While doing some late night surfing I happened to come across the following thread at Renderotica. http://www.renderotica.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12361&Form.ShowMessage=87450&Reply=87715#45 There are no images in that thread, no porno, it is a discussion only. For those that would rather not venture to Renderosity to view the thread, I have included the full text of the 3 posts in the thread following this post. This thread started as a bunch of ideas to "save" Renderotica, which apparently is in serious financial difficulty. Several people expressed views that I want to CLEARLY STATE are NOT my views. The reason I bring this up is because several posts by Thorne, Diane Thuregrif and Jack D. Kammerer voiced some concerns about the quality of items for sale in Renderosity's store. This made me pause, since I have been considering purchasing several items from the Online Store. According to Diane, items sold in the Renderosity store are untested and the quality is {{"...really bad"}}. She claims JeffH, commented that most of the items in the store belong in free stuff. Jack claims there are products in the store that are actually the work of someone other than the seller and Renderosity will not remove said products unless contacted by the originator of the item. Jack also claims that the Renderosity Online Store is a {{"...dumping ground..."}} for items who's value {{"...has turned to shit..."}}, in fact he states that the quality of items in the store {{"...is about 75-90% shit..."}}, because those in charge of items that go into the store {{"...don't take time to monitor it, test it to make sure it works or is even HALFWAY DECENT..."}} Jack and Diane's comments trouble me. As a consumer that frequently purchases products over the internet I want to be sure I am dealing with a reputable source, and I am puchasing quality products. In the case of Poser figures, I want to be absolutely certain that the product I am getting is worth the price and if not, I'll make do with a similar item that might be available for free from here or any number of other sites like Poser World, or 3D World for example. Apparently, Thorne, Jack, and Diane are respected and valued members of the community. And apparently, Jack and Diane were an integral part of Renderosity, in some way responsible for creating the store here, and establishing standards of quality for products that were strictly adhered to, so one has to give pause when they raise an alarm. At the same time, one has to wonder, because Jack and Diane also have created an online store at 3D Commune, their commmunity, in competition with the store here, so how much is truth and how much is "speculation" intended to draw sales away from Renderosity to 3D Commune? Now, I am bringing this up ONLY because I care about Renderosity, and I care about the community, and I care about the reputation of both this site and those members that create products for sale. I do NOT care to start another useless flame war between "us and them". There have been serious questions raised that need answers, and I trust JeffH and Renderosity's Team to be able to respond thoughtfully and openly. If there are problems because product testing cannot be done, I would gladly volunteer my time to test and evaluate products and I'm sure others will too. I think amost of us, would do just about anything to help make this site the Premier Artists Community on the internet. So that brings us down to these questions: 1. Are products for sale in the store tested for quality and value prior to being offered? 2. Are there submission standards and guidelines that products must adhere to before being chosen to be placed onsale? 3. If a product turns out to be the work of someone other than the submittor, what steps are taken to insure the product is distributable by that person, and what action is taken if it turns out the product was actually the work of someone other than the submittor and the submittor did not have permission from the originator to offer that product for sale? Now...I ask that EVERYONE NOT TURN THIS THREAD INTO FLAME WAR. If you have constructive comments pro or con, that's one thing...if you have destructive comments to make about any of the persons mentioned in this thread, make them somewhere else.

