From digitalart.com and cgtalk. Most members of both sites, especially the former are pretentious stuck up scruffy looking nerf herders who wouldn't know the true idea of an art community as a place of learning if it bit them on the ass and think that the meaning of helpful criticism seems to rely on as few syllables as is possible without any insightful, constructive or at least meaningful comments. I'm staying right here where I know that even if I don't agree with the comments and suggestions, you at least have an IQ over 80. Thanks friends. Goodnight.

180 to be exact...;]

I'm behind you 100%, Phil. Anyone who actually uses the term 'nerf herfer' deserves my support. MoonGoat (Feels the same way with InnerTraveler)

sorry to hear it (the CGTalk aspect that is) the cinema4D group over there has been very helpfull and generally pretty cool. I'm usually over there during my lunch as the company blocks 'rosity due to art site/nudity. Just wanted to point out that they're not all nerf herders (grin).

nerf herder, what exactly is that? Nerf's, they're those blue thingies aren't they, wait no, they're smurfs...hence my question....

It takes about 10 nerfs to make a football... Anyhow, not all CGtalk is bad. You just have to watch out in the areas of finished renders and competition type stuff. (Yep, those areas are a bit biased to those who do this for a living and usually have a team behind them half the time.) I find that there are cool people in the modeling and Wings3d forums there. Not to mention there is some really neat stuff that I wouldn't get to see otherwise.

Actually,.......67,.........glad you're staying here though.

Phil i haven't been back there since i sent an IM to one of the Admin telling him that the admin and most members of that 2nd site were Male chicken heads(use another word for male chicken) and they have no idea on how to help new people with any aspect of 3d imaging. By the way i agree with you about this site, i have only found one or two that have an IQ below 80, not bad considering the amount of members on here :)

How 'bout 140?? ;)

Scruffy looking nerfherders, oh goody that dates back from a time when you could look at Star Wars without this burning sensation in your eyes. Admit it she was cute then. I still take a peek now and then at GCTalk, with an enormous concrete plate before my head (i should do that more often, or less, i don't know). It maybe a bunch of nerfherders but there is much to drool over there :)

We are not here to stroke our oversized egos by picking your work apart like vultures.............are we? I don't know my IQ, but if it goes down with every spanker I twist up, then I must be in the negative numbers by now.

IQ.......nil, satisfaction with the the help and encouragement from the members of the bryce forum here on R'osity --- 1000%. Big Cheers 8-))) GG.

...before I donate it to my friends pc. Glad to have ya still here, Phillip. ;o) AS

Actually i refrase my last statement.

After sitting back and giving it some deep thought this site/community isn't really that much different from CGTalk or digitalart.com.
Now i don't really care if i upset or i don't upset anyone with this post.
I'm going on my own experience here. When ever i have asked how to do something in bryce i get told to use another program like wings3d,blender or some other modelling program.
When i have asked how to improve an image i get told use PS or PSP, no matter how many times i remind people i don't have either one. even when i post that in the same thread the image is in people on here still tell me to use one of them.
When i have asked for help using bryce to model with i get told to look for a link or a posting in the forum on it.

Now to me that isn't helping out new members or users to bryce and you all wonder why people leave this community or stop using bryce. If they carry on using bryce they end up doing images with spheres floating above water or a terrain, why? you all should sit back and have a good think on where you started in bryce and what or who helped you get to where you are now with it.

Also when asked how to do something DON'T give a 1,2,3 there you go answer. short answers with no instructions(screenshots) never teaches anyone.

CD
(Getting p'ed at the help others get on here. clique, clique.)

Message edited on: 03/23/2005 23:35

Dunno my IQ number but it was enough to pass that Mensa test thingy...glad you're here Phil!!

