Please be advised that your figure making habits have now excluded the ProPack users from using your creations. This is serious because New version's of Poser are no going to be set up the same way. So it's not going to just affect the PP user's. Eventually. Poser5 will be released and your figure's won't work with them either. If you haven't been following the threads about the problems. Here's what's going on: In the New file handeling system of Poser. Custom geometry is no longer used in the cr2 files. Instead. When the grouping tool is used. The geometry that would normally get put into the cr2 file gets put in the libraries folder as an .obj file. Next to the cr2 file. NOT IN IT. What this means is: When someone loads a figure with custom geometry in it. The figure is riddled with holes. The fix is pretty straight foward but a little time consuming: 1.)open the figure 2.)set it to default pose 3.)export the props and conforming figures attached to the base figure 4.)apply those to the base P4 figure again 5.)use morph manager to transfer the morphs to the new figure. Sounds simple. But here's the problem: Look at the picture. For some reason. You all decided to save the figure's in a non-default pose! And on top of that. You all decided to re-scale various props and conforming figures AFTER the figure was created! Therefore. You can't restore the figure to properly export the props and figure's to rebuild them again so future version's of Poser can use them. This means. We can't use them!!!! Please pass the word about this. All that's really critical is that you distribute your figure's in the default pose. We can convert them if you do that. ScottA

It looks like the way PPP is and Poser will be is going to really screw it up for sharing/selling. I don't have PPP, but it sounds like the figure geometries end up in the Cr2 after you save a character. So much for passing around Cr2s. What else is different that can cause sharing problems?

No, they don't end up in the CR2. They are stored in the same folder as the CR2.

The geometries thing is really the biggie. There's a small issue with thumnail rsr's. Since the PP doesn't use them. Anyone using the PP has to convert their .PNG to a .PICT file. Then use the RSR thumbnail converter program to convert that to an .rsr thumnail file. So they can distribute it for the older versions to see a thumbnail. Just a minor thing really. ScottA

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. So, for example, the blMilWom.obj is now in the same folder as the Victoria.Cr2 instead of the Runtime/Geometries folder? How about when you import an OBJ and use the setup room to make a new character? Does the geometries end up in the Cr2 like it would with P4?

Yes, that's how it works so far. Maybe Scott can answer the custom figure question, I haven't tried it yet.

It works like this: You start with a base figure with the geometry located in the normal geometries folder. If you use the grouping tool to add more groups. It writes out a new .obj file named with the same name as the cr2 file. And places it in the libraries folder right next to it. The pointers in the .cr2 file get changed so that it now reads that .obj file instead of the one located in your geometries folder. ******************************************** Just to clarify something: I wasn't sure if I explained this properly. But the reason you can't simply export the props from the figure when it's not in a default pose is because the props will be twisted to fit a posed figure. If you export it like that. It will not fit properly on a default posed figure. ScottA

Hopefully I'm not the only one that doesn't have PPP that has questions. I've downloaded the manual for PPP, and skimmed through it. My question is on starting from scratch. For example, I make a OBJ in Carrara that I want to make posable. I import into PPP, set "bones" to it in the setup room, use the grouping tool to slice the OBJ, and set everything in PPP. When I save my new character, does the geometries end up in the Cr2, as it would in Poser, or does PPP save the OBJ separately? Thanks for the help.

No. It doesn't work like that. 1.)You Import your mesh as one single mesh (groups are ok. But makes it harder) 2.)go into the setup room. Use bones to define the body parts of a figure. 3.)click auto group and this converts the bones to groups (body parts) 4.)setup the jp's in the same manner you do with Poser4. The bones are actually just a grouping tool option that will automatically cut up the mesh according to where you've placed them. The jp's work the same as they always have. Only they put in a rotation order dropdown option so you can change them as you go. You can even change them after a figure has been created. Which is pretty nice. ScottA

Hmmmm, sounds like I won't be getting the ProPack anytime soon. LOL. Does the install convert all existing files? What happens to your current inventory after install? Does is refile everything? I hope after all that trouble they inproved the rendering engine, but I bet they didn't.

evrything you have is converted that was saved in your library and if you laod the origional because like scott says, it simply reads them differnetly on a good note the motion blur is worth the propack alone it works excellent and take's alot of the robotic motions alot of people come out with away