1. Great Idea! by Thorne on 01/19 07:57 That's a great idea! But whatever happens, and no offense to anyone, just callin' 'em like I see 'em, DO NOT become like that other site with a similar name which has turned into "everything gonna cost you"- No more free links there, gotta be in the webring, which if you do not refer enough people to the homesite might just drop you altogether. And, "Here's a NEW service! Free for now, gonna cost ya later!" And flooding their store with quite frankly second-rate merchandise because everybody got something to sell and what do they care, a bad modeler's 50% is as good as any actually GOOD modeler's 50%.... That's my 50% worth. =};-}> 36. Re: WHERE RENDEROTICA STANDS RIGHT NOW... by DTHUREGRIF on 01/19 14:03 We're REALLY trying to avoid that, Thorne. And I'm glad somebody said something about the quality of the stuff in the store over "there". It's getting really bad. But like you said, "what do they care?" They don't test that stuff before they put it up from what I hear (from reputable sources), and it looks like they will accept anything. Even JeffH (their staunchest supporter) made a comment that most of it belongs in free stuff. :-) I just hope that people aren't really buying that stuff. Not that there isn't some terrific stuff there, it's just getting buried. 37. YOU ARE RIGHT THORNE!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT!!!!! by Jack D. Kammerer on 01/19 14:29 Thorne, You are absolutely right! Back when I opened the online store over there, a very dear woman by the name of RenaPD once suggested if the store wasn't monitored that it would become a trashy place. I wish she could read this(she don't come to Renderotica) but she was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! None of those products in that store are tested by anyone, before being made available to the consumer... it's BUYER BEWARE... spend your money and hope you don't get fucked. In fact, because of the lack of monitoring that goes on there, I have seen some product put up by members trying to sell other people's work and then it becomes the responsiblity of the person's who's product is sold without permission, has to contact Renderosity, THEN it get's pulled down.... Another thing you pointed out, Thorne, the value of the stuff there has turned to shit... looks like a dumping ground over there, which not only make's Renderosity look like money grubbing bastards (not saying if they are or not), but also seriously makes other RESPECTABLE Brokered Artist's stuff look shitty... for example, sit at a dinner table, and on a plate in front of you is a nice, juicy steak sitting in front of you prepared by... let's say you, or maybe Syyd or another respectable artist who provide quality... and on a plate next to you is a plate of SHIT prepared by a less experienced cook, or in this case a modeller. NO MATTER how hungery you are for that steak, you just aren't going to eat it, at least not from a resturant that also serves a plate full of steaming shit... What I am trying to say is this... the qaulity of stuff over there, is about 75-90% shit. Why? Because they don't take time to monitor it, test it to make sure it works or is even HALFWAY DECENT and because anyone can take a DUMP over there, slap it on a plate and sell it to the Community. And for that reason, it takes money from those that DO SPEND TIME BUSTING THEIR ASSES TO MAKE THE BEST PRODUCTS POSSIBLE!! Sure, Product gets to that store faster than ours... ah, but once you buy it from there are you sure it's going to work?? Personally, if I wanted to purchase something, I would go to a place that took time to make sure it worked and was worth the value asked for it. Rather from people that didn't care about anything other than lining their pockets... Just my thoughts as a consumer... and business person... Jack

Attached Link: http://www.renderotica.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12361&Form.ShowMessage=87450&Reply=87715#45

Here is a direct link to the message for those that wish to view the entire thread.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=217287

This very topic is currently being debated in the Community Improvement forum. I have posted a thread for those who choose to participate. Another recent change to address this same issue is the addition of a private forum for Renderosity store contributors so that they can collaborate with other store contributors and admins to constantly improve the quality of products available in the store. Tim

It's interesting to me to note that many of the people who are presumably being included in the "75% is shit" are the same posters in the stores at both sites. Slapping the faces of the people you want to attract to your establishment isn't precisely good business sense.

I have never once received a complaint about anything I sell. All items I sell are first tested on three computers and then sent to others for testing. The only e-mails I have received from purchasers have been complemetary. Not only that I am a purchaser of others works. I can say with out a doubt that all items I have purchased have been excellent. In fact they exceed the quality of most stuff I have purchased from Zygote.

It's interesting to note, that upon reviewing 113 posts in the Store Contact Forum, I could not find 1 post complaining about the quality of any purchased item. Most of the posts had to do with download problems and there were a few referring to missing items in zips, and those were handled quickly and to the satisfaction of those that posted. Download problems are a not unusual on the internet and the store contacts and sellers seem to go to great lengths to help people solve those problems. Missing files from zips is somewhat of a quality issue, and more care needs to be given to ensuring that all files are present before an item is posted...but this is such a small percentage when compared to the tremendous number of items available from the store that it is not all alarming. To note: again the store contacts and sellers go to great length to resolve these problems quickly and to the satisfaction of the purchaser. It would seem to me that those making blanket statements about the poor quality and usability of items in the store are basing those statements on assumptions and not on facts.

