had to take remedial math classes. So you're not the only one that has issues with numbers!

If you meter off the grey card you do not need to make any adjustments to your shutter speed. Because this is going to give you the correct exposure for mid tones, and your darker and lighter tones will fall into place properly. So you would:

1. meter off the grey card, setting it to what it tells you is the normal reading
2. compose your image
3. shoot

Now keep in mind that when I speak about making adjustments to your exposure this is only if you do not have a grey card and need to meter without one. You could change the shutter speed to let in more or less light, or change the aperture setting or even the ISO speed. They all work in conjunction with each other. Shutter speed was just the quickest way for me to show you when shooting the test samples.

To elaborate a bit more..... in the example of white.... if you were out on a snowy day and did not have a grey card with you, and you took a picture of this snowy scene, if you used your camera in Auto mode, or even just followed the meters advice in manual mode and set it to what the meter says is the normal exposure you would end up with a grey snow..... by changing the shutter speed or aperture to let in more light, you would be assuring yourself that the snow would look white in the final image.

As far as a pattern of numbers..... I agree that it may not always be so easy to see the pattern, and this is because the numbers are not always exactly doubled but close to it.... I'll see what I can do to make a STOPs guide that will help a bit more I think. But if you can multiply and divide by the number 2 that is all you need to know! I swear!!!

Now let me ask you a question..... does your camera measure stops in 1/3 or 1/2 increments? There should be a place in your manual that says this. And usually you can, in the camera settings change this..... I ask because the answer will tell me whether you do two clicks or three clicks to increase or decrease to the next stop.

Tom a white card is no good for measuring exposure.... that would be used for white balance which has to do with the color temperature of the light and how you want the camera to perceive and process it. White balance and exposure are two totally different things. White balance is comparable to film in that there are films made for daylight and films made for use with tungsten lighting.....

Message edited on: 03/18/2005 06:24

very informative tut here michelle. maybe it should be added to the rescource centre.

Dammit Shell, you MUST be good! I sorta understood it!! So, let me get this right - the key to the whole damn thing is using a light meter, innit?!? erm. I think. (",) p.s. This goes above and beyond the call of duty. Gold Star my little chickadee!

Michelle, thanks so much for elaborating!!!! You are sooooo sweeet!!!! my cam measures stops in 1/3 increments. i wish i could watch what you do when you say "meter off the grey card". i don't have a grey card. i just make manual adjustments with exposure Michelle. i don't think about the numbers too much. i just change the settings. what are "clicks?" that's not in our photo dictionary in the resource center. i hear that word a lot but never understood what it is. it's used in a lot of articles i read. is that just like changing the setting or something? thanks so much again!!! i'll keep coming back to this and reading. and i have some short articles that it explain it too. i'll just keep at trying to understand it!!!! thanks for your help!!!!!!! :)

On my camera I have a little wheel that I spin to adjust aperture or shutter speed. You can feel it kind of click when you turn it.... and of course you can see the bars in the viewfinder move 1, 2, 3.... So in my case I'm using 1/3 stop increments.... I can feel and see click, click, click.... I know I've just changed my exposure by one full stop. I know that you'll understand all of this eventually! Meter off the grey card.... put it in front of your lens, and peek through the view finder..... make it be the only thing you see in there..... now check your meter reading.... if it say it'll be over exposed or under exposed adjust it so that it says it'll be properly exposed (this is the normal exposure).... Now you can shoot.... If you're in Auto mode.... just use the AE lock to keep the exposure settings where you want them, because as soon as you take the grey card away from the lens they'll change on you!

Just a note ... don't want to throw confusion into the mix; so if the 18% gray card works for you then don't worry about reading any further.

If, however, you use the 18% gray card method of metering and find that your images are a little underexposed for your tastes, try metering with the grey card and then adding +1/3 to +1/2 stop to the exposure.

