okay, so I just can't figure out what went wrong. Here's my "wall":^^^^ So why am I so stupid?

Because, this ^^^ is what it SHOULD look like.

1. Scale of the texture? 2) the latter picture looks like a lattice. Notice the ragged left edge. You can't get that with just bump. Or I'm mis-seeing things? Can you post the address of the tutorial?

Take heart, imho, the DTE is THE most complex thing about Bryce. Don't beat yourself up. I had to take many a run at the dte over a year to get the smallest hold on it. AS

you're doing just fine. I'm still tweaking existing ones...keep at it..

increase frequency of texture. Also notice sky background is different in the two images. This will have effect in overall coloration. Sun position appears to be a little different also. I feel for you because you know I'm scratching my dumb head over mats lab also

If you have SK's book, Pg 431, fig 9.24, Under "texture, scaling, rotation and offset, use top icon to increase xyz uniformly. If no book, click M when object in question is selected. Go to right hand column, top box of items and click top left button labeled "editor" when cursor is over it, this brings up three icons.. use top icon to increase xyz uniformily. Whew! my first tutorial LOL alot :)

Fran are there two channels used for the texture(A&B)? And is the second channel the mortar lines you see in the correct texture? If so, you need to reduce the scale on 'that' channel's texture a little at a time until it's small enough to match the mortar lines on the correct one, that should take care of the difference. If the correct texture is only one channel, then you need to go into the DTE and see which of the 3 components has those lines, then bring up the noise, and scale it up(make it smaller) to match the correct texture. A screen shot would help....looking for a similar mat in my stuff....yes, please gimme a screen shot...

I disagree with Skilweegee. The sky will NOT effect your finished render unless: A) the poisition of the sun is different, and B) shadows for clouds are set to "Cast". Methinks it has more to do with thickness of your terrain itself. Try increasing this (x or z thickness) and see what happens? Also, is your terrain source resolution the same as Meski's?

I'll chime in here too, I'd also agree from having done the tutorial that it looks more like the dimension of your lattice has slipped too small.

But actually, I think you're doing great. I find the DTE really strange that sometimes I can be following a really precise tutorial and STILL end up with things that look different to the image the author supplied. But I'm happy with that quite often, it means you've got yourself a nice looking and unique wall mat now :)

Message edited on: 05/06/2005 01:48

never to argue with LSD he is a king... My reference was to darker shade of tutorial's wall. Does not sun color in sky lab possibly alter (i don't know right word here) brightness or luminence of objects or shading (not talking of shadows) or overall coloration of a render?

Aye, the sun COLOR would change things, but mostly it's the shadows not coming out like in Meski's. Methinks of lighting and transform, I think the texture's actually lookin pretty good!

Attached Link: http://www.janthevillageweaver.com/special/anatomy_of_a_wall/WWH4.htm

Okay, it's not a terrain, it's a lattice, that was one of the instructions in the tutorial, address for which coming up.... It may be that the lattice isn't the correct size, I may have flattened it too much, but I really didn't understand the instructions at that point in the tut very well. It was a bit obscure there. Okay, so how SHOULD the wireframe of the lattice look? I _thought_ it was saying 'make the lattice look like the first wall', (made from a cube) maybe that's wrong? Erlik, 2) the latter picture looks like a lattice. Notice the ragged left edge. You can't get that with just bump. Or I'm mis-seeing things? Yup, its meant to be like that, but mine looks just like his in that respect, (at the edge) so why no bumpy shadow on the body of the wall? skiwillgee, Im talking of part of bryce thats a bit deeper in than the mat lab, its through the mat lab and into the DTE. All my settings in the mat lab are EXACTLY the same as his, its when he says things like: (Rescale the lattice until it is approximately what the cube was. And: Adjust the height of the lattice to your preference. I use Raise/Lower and Equalize to take out the drastic elevations so that it looks something like below. Alternate between these two controls to make the elevation terrain pretty bright. If you don't your wall will be very thin. (Which arent very exact instructions) that I start to go wrong, cos I dunno what hes intending here, so I could end up with something totally different to what he intended (and obviously did!) But my terrain canvas looks pretty much exactly the same as his did, to look at it in the terrain editor. So I thought Id got it right up to then, but maybe not... Zhann, Fran are there two channels used for the texture(A&B)? And is the second channel the mortar lines you see in the correct texture? If so, you need to reduce the scale on 'that' channel's texture a little at a time until it's small enough to match the mortar lines on the correct one, that should take care of the difference. That could well be something you have there, Ill try it out later. Its a bit frustrating when he says things like use the basic bryce wall texture supplied, and apply it to your cube; it will look like this: - and it doesnt look a bit like it should, so theres something different right at the start... Makes it difficult to follow because hes then trying to adjust it to look like... well like it does when I actually applied it... I can do a screen shot, but what stage do you want a screen shot of? LSD, I did just what Robert Cox said to do - er, this isn't Meski's tut. At least, the webpage SAYS it's Robert Cox... (suddenly doubtful) anyway the terrain/lattice is just as he said it should be, I typed in the figures he gave in the screen shot of that part. Kathye, I'll chime in here too, I'd also agree from having done the tutorial that it looks more like the dimension of your lattice has slipped too small. Oh? It has? Could be... what do I do? skiwillgee, My reference was to darker shade of tutorial's wall. Does not sun color in sky lab possibly alter (i don't know right word here) brightness or luminence of objects or shading (not talking of shadows) or overall coloration of a render? Oh, yes, you could be right there. He did say move the position of the sun, but again he wasnt very precise as to exactly WHERE to move it. Here we are, heres what he says: Move the sun until the second cube that looks like a post casts a shadow on to the rock wall. My shadow DOES look like its the same... (shrug) I've posted the address of the page I'm having problems with, the main page (for the beginning of the tut) can be accessed by clicking on "home" on that page.