I agree, from all I see, but I'm just one little bitty on a forum of many upon many. However, any thread I ever see on Renderosity that has any kinda question about store items is answered quickly and professionally, quite impressive to me to say the least and good customer service which it should well be. Heck, this even happens when the customer asks it in the completely WRONG forum! Seems the folks here go out of their way to help the customers whatever way they can. Excuse my incredible ignorant backwoods state of mind but I suppose none of you nice folk could tell me WHY these blanket statements and assumptions might have been based at all in the first place??? I reckon I just don't understand. Not a flame, just my real curious mind that needs plenty of learning so it seems. Call me simple minded, but I just can't figure. But I can't figure on a lot of things so don't mind me, heh.

The people making discouraging statements about the products in the Renderosity store are doing so with a motive - they wish to drum up business for their store. Bad business practice wouldn't you say? It's best to express what is good about your own product without resorting to bashing the competition. -JH.

Well darn, ya know, I do agree. That's why I wrote more bout this in the "ideas" forum, kinda gives merit ta some of the stuff I suggested. Ah do hope it helps, that's all it's there for. All in all though, I do declare that I can't remember any succesfull place of business making good by goin' outta their way to please the competion, no matter how much they may rant about ya and call ya names. It's the customers that matter not your similar store and how they may do their sellin' or how they think ya should do yar stuff. Same token, spending all yar time blabberin' about how bad yar neighbor is practicing their business don't create more customers for ya, spending time making your CUSTOMERS happy and loyal is what creates more customers and makes them COME BACK.

"Bad business practice wouldn't you say? " Indeed Jeff... on three counts: Slamming the competetion creates equal or better name recognition for them - 1st year advertising and marketing. Since a lot of us post in both - slapping us in the face drives off the very people they need to have list in their store Raising major doubts about this drives customers away from both stores - the customers can look at the vendors names and go - "Hey these are the same people they just said did crap over here too! I'll go elsewere" Customers aren't nearly as stupid as advertisers like to believe. If we do good work, then people will buy and come back.

Heh, this reminds me of a kid in school that lets out a big brappin' fart that stinks ta high heaven and then points to the kid next ta him and yells at the top of his lungs, "he did it! Hehehehe, cute detention getter when your a youngun, bad for business when ya get older and try runnin' yar business the same ways.

Do yas see a lot of customer complaints anywhere's? Just wondering what made ya think ta ask this, I been actually lookin' and I don't see much of anything that shows such bad products making any waves. If ya don't want ta buy it don't. Ya know how many times I see stuff at the general store I wonder about, an why anyone would even buy it? But then there might be someone else that actually likes the stuff. Same goes for food, or cars or clothes. Folks differ, Just cause you may not like mushrooms with yar spaghetti don't mean I don't or someone else don't. They call me the LoneRanger

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=282

Well, RagingWolf you can find the basic contract and submission guidelines at the supplied link. As to your questioning if products have to work before they're accepted, yes they do and testing is done to ensure that is the case, the guidelines specifically state: {{Uploaded files will be previewed by the staff before being made generally available to the public to ensure they actually deliver what is promised and include the license.html file.}} Even though there are items you personally would not pay for, that does not mean others won't. Whether or not you would pay for them has nothing to do with their quality. Last I heard a test to see if RagingWolf would purchase them was not a standard quality test needed for any submitted items. The point is, the merchandise being sold actually "works" and is useful to those that purchase it. Items that don't sell, for whatever reason, don't stay in the store. It's easy to generalize, and it's easy to label something as poor quality just because you don't happen to like it or think it's worth buying. The fact is, if mechandise where not living up to it's promises, or was of poor quality, there would be complaints about those items posted on this site and others. Fact is, complaints about Victoria, sold by Zygote have frequently been posted...complaints about merchanise purchased from this online store are extremely rare. That, more than anything else, says that items purchased from this store are quality items, that work the way they were promised to work, and that Renderosity is doing the proper testing and quality assurance.