I spent a little bit of time on cgtalk, but it never grabbed me the way this forum does. The intimacy of this forum and the willingness to take the time to help others is something that is not present in many areas of cgtalk. Of course some forums are exceptions (especially thee wings forum). To loosely quote long time brycer Steve Lareau (I think it was him), "The internet is not a thing. It is people, brought together by design and creativity." In response to CrazyDawg, im sorry that you feel you are not being helped as well as you could be. If people tell you to use wings then the issue is that it is impracticle to do in bryce. Wings is free so you have no excuse not to value their input. The issue is the same for the photoshop/psp issue. Most people use photoshop or PSP so they can only suggest it to you and figure out how they would do it. In most cases, you need something more substantial than microsoft paint. Have you tried the gimp? (free fully featured image editor) http://www.gimp.org/ If someone posts an old forum link in response to a question then they believe that it contains the information you need. It saves them time in having to restate everything when it has already been said quite nicely, usually more than once (Like trying to re-write a famous quote). If they tell you to look for a post, then they are too busy/lazy to hunt for it. And that's OK. The community is not your bitch. We are eager to help but you can't expect people to tailor their help to your exact infinitesimal desire. People spend a great deal of time responding to calls for help, providing multiple screenshots, and attempting to make their suggestions clear and repeatable. Much of what you seek in terms of bryce help requires insight. As you said, 1,2,3 forms of instruction are not ultimately effective. But typing is an ineffective tool for communicating anything more than instructions. If we were truly "teaching" bryce on the concept level then we would need to be able to interact one-on-one because it is entirely impractical explain detailed artistic concepts in type. Trust me, I've tried many times. Given this, the next step in the process needs to be taken on your side of the table. Given what people suggest, you need to think about what they are saying and how their process works. Experiencing these insights and in effect teaching yourself hands-on is the best way to learn bryce. I learned bryce by myself with no manual (educational version had no manual) for the first two years that I used it (bryce 3D and bryce 4). Having NO help pushed me to understand the tools and explore what did what and when to use the right thing. No one thinks the way you can, so you must think for yourself. If you truly feel that the information you are getting is NOT at all helpful, perhaps you need to be more specific in your questioning. Every thread gets at least 6 replies so I know that people are answering your questions. I like to think of help as an added benefit. Post with the expectation that no one knows and then keep working at it. Then allow yourself to be happy when someone gives you the advice you need. I had a similar view of the forum about a year ago and I left until just recently. I felt that people did not give credit where it was deserved, and got to thinking that the forum members were a bunch of secret-handshaking conspirators (not THAT bad, but I was mad). The year-long hiatus I took made me forget these ultimately false conceptions and now that I am back I find everyone very helpful and very open. Much more than I remember. I hope this helps you out. :)

LMAO@ Madmax- "The community is not your bitch." now I'm really upset, I so thought I had that here! (just kiddin) ;P In a small support of Crazydawg, there have been a couple of threads where a newbie asked a newbie question and some people seemed (in my opinion) way too harsh. One was told to look at the manual. Not all legal purchases of Bryce came with manuals. I was very surprised to find that out when I purchased my copy as an education one. So for the most part I disagree with Crazydawg, cause 98% of the time, great help is offered and lots of people go out of their way to help. But occaisionally I have seen some nasty replies (2%). Its the old 'don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch'. I love it here!

In the cold hard light of day (and wanting to rush off to bed to watch CSI New York, WHICH I fell asleep through), I can add a little more. CGTalk wasn't the reason for the post, but I have met with quite a lot of Anti-Bryce stuff in there and so don't and won't bother posting until at least a percentage of users appreciate that Bryce can do some really good things. SO I grouped that into my distress. The comment in digitalart that started this was for a picture that I rendered, maybe, 5 years ago and posted 3 years ago. Granted it's not a great picture, but that was at the start of my Bryce rollercoaster. What upset me was that some person has trawled through the gallery, and for a picture that old it's quite an effort, purely so he can make detrimental, unhelpful comments. The comment was: HORABLE! One word, although he stretched it out to hooorrraaaabbbbbllleeeee. No qualification, no suggestion, just one misspelt word. That does no one any good, not me not him and not anyone else that happens to come across the picture. I don't need that. renderosity and 3dcommune may not always please everyone, but out of all the forums, I'm happiest in those two. I feel I need to grace CD with a comment. I know how you feel. If people ask a question, then it means they probably don't know the answer. but a forum is a tricky place to give a detailed list of instructions. It takes time to explain something properly and we're lucky that sometimes people do take the time. Answers in the forum I see more as pointers to the answers. Nudges in the right direction, rather than a definitive solution. Sorry that my slight distress and post evoked such emotion from you. OK, I'm over it now. Going to remove my pictures (maybe the ones that have bad comments at least :-) and then have a cup of tea.

