Kuroyume said, 'Let's face it, most Poser users wouldn't be willing or cannot afford to pay $799 or $999 for a Poser Pro The cameras' lack of visual feedback about focal and their relation to the viewport/scene are aggravating Multiselection, as in Cinema4D where only shared dials/channels (analogously) are displayed, would go such a far way to improve workflow For example, after what appears to be many, many years of requesting multiple undos, there is still only one undo level And I agree completely: the interface actually causes the sluggishness in workflow. Those damned 'dials' must go' --------------------------- qualien said, 'Get rid of the whole concept of "Libraries" and replace it with an efficient file-selection process. "Poses" "props" etc are just file formats' ------------------------------------- So, to answer all of that, plus richard novak's original question, Daz studio is free It's cameras can frame or aim at any body part or object It has multiple selection/manipulation of objects It has multiple undos It has a 'normal' interface It can store all file formats together in the same library I'm not advocating DS as a better program than poser. It's not better, it's just an alternative. I have poser 4, 5, 6 and daz studio and I use them all for different things. Personally, I find DS the easiest to use for workflow, but not all people like that kind of interface. Some people (for reasons beyond my comprehension) prefer the strange poser UI. Matter of taste. 'Professional' to me means that the program does what you need, is easy to use and doesn't throw fits. None of the 3 posers, nor DS, are as yet at that level. They all have different things missing or not very usable. But DAZ at least have an excuse. They're about to release v 1.0. CL are on v 6.0 and poser's workflow hasn't improved much in the last 3 versions. Despite all the calls for multiple undo in poser, I don't ever see it happening. mac

DAZ|Studio isn't quite ready to replace Poser, though, is it? I do have the latest version and am going to be working with its SDK in the future. But too many things aren't supported or not working properly to call it competition just yet. I agree that it has a better chance at moving forward than Poser has at this time - considering that the codebase is fresh. Curious Lab's Achille's heel here might be their unwillingness to fix this rudimentary lack of features in this archaic codebase. Slowly, but surely, there is a growing number of competitors lining up in for the race. Poser is looking old, tired, and carrying a lot of baggage.

Nope, I don't think it could replace it right now. But I agree totally that it's in a better position than poser with it's coding. Unfortunately for poser, it's built on a structure of ramshackle old code that's ready to fall down at any minute. I sometimes wonder how long CL can go on shoe-horning things into it before they're forced to rewrite it from the ground up. And I'm not entirely sure that that would be a good thing. We might lose a lot of the hacks we take for granted. On the other hand, we might have a brand-new program that really kicks ass. One thing that poser has done in it's lifetime is put a lot of the code in the hands of the users. DAZ weren't keen on unlocking the binary files, but they saw the way the wind was blowing and changed the presets to text, so at least we can play with them. I would credit poser with giving DAZ that little nudge. And yes, I also wonder how long the users will carry on without multiple undo and all the other features that even the most basic free apps have. mac

Carolly,

You're getting way too defensive here. I'm complaining because Poser is one of my favorite apps, always has been. I endure what a lot of the "professional level" people dish out because I use Poser, but I refuse to stop using it.

I do model and render in Lightwave. But there's this program that has 3D people already, maybe you've heard of it? And it's a time saver, and in a one-man shop, time really is money.

So, I'm complaining because I want it to be better. I want it to finally be able to do the things it's capable of. I don't see where asking for multiple undos should get you so defensive? Or why a change to the interface would do the same?

Either an application should be able to do it all, or be able to export to an app that can, otherwise, can it really be an asset to any professional user interested in the best quality with the lowest time?

Poser won't support particles, soft or hard body dynamics, realistic hair, etc. other apps can. However, getting Poser meshes into these other apps can be a real headache at times.

I've paid for several versions of Poser. I've used it and been mocked for using it for years. I think I've earned the right to some critisism and feedback. No, I can't program. The point of this thread is to bring to light things people really would like to see in Poser, and hopefully, some programmer will read this and try.

If that makes you so defensive, sorry. Feel free to stay out of this thread. Nobody is twisting your arm.

Message edited on: 05/09/2005 09:31

I'm not defensive... and I'm not the one complaining that it isn't a $20K program with a drafting interface. You have the choice to use a "professional" application... so why don't you model and rig your figures in it? Wouldn't that be less frustrating than complaining? I've used Poser since version 2... there's a half dozen boxes on the shelves behind me. I sold 3DStudio and transferred the license because it was shit. I don't sit and complain about 3DS... I dumped it and use a suite of programs which give me the images I need. "A man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what is a heaven for?" Most people forget that those lines are from a poem called Lucifer... and hell is wanting what you can't have. Why don't you complain to the Lightwave people that their rigging is too difficult or they lack free content? While you bemoan the shortcomings of these programs, I'll enjoy getting a handle on the new lights and rendering abilities in this one. BTW, I started in the games industry back when CGA was the norm. You might remember 4 color art and building with bricks? People are spoiled now!!! Carolly

You get more defensive with each and every posting. I think you should slow down and take a deep breath. I have used programs and then dumped them. But I won't dump Poser. I like it too much and I feel I have valuable imput. I'll just ask for better tools within it. I think you're mad because you don't want to adapt to change. I'll bet that if P7 comes out and it has a more professional interface (even something like Daz Studio) most people griping about the change initially would eventually see how much more control they have. All the while, you'll be complaining they changed your interface, how dare they! I'll bet developers for programs love to hear what the customers are asking for. I think change is just around the bend. You can either contribute ideas and desires and influence the change, or you can latch on to P6 or P5 or P1 if you like and use it for the rest of your career. Well, that's fine. You stay defensive and quote your poetry :) I'll keep asking for more impressive tools from Poser. I know it's capable of it. After all, if everyone was content with still images, animation probably wouldn't be a part of Poser right now, would it?

Well put, Richard! Developers (and businesses in general) should always listen to their customers. Now they should 'negotiate' or 'compromise' when customer requests go beyond the business model or fiscal possibilities. I'd love it if NASA would build a time machine, but I don't expect them to put much effort into that any time this century! :) But when the ideas are good or viable, attention must be paid. For example, my recent release of interPoser Ltd 2.0 was solely done because some guy in Brazil asked me, "Where are the lights and cameras from the Poser scene file?" I told him that, at the time, there weren't any. So, I implemented the recreation of Poser lights and cameras in Cinema 4D into this release (among other improvements). Ooh, that reminds me that I promised to contact him once these features were available. ;) Tata...

Quote - What would it take to make Poser a "Professional" application?

Probably a few more zeros tacked onto the end of the current price. Anything dubbed "Professional", usually carries a hefty price tag. Look at office supplies sold to you by Office Depot, compared to the price of the same items sold to Government Agencies.