Just wondering why your friend is not the one doin' the complainin'? Or why your friend didn't say something in the store contact area if it is so bad as you say. Again, ya know, no one is forcefeeding ya shit here, it's all a matter of choice. You have a right to yar opinion, sure, but I'd like ta see how nice folks would treat ya if ya went into Wallmart or any kinda store full of folks and started shouting about how your an expert and ya don't feel that much in there is worth the shelf it sits on. The day I see some salesman follow me around this forum trying too hard ta sell me something or some buck tries ta force me ta get something I don't want is the day I may wanna side with ya. But that ain't happenin' nohow. All I see is folks from elsewhere whining and cursing this place or talking in the name of their hard done friends that don't seem ta have the guts ta speak for themselves. I have yet ta see some red devil tryin' ta sell my soul here or some enticing babe with a pimp tryin' ta pick me up, when I do, I will worry like hell, but I still won't need ya ta tell me, some of us may look stupid, but we're not really. They call me the LoneRanger

I declare, that's a real good point Illusions. I suppose this Raging Wolf and those other folks that have so much ta say bout this place and it's poor quality will really have a problem with Zygote when they find out how much folks have complained bout that thar Millie character in the past. Hooey, shut them down, they be bad, just wanna make a fast buck! Of course, ya knows right well I am just jesting profusely but ya see how darn silly ya sound by doin this all?? Uh, why are ya doin'it anyhow? What's the point, ah still don't get it nohow. They call me the LoneRanger

Ragingwolf...sorry to hear that your friend had some bad experiences with merchandise here. When did your friend purchase those items? Did your friend contact the sellers or the store moderators? What didn't work and what kind of problems was he having installing them? Which 5 items was it that your friend was not able to install? It would certainly be helpful to the community if you provided this information so we could investigate. Again, just because you feel something isn't worth paying the price for, doesn't mean it isn't worth the price.

Ragingwolf, I have a feeling your "friend" doesn't exist ;-) If a texture doesn't load correctly or work properly it's because of USER ERROR, not the fault of the author. I did a user clone on your nickname, you have posted here before under several different names and identities in the past. If you're going to make accusations please use your real name. -JH.

Thanks Mark, or is that Marc? You don't seem spell it the same way consistantly. What is your interest in Renderosity and the Store? In other threads on this site you claim to be a Forum Site owner. What site would that be? You say your "friend" purchased a texture from the store, but then you say: "We loaded it and looked at it then put it away" Does that mean your friend gave you the texture without a second purchase being made? I believe that's a violation of the license agreement. Maybe you would like to explain that? -JH.

Oh, one more thing. Your old nickname was "WarDance". I DO know what I'm talking about. -JH.

Guess I should finish making my point. Remember the old Kevin Bacon game? It goes something like this: Ragingwolf--->WarDance---> ElectronicErotica WebRing--->Omni3D--->Stormrage--->Renderotica--->3DCommune... See what I'm getting at? Yeah, I'm calling your motives and credibility into question.

Hooey! Looks like a puzzle, or some kinda roadmap. Only thing is JeffH, when ah tried ta follow it ah ended up with a roadblock so's I can't finish the game, my poor tired horse just darn refused ta jump that high over any spiked fence. Kinda feel left out, hope there ain't some rare prize ahm missin' out on. Oh well, ah don't mind much. With a wall like that the place might be an ambush anyhow so's maybe best. I'm way too bushed for scrappin' up a storm or getting jackhammered by restless injuns with poison arrows. Looks like a boss game though, if ya's got the open ground and yammering ta dodge the natives, heh. Hio Silver...away.............riding sure is hard on the butt, especially on an ass like mine that keeps thinking it's a horse, heh.

Heh, that's okay, RW knows what I'm talking about.

GEEZ! Make one little innocent statement and cause World War III!!! I had exactly ONE post in that thread until I just posted the following: ORIGINALLY POSTED AT RENDEROTICA: ("there" referring to here.) I did not say all the stuff there was second-rate, I did NOT use the "S" word to describe it, nor did I say 75 to 90%. I recently purchased a very nice, medium priced model from the store over there and was quite pleased with it. The problem seems to be, and this comes from discussing this with vendors still in the R'osity Online Store many of whom are my good friends, that they feel their sales are being diluted by so many products being offered that are, be offended or not, quite frankly "not up to snuff". Absolutely nothing wrong with selling your good merchandise and making a profit from it. However, and this is just my studied opinion and my personal preference, more buyers, including myself, would rather know that there is a high standard maintained and that they can be reasonably assured of quality, technical support, and a good return policy on defective merchandise. Anyway, to name vendor's names would have been just another way to cause more hard feelings, which I try not to be in the business of doing, Mr Cook. Instead, I just won't purchase those things, like many others will not who are silent about it. Perhaps if you feel I should, I will post this same message at R'osity. Altogether now, everybody play nice!!!! Thorne =};-}> ------------------------ Thank you all for being so passionate about your art!!! I'm gonna go play now. Y'all have a wonderful day!!!