Crazydawgs moan about the help he gets on this forum really p.....d me off. Doing a search, (yes, I felt that strongly about it) I came up with only one request for feedback on a WIP, which was answered without any mention of Wings, PSP etc. and a request for a tut, which got a reply. What more do you want, CD? This is the most helpful forum Ive ever seen. Madmaxs reply was a model of good sense and reason, but just lately Ive been very disillusioned by the goings on in this forum and others on Rendo. Im not going to throw the dummy and close my gallery, etc. but doubt Ill add to it and its been some time since I felt the need to join in here.

(the 2 things that are the ONLY motives for human action, "to seek pleasure and avoid pain") I've had similar experiences in all venues, leaving me with the need to heal or correct what I feel has been done to me. Truth in the matter, I'm still here with all my fingers & toes, still creating, and if nothing else reflective of the situation that has in my perception threatened my comfort zone. Honestly, it was a risk to put myself in the situation in the first place. Every time we seek the pleasure of recognition we enter an enviroment of risk and the 50/50 chance of rejection (perception only) and pain. Our initial, usually kneejerk reaction is to strike back regardless of the form and correct the wrong feeling. In other words "Those guys are a**holes", there now I feel much better. The humorous part about it is that now you have actually struck out intentionally to injure in order to heal. (OH, what a tangled web we weave) I've also caught myself in the opposite role from time to time, and realized it was not intentional, My motivations were not to purposely hurt that persons feelings, yet it happens when my focus is on giving of myself the "good samritan" feeling. Lets face it, when you help someone it feels good, even if you're not consciously seeking the recognition for self serving purpose. It's conditioning. So I helped him out, yet his perception is different than mine and his feelings are hurt now due to the fact he did not experience his pre-concieved idea of attention or recognition. Communication is crucial to honest intention, here in a virtual (text) enviroment, so much gets lost in transition with the lack of emotional content. Not to mention the cultural and maturity scale here. Please take a step back each time you feel emotionally disrupted in this enviroment, assess the situation, mull it over, do what ever you have to, to get to the realization that your art work is important to you only, and it makes you feel good to share and recieve recognition. What you momentarily percieve as callous cold hearted rejection may or may not be real, but it will pass. Here's the kicker: This forum (as with many others) has the acclaim of wonderful people willing to share an emotional expression with others, knowing they will recieve in kind. The motive here is the sharing and recieving. All you guys ROCK!! Thanks for sharing ICM ROD

They drink TEA in the USA? :-0

I do. Tetley no less.

Drinking tea in the USA!!! I guess you can take the Brit out of Britian, but you can't take the Britian out of the Brit! Despite our propensity for war...we can be somewhat civilized at times here in the US.

I drink tea all the time .. ICED tea that is. ;-) yeah, over at CGTalk Bryce and Poser, esp Poser are looked down on like a "red-headed step child", not a "real" 3D program. Rochr has changed a few minds with his posts and has blown people away when they see it was done 100% with Bryce, but they still view Bryce as a landscape only program.

..scruffy-looking Nerf Herder!
I am NOT scuffy-looking!
Star Wars (1st, Episode 4)..;)
Mensa IQ's I think are 160 and up (I'm only about 121, so what do I know..;)
We have, in the South, an ambrosial nectar known as 'sweet iced tea'..that here (at least), you can get in unlimited quantities in most restraunts..;) We don't dump all of it in Boston harbor..;)

i like the daily sketch forum at cgtalk that is fun too just as the bryce forum here is.

Hey drawbrigdep!..since you are living in Indiana, you should try out one of those tasty Indiana delicasies, "brain sammiches". MMMMMMM.......not sure if they will increase the IQ, but it will leave you with a special taste in yer pie hole! :o)