Er... my shadow looks the same apart from not being sufficiently wibbly that is.

Message edited on: 05/06/2005 08:13 I mean it's in the same POSITION. (duuurrrr!) (one day, I'll be able to say exactly what I mean, the first time around...)

Message edited on: 05/06/2005 08:14

Well if it's a lattice, it SHOULD be a terrain. Since you're not seeing the other side of it, half of it's polys are wasted! I apologize, though... I thought it was a Meski tut?

Attached Link: http://www.janthevillageweaver.com/special/anatomy_of_a_wall/WWH4.htm

It's "Anatomy of a Wall" and the website SAYS Robert Cox, but it could be that he's just hosting it - I have no idea whose tut it is. For all I know it could easily be a Meski tut. But it SHOULD be a lattice not a terrain, that's what the instructions say.

A "lattice" is actually just a terrain with it's same geometry projecting from both sides, Fran. They are otherwise identical. Whoever did that tut missed this point, that's all I'm saying. So, in this case, the symmetrical lattice is taking up twice as much RAM as necessary. Since you're not viewing it from both sides, it's unnecessary geometry. Converting it to a terrain will have no effect other than making it twice as deep , and of course cutting down your poly count at rendertime! Hope this makes sense...

Hmmm... not sure whether to suggest this considering that it's already been passed over by LSD and not mentioned... but then again, "out of the mouths of babes" and all that...

After looking over the tutorial, the only way that I can see that you would get razor sharp shadows, is if you raised the terrain too much. Bryce has a maximum height for its terrains in the terrain editor (this would be full white, because you can't get any whiter than that lol). If you just keep on raising the height of your terrain, your wall will get brighter and brighter and then then eventually will be full white.

This may or may not be your problem. Probably not, but just thought I'd throw it in. =) Personally I have no clue why it wouldn't work if that's not your problem. EDIT See I can't get everything in one post either (probably has something to do with the fact that it's 12:30 a.m. as I'm writing this). Just make sure that the brighter areas of the terrain don't "grow" when you raise the height of the terrain, and you should be fine.

Message edited on: 05/07/2005 00:30

Looks like it was written by Robert Cox. At least he has the copyright for it (or claims to). Okay, I'll shut up now (hopefully).

Screen shot of the mat lab after applying the texture

Here's my go at it. I didn't follow the whole tut, just downloaded the texture and created the terrain the way he said, only with a terrain not a lattice (just to appease the Storm Dragon lol). As you can see I have a squiggly line.

In order to have that straight shadow you HAVE to have a flat terrain.

As for the texture itself not looking as good, I'll leave that to "older and wiser heads".

I think the reason he wants to use a lattice is so that you can use the same wall from any angle. He doesn't want to just use it in one image (perhaps). Or he wants to use the same wall multiple times in one image (to make ruins, maybe)

Message edited on: 05/07/2005 00:48

Robert Cox aka Meski, I've dl the tut to look through it....

Aye, Shinyary, my point precisely... This is displacement mapping, in it's rawest and most basic form, a la Bryce. In other applications this is standard for all surfaces and you are not confined to using just terrains for this type of image deformation. Look in your Real-Time renderers and you'll see that it's an average, day-to-day occurance. Bryce is light-years BEHIND in being able to render anything. Just the way it goes...

LSD, "So, in this case, the symmetrical lattice is taking up twice as much RAM as necessary. Since you're not viewing it from both sides, it's unnecessary geometry." Oh, I seeeeee! Right ho. Zhann, " Screen shot of the mat lab after applying the texture" Okay.

shinyary2, "I think the reason he wants to use a lattice is so that you can use the same wall from any angle. He doesn't want to just use it in one image (perhaps). Or he wants to use the same wall multiple times in one image (to make ruins, maybe)" Oh, right, I see. That's useful to know, thanks. I can certainly foresee when I may want to make ruins. And Zhann, here's the DTE screen shot too, just in case...

So basically are we saying make the wall "higher"? i.e. pull it out toward the camera?

I've had a little play using that concept, and the wall DID become bumpier, only when I tried it again on another cube, the second wall was much thicker than the first... I was just wondering why?

Here's a shot showing the correct side of the wall/s - with shadow/s

My 3rd wall had an arch in it - created using boolean - can I do the same to the lattice to make an arched opening in that?

Message edited on: 05/07/2005 14:50

Fran--couldn't resist trying it myself. Looks pretty good to me; as you can see the lattice is solid with boolean rendering. I might just have to use this; it's got my imagination sparked. Something dark, maybe with someone standing right outside of this...

Hey, that's good! Now if I can just figure out how to increase/widen/make more obvious - the mortar lines....

Fran-try this.

Go to the DTE and open up the filter dialog. It's the pearl in the upper righthand corner in case you didn't know this.

Now reduce the "b" component of the formula. As you can see I used 0.05, you just have to experiment until you find something you like.

This is the result of said action.

Well... mine doesn't look like yours after that adjusment. I think it (the one on the right) looks worse (than the one on the left). That is, MINE looks worse, not yours.

This is my wall at b=0.21453; you just have to play with it and see what works best for you. Higher values of b seem to make the morter less intense, whereas lower values seem to make it thicker. Good luck!

Sorry, couldn't resist =)

Oh yeah, go for the red one! ggg

Lava morter is always fun. =)