Oh yeah, P.S. and BTW, I am not "the competition" as referring to the 3d commune store. Since leaving the store here, I put one character up for sale at 3dCommune, and one at BBay.com. If Tim wants to here my ideas about what would make this a better store, I would be glad to share them with him, and glad to meet with him in person to discuss it, just as we have done in the past. Please take my statements at face value, do not read others words into MY intent. Thank you all again! Thorne

okay, one more time- Yeah, uh, I did use the term "second rate". Just didn't say "shit". Recently I discussed this with a vendor here who does very good work- You see, I know that there are many, like myself, who pour their heart and soul into making something of quality and spend countless sleepless hours doing so. Many of those vendors are right here in this store, so this is for their sake too, not about being a "competitor" for crying out loud. I don't come here, or anywhere else much anymore, but drop in occasionally or when someone tells me there is something here I should see. I do see vendors who spent a lot of time and dedication here with quality merchandise selling for the same price as someone who maybe whipped out a cheapie in two hours for the same price. This hurts the vendors who are dedicated to quality by undercutting their sales. Perhaps a user's scorecard for items purchased? Just an idea. Okay, I swear I'll shut up now. (till next time ;o))

Thorne, I don't think anyone blamed you for the storm that erupted. Sure you made the original post, but all you did was open the door for the true Renderosity haters to get out the BIG stick and start stirring things up, again. You're always welcome here. :) Russell

Thank you Russell, I appreciate that. It certainly wasn't my intent to start trouble- guess I should be more careful. I just posted another long one over there, a new post, pretty much trying to clarify and calm things down. And guess what? I named names! Hahahaha! Wait till you see.... (it's good, not bad, honest!) Thorne =};-}>

Well don't that just beat all. Why is it always the good pokes that gotta apoligise and feel bad for the ruffins that happened when they's not the ones that doo'd nuttin bad. Meanwhile the imps and goblins types gets ta scurry off without any dander. Some bloke pinches a fairy, not the fairy that should feel sorry nun, but the pincher who dun do the pinchin'. This way the fairy gets hurt both ways, gettin' pinched and then feelin' bad and takin' blame for the darn pinchin', shame, shame, shame! And the darn bullies always get away to come back and pinch another day.

I for one, read the original thread and had the good sense to seperate Thorne from the rest of them. I must agree that there are certainly items in the store, or at least used to be, I haven't looked in a while (Doesn't do me any good, no credit card...) But I do think that some of the stuff that graces the store are much more suited to freestuff. However, I am of the opinion that MOST things should be free. Totally new meshes that conform properly to exisiting models are good canidates for a store. Textures, morphs, assembled characters and non-complex props should be free for all. But that's just my opinion. However, the snide way they handled everything over there was way out of line, dishonorable etc...but I think Jack did end up backtracking in that thread. Though, I guess it's clear the damage was done regardless of intent. One more thing: RagingWolf: If you are truly Stormrage, then I must say that I am very, deeply disappointed in you as a human being. I've had many run-ins with you as Stormrage, and I felt quite strongly that I didn't like you as a person. Another person I admire stuck up for you, and asked me to give you another chance, and I did. I over-rode my instincts and observations for you. Well, since that time you've managed to alienate that friend of yours and now here you are acting subversive and using false aliases here to try to drag this great place through the mud, and once and for all, I must say that you are a terrible, awful human being in my opinion, and if you think this is what it takes to conduct a business properly, then I for one have no interest in supporting it. If there has been some mistake, I apologize. Those remarks are made on the condition of the truth of these allegations. -Darth_Logice

Hot diggity dog, maybe them thar bullies aren't in the clear yet, but they doo run hard for them thar hills. Better fret they's don't make home fort cause then they can round up some new fairy pinchers and make another round of attacks. And they's liable ta use anything and anyone stands in their way till they's get a good pinch.

Darth, No one actually said RW is Stormrage. I'm just suggesting that there is an association between the two. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Even if RW was SR, it isn't our policy to say so in public. User's multiple personalities are there own business. -JH.

there = their

Hmmm. Okay. Nevertheless, very brow-raising association. -Darth

That thar would make a darn swell morph Darth, heh.