ScottA Let me make sure I understand this. First as you may know I sell figures. The way I have been setting them up is if there are any changed geometries or props they are included in the CR2 file. I dont use a separate geometry file. I also sell my figures in the default position. Will my figures be affected? Second when you install the pro back does it change your Runtime folders? Third does it replace the rsr file with a png file? I need my rsr files. I should have my copy tomorrow and am thinking about setting up a new poser install on another drive then installing the pro pack. Thanks for your help! Ron

it doesnt use the rsr files at all so any info in the rsr will be ignored

LOL. Looks like I've become customer support fro the ProPack ;-) That's ok I don't mind the questions. But be aware. It's new for me too. So I might be wrong about certain things. So take what I say with a certain grain of salt. 1.) It looks like any file containing custom geometry will produce holes using the PP. So yes. That might effect your items you are selling. But at least if they are in the default pose. The more experienced users will be able to export all the extra's. And rebuild it while running the PP. be aware. I'm still testing things. I might be wrong 2.) It only adds additional sub folders to the Runtime folder to accomodate the new features. Like the Python addition. It does not seem th EDIT any of the other folders you are used to seeing there. 3.)Yes. It does automatically generate a .PNG file for all the figures you have in the library. But it does this by accessing the .obj file and the cr2 file. Not the .rsr. So it doesn't erase it. It leaves the thumbnail .rsr behind. So you can still use it if you need to. The neat thing about this new thumbnail system is that now everyone. Even me without having a graphics card capable of 32 bit graphics. Is able to generate those really nice looking thumnails that we all like. ScottA

heyas; now... can/will creative labs 'fix' pro pack and future posers so that if they run into a cr2 with embedded geometry, it CAN read them properly? is it just me, or isn't turning all your old custom figures into unreadable trash a major screwup? :) OH NO! i dont like those nice 32-bit thumbnails. i like making my own custom backgrounds for my libraries. ::sigh:: progress stinks! ;)

new subject BLACK MONDAY THE DAY THE S HIT THE FAN LOL!!!;) other problems are if you try to export one of the figure it really trashes it causing everything to lock up and go grey

What a cool character you're showing in the sample! Who did it? where did you get such messed up file? I can't help but feel a little picked on... but if it's for the greater glory of Poser... then pick away! Doug (making a note to himself and thanking Scott for posting this very important thread!)

As I mentioned in the Python Forum, the symbology of the Snake convincing Adam to eat the Apple, and thus be thrown out of the Garden, is something to think about. We're not in Kansas anymore (unless you live in Kansas) and Poser moves ahead into both exciting and dangerous new territory...

Its funny everyone thought that python scripting would present the worst problems for pp

I know but this territory seems all too familiar. Any one else remember the Poser Patch. I'll have to send them a thank you letter for their outreach and consideration to the Poser Product community.(not)

Actually Doug. I used your figure because it wasn't messed up. And was easier to use to trouble shoot with. Than the other files I was using. This isn't your fault. (Although I'm not a huge fan of putting geometry in the cr2 files). It's simply something we have to find a way to work around. Or let Curious Labs know what problems we are having so they can possibly help us solve it. ScottA

I think Python Scripts, while extremely useful in TESTED form by Python knowledgable programmers can be very helpful, the potential also exists for a Poser Atom Bomb, whether intential or not... We need to have a Python script testing authority or 3rd party Poser Py-Check application. They are potentially very dangerous in the hands of both amatuers and fiends who mean to do bad things...

not a problem ScottA!

You can just call me Scott if you like. That's my real name. ScottA Is my Yahoo Groups pen name ;-) ScottA

Well that is the fault of the pro pack creators too bad they did not consider this error on thier part.

so Scott, As long as I make my files at the default position (all joints set at 0 right?) then I'll be fine? here's a Poser Pro question... after you install Poser Pro, can you still go back to Poser 4? or does Pro install over the older program? Doug

If the figure just has props attached to it that are in the cr2 file. Then the default pose should work fine. If the figure has a conformer applied to it. Like a piece of clothing. Then the zero pose will probably work the best. We need to strip off these parts so we can re-apply them back to our figure's when using the ProPack so the geometry isn't located in the cr2 anymore. You'll have to remove the whole program if you want to go back to the standard program. It might be best to wait until we hear from CuriousLabs about all this stuff first before doing anything. They might do something to fix it without going through all of this work. ScottA

Much as I love Poser, I sure as hell won't drop two franklins on an upgrade that isn't consistently backwards-compatible with 5 gigs of Poser work and requires a 3rd-party utility unavailable for my computer for conversions. If I were writing something like this I'd change the extensions on the new figures, embed a "Propack" comment-token identifier, and deal with supporting the embedded geometry hack they invented. Where's Kupe when you need him to clear these things up?