This use to bug the crap out of me when I first started using gray and white cards. One day I researched into it and found out that almost all camera and meter manufacturers use the ANSI standard to calibrate. The ANSI stardard is an ~12% luminance reflectance. Of course, then I had to find out where the hell 18% came from. No one seems to want to say for sure, but it may be one of those numbers like 72-dpi for monitors. A holdover from another segment of imaging (possibly the print industry).

To really throw garbage into the mix, it appears that some vendors have chosen to define their own interpretation of the ANSI standard (what good is an interpreted standard?) and can be using anywhere from 12%-15% ... ah, progress.

Again, if you're noticing a little underexposure, don't assume you're doing it wrong. Try setting your exposure compensation to +1/3 or +1/2 and see if that suits you better.

-=>Donald

erm... 'Chelle.... I can't find any of these things on my camera.... All I seem to have is a square cutout hole with silver foil in it, which has a tiny hole in the middle...... How do I set the exposure?!? Seriously though, I've just found a teeny weeny button on my digi marked AE.L which I've NEVER used before coz I didn't know what it was.... NOW I KNOW!!! I swear, I'm gonna fly over there and give ya a big kiss ;-) (",)

Erm...sorry to be a pain but, Michelle, I have another silly question for u: where the hell do u find that bloody meter reading?? Do u mean the histogram?? Or is it something totally different??

Totally different..... Does you camera have a viewfinder that you can look through? There's usually a little exposure meter visible when looking through the eye piece.... Sort of looks like a line with bars. the middle line is the longest indicating the normal exposure and then there other smaller bars, with a + - on either end..... If you camera is totally automatic...... then there might not be one....

Yeah Donald I'm trying to keep things nice and simple.... I've read of 12% luminance before.... for some reason I keep thinking it may have been in one of A Adams books???? Or possibly just somewhere on the web.... I usually over expose by 1/3 stop myself.....

Mmmmh! My cam can also be set to manual, however, I can't see that line nowhere! :(

Tibs, does it have a funny grey blob in the middle of the picture with a split circle in the middle? (",)

??? Nope! I checked my manual and there's definitely no meter reading or maybe I missed that part somewhere?! All I have to check my exposure with is the histogram! I'm SO frustrated right now!!! :( And I thought I had a fantastic cam!!! Man!! The more I learn about photography the more I think it's shit!! Well, not quite but there's definitely things missing in there, like the RAW option and now the meter reading! Grrrrrrrr! I still love it though! Oh well!

"there is a line along the bottom for altering exposure in 3rd stop increments to under/overexpose." Onslow thats it! Thats the meter! They don't all look the same I can only describe how mine looks.... even my very old Minolta D7 from about 5 years ago, has an exposure meter reading inside the viewfinder... I can't imagine having manual exposure mode and not having a meter somewhere to see the reading...... Pascale what camera are you using??? I know you said what it was before but I forgot....

Sony cybershot DSC F717 Michelle!!

ugh - Deja Vue...... (",)

Hehe! ;)

'chelle - Yea. Adams was one of the top crusaders for 18% although I can't ever remember anywhere where he backed up why he was so sure 18% was the proper number. He also spoke of a "K factor" that you might have to apply to your meter to make it right. They still argue today about what the "K factor" was that he was talking about. All the stuff I've read, I tend to think it had to do with the conversion between metric and standard. But who knows. Anyway, I do what it sounds like you do. Figured out over a few shots that I need to open up 1/2 stop over 18% gray reading for my 10D.

Just so valuable. Thanks. Be in resources very soon.

Working on the finishing touches now Doug.... will have it to you soon!

i'm sooooooooo, sooooooooo excited!!! As i said in that other thread, i also have a Sony like Pascale except it's an F828, and you CANNOT make EV adjustments in manual mode!!!!! thank GOODNESS you posted that other thread and now i FINALLY understand why none of this stuff about clicks and stops made sense!!!!! Yippppppeeeeee! Now we're on the same wavelength!!!!!!!! THANKSSSSSSSSS!!!!!