He's a classic passive aggressive case study. Hell. He's the poster boy for it ;-) Remember when we started posting picture's of ourself's to the galleries? We posted pics of us with loved ones,family, and some make it kinda artsy with special effects. Jack posted a picture of him holding his Gun! He was running this place at the time! Good Grief! If that isn't enough evidence of a guy who's got no clue how to run a business. I don't know what is. Yet people still insist on putting him positions of power. Human's are sooooo silly. ;-) ScottA

"User's multiple personalities are there own business. " Thank gods... I'd hate to be forced to associate with Guido or any of the other voices in my head, especially that Wraith fellow I play on the gaming boards. ;) Btw... after thinking it over while I cooled down, I have posted a notice to remove my remaining items from the Commune Store and that I wouldn't be contributing any new ones over there because of this. I really dislike that stance that was taken. Thorne, don't sweat it... it wasn't your comment that boiled me over, it was the ones that followed from people who were also asking for my wallet. You have the right to your opinion and I thought you stated it elegantly. No problems 'tween us. I know - one item, big whoop. It's the thought that counts.

Ah declare, according ta what ah see hereabouts, thars not much in the ways of fairies abouts ta pinch, but ah heard the distant drums from restless natives playin' an interestin' tune. It speak much of many fairies comin' real soon to the natives fort in the far away hills. The natives are wardancin' with delight at the sounds of this forsight. Surly now many hungers will be quenched and me an ma mule will be able ta ride safely once agin...hio Silver.......away!

Ah darn forgot ta mention.....they call me the LoneRanger.

The intent of this post was NOT to start a name-calling contest, a flame war, or to trade insults. I started this thread for 2 reasons. The First was to counter what, in my opinion, was a deliberate attempt to drain sales from here to line the pockets of others. The second was to open discussion about the quality of merchandise available here and find out if it was good or bad. I have not seen any facts to substantiate Jack's and Diane's comments and I don't expect that any facts about any specific merchandise that is sub-standard, will ever appear. Look, the fact is that whether or not the store has merchandise that is quintessentially unique or not is really a mute point. Whether the store is being flooded with merchandise that is on par with Free Stuff is irrelevant. If someone takes the time to make a product and they want to try to make a buck with it...what's the problem? Would Diane's and Jack's opinion of those very same items change if those items were offered to their store and all the proceeds from their sales given to them? You bet, your sweet ass they would!!!!! There are few stores in either the real world or the virtual world that doesn't have a variety of merchandise that ranges from the "ok" to the "exquisite". Why should our store be "elitist" and provide a showroom only for the "Masters"? Cream rises to the top, as the saying goes...and here the products that fill peoples needs, install properly, and operate properly are the products that will sell. The others will "fall by the wayside". What more could anyone ask for? All I ask, when see information about a product is that is either positive or negative, is that I get FACTS, not rumors, innuendos, or generalizations. Is that too much to expect from people that claim to be professionals and business persons? Again...I offer my services as a tester or even a product reviewer if Tim needs people to do that. In fact, I would even be willing to set up an independent testing group comprised of 4 or 5 dedicated people with modeling, texturing, posing, and animation experience if that would help.

Ahm not no professional, ahm not no business person, just a lowly cowdick that wanders aimlessly bouts on forums with ma lowly mule that thinks it's a horse. Ah declare ah gots not much in ma rags other than ma own instinct, and ma instinct is sayin' somethin's not kosher. Ah might have bin a professional one time ago but that time ebbs slowly outta me more and more till soon all ah gots left is ma loose teeth and ma lowly mule and ma slowly deteriatin' noggin. See I got horsewhipped and done in by a band of ruffians and it left me a might paralyzed from the neck up. Good thing ah can type some, and at least ah can still ride. And ma hearing and ma eyes is still darn good. Salutes....

Illusions, I think that a testing group... either in house or independant would be a fine idea. We'd need to set up a clear and simple rating system, and it would be helpful to have items given concise and accurate feedback for improvement - rather than just a flat yeah or nay.

I agree somewhat bear, but the site is already talking about setting up a member review system which would rate the merchandise. What I have in mind is more an "authentication" and "assurance" control group. A group of people that would test each product to make sure it contains all the files required for use, installs properly, works the way it's supposed to, doesn't "crash" Poser, renders without flaws or blemishes, etc. Ratings could be used to indicate the result of some tests. For example, the result of a "Poser load test" could have a rating of 1, 2, or 3: 1 - Loads with no problems or errors. 2 - Partial load. Calls for texture that can't be located. 3 - Does not load. Causes C Exception error Similar ratings could be done for results of texture mapping tests, joint movements, posing, scalability, etc. Props, textures, and morphs would have similar tests and a rated result. We would also provide feedback to the site or the submittor in the form of comments, make recommendations to improve performance, note any obvious or potential defects, etc. It might also be possible...if requested...to do a "subjective quality" review on an item, that is, rate products on aesthetic appeal, price point, ease of use, and any number of other issues. I don't really know if an overall quality review by 4 or 5 people in a group would really be fair, so I'm not too sure about the feasability of that. Testing results, could result in a "seal of approval" that carries a unique ID number specifically for that product, and a Rating of HQ - HiQuality, Q - Quality, anything less gets no "seal". The rating would reflect the results of testing; pass all the tests with flying colors get an HQ, average results get a Q, Low scores get no seal. That's just some thoughts I've been kicking around in my head. If there's enough interest in this maybe we ought to start a seperate thread about this topic.

Er... except on one thing. The review board needs to have people who are qualified in more than Poser. Some of us do Bryce materials and objects, 3D Models in other apps and textures for other programs as well. That rating system would work pretty well I think, it's simple and easily identifiable.

I agree with that bear, not all of the merchandise submitted is for Poser.

What is a DBA? Nevermind. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about anything, including SOP. Well, the fact that you both use the same computer is stranger than I was expecting ;-) I have nothing else to say, I think you've said it all. Jen knows where to find me. -JH.

Ragingwolf, you and anyone else is welcome to post CONSTRUCTIVE comments in this thread. You are also welcome to contribute experiences with merchandise purchased from here, as long as you provide facts to back up your experiences. We are looking for FACTS not opinions...opinions and comments without FACTS to substantiate them are not credible. Regardless of how highly you view your ability to determine what is quality and what is not, your subjective standards carry no weight here. So, I ask you once again: Which specific 5 items was your friend not able to install? When did your friend purchase those items? Did your friend contact the sellers or the store moderators regarding the problems? What didn't work and what kind of problem did he have installing them? It would certainly be helpful to the community if you provided this information so we could investigate.

How many cannibals do it take ta mek a meal? Three and a half. One ta rub the sticks thagether, one ta blow on tha flame ta mek it a fire and tha udder ta cook tha victim for tha meal. Tha halfling sits in back and demands an apology from the leftovers cause there weren't enough ta go around ta feed it after the udder three bigguns gobbled it all up. Lone Ranger

DBA - "Doing Business As" a company name alias registered with the State or County that you're doing business in. Kind of a poor man's incorporation. ;) Also requires a state tax number if your doing taxable sales bidness. I don't thing Stormrage is a terrible person - she happens to be a friend of mine, RagingWolf. You I don't know about either way.

Ya knows, pardon ma ignorance cause ahm just a plumb local with a stiff noggin. Ma pappy darn teld me many times thet when ya's gets ruffians swarmin' ya and mekin' a big heckle outta yer undergarmets then gets em back wit ther own medacine. Ah just can't be serius nun when ahm sein stuff ta mek me wrassle wit me insides not ta laff profoosly. Ah declare, if ah dont stop chucklin' me innards wil split at tha stitches ah got from tha whoopin' ah got. Ahs reaaly surry for ma lammering posts, bruised brane dos darn things, like ma stubburn muule. Dang getin' woorse fer ware tooo.

All I really care to add to this is to echo what Ron Molina said: "Not only that I am a purchaser of others works. I can say with out a doubt that all items I have purchased have been excellent. In fact they exceed the quality of most stuff I have purchased from Zygote." .................................. I've only bought a scant few items from here so far, but I will do so again, without fear, because I trust this place's integrity, and I trust the people who contribute, but even more so, I trust that anything NOT right will be taken care of. :) --Mike