Well, if we're going to talk about Star Wars in the Poser Forum, why not talk about Star Trek also? Neither uses Poser, but so what? I thought last week's "These are the Voyages" was a terrible episode. Sure, it featured Riker and Troi, but it played more like an episode of TNG. I thought it was supposed to be the finale to "Enterprise", not an expansion of a TNG episode. And they killed Trip! Wouldn't it have created more drama if they killed him a few episodes earlier? And this is the first time in modern history that a Star Trek series has not had a 2-hour special "event" finale. Voyager came home, the Dominion War ended on DS9 and Picard travelled through time on TNG. But, Enterprise? All they got was a visit by Riker and Troi (and a sub-plot about rescuing an Andorian girl) and that was it. I guess people won't have to wonder why the series was cancelled. --John

I liked the way the show ended with "Space, The final frontier..." being said by all 3 captains of TV ships named 'Enterprise' :-)

Well, there's props for both series out there, and beaucoup (je ne pas parlez francais..ain't if obvious?..;)props, characters, etc., for Poser. So I guess you could bring up Tony01701 or JCHoagland's stuff, respectively. We do tend to render the themes fairly often (though I may go overboard towards..hmm..you know..i haven't done a Star Wars pic in about 2 years..;)
yeah, I'm a bit confused by the last episode..though, there is an 11th Trek movie in the works, though it hasn't got past the 'what story will we tell', and Bermabragga are going to use all new characters..we'll see how far that goes..;) (tongue firmly in cheek, though for now, the movie is real..)

These movies are just plain fun. I hate that people take them way too seriously. These movies are demo reels from the best and the brightest in our medium. They are the bar which we all aspire to meet. I rarely want to see effects take the place of story. But in these movies. That's exactly what I want to see. Cutting edge effects. George has the best toys and the most money to throw at them. I want to see what he can do. Screw the stupid story and actors altogether. Show me what's possible and make me want to keep getting better at it. Just like instrumental music. Screw the stupid singing and show me what you can do. I guess I'm different from most people. :-)

Well, the star of some old movie wasthe governor of California... and the President, also has a carrier named for him :-)

What!!!????

You're kidding.........?

;)

Attached Link: http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations/

Saw it yesterday, loved it!

What the critics don't understand is that these films are NOT movies. Judge them as movies and they fall flat.

They're opera. Opera for the eyes.

And with all the attendant silliness and lack of realism that goes into opera. If you can accept the hero of a Mozart opera not realising the guy talking to him is his girlfriend in a pair of trousers, you can deal with Yoda to the end of a sentence his verbs shoving.

Maxfield, They are not opera! Opera stands the test of time and is still enjoyable a couple of centuries later. Opera has stories. Good opera has excellent stories. I don't spend much time with Italian and Viennese fluff (although Turandot and Madame Butterfly are exquisitely poignant). Give me something like The Tsar's Bride or Khovanshchina where you have politics and personal tragedies mixing on the grand scale. Or Tristan and Isolde. Or Boris Gudenov. The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh has treachery and redemption as themes. Some people know how to write a love scene! Some people know how to write about revolution and despair. Some people know how to write about politics and betrayal. Lucas knows nothing of this. Carolly

Carolly, you are too much extreme. I go to cinema for fun. And I swear, yesterday I got A LOT OF FUN. Go and watch it!! :) Fin, MY SON, cmon, My Young Padawan ... The Dark Side Has You (James Earl Jones voice) :D

My father dragged me to the first star war movien, I was about 12 at that time. First resentley did I realise that the tre last movies isn't a remake of the tre first movies. I've thought Lucas just wanted to do them again because the possiblility of 3D, digital and so on has improved so much since the first 3 was made. I think it was the first of the 3 new ons I saw, don't remember the name of it, but I was dissapointed with the effects. I saw it only because of the effects, just as I saw all Matrix, Van Helsing ao. Guess I should had seen it with other glasses on.

Speaking of using other glasses, just to really blow everyone's socks off, Lucas is already in the process of reworking (again) all of the 6 movies in 3D! They will be rereleased in theaters for the ultimate experience in eye-candy!

That rumour about a 3d version of the films is highly unlikely, to do it right they would actually have to film the six films all over again, it would cost more to make them than it did originally.

Well, if the results looks like Animatrix, I need to see this ... :)

Well, from what I understand, it is not rumor. Lucas has already begun. And they aren't doing any refilming, but playing tricks with the film. Hey, if they do it, awesome, if not, then so be it. I am still clinging to the hope that this film will be big enough at the box office that Lucas will give in and make another trilogy.

I don`t think that money is the problem about making another 3 films, it might be difficult getting all the actors back to do more films, but I would like to see the last three chapters, too.

That movie was great. Anyone that isn't going to go see it, go see it. You will be completely missing out on the sheer fun involved. George Lucas takes it critically in the rear for a couple of his shortcomings all the time. The whole idea of SW is to be like the Saturday afternoon sci fi serial (read cheesy). The fact remains, what he does do well, he does better than anyone else. Go to see Star Wars for what is good about it. Please don't be too busy having opinions (whether unfounded or not) to take in an artist's work while they are alive and the work is fresh.
You could skip Ep I and Ep II, if you want. This movie is more strongly tied in with ANH than EpII. And the flavor of the older films is much more present here than in Ep I and II.
And, by the way, Leah Organa says that her mother died very young. She is talking about Bail's wife, not Padme. She doesn't know she is Padme's daughter. So, it is actually Bail's wife that dies very young.
This shouldn't be about GL not deserving the $3.50 it costs for one person to see this film. The effort of all the artists involved should be important. And they did one hell of a job. One hell of a job. GL had a tough act to follow with Return of the King. And follow it he did. This film will is the visual crown jewel of SW.

"I saw it only because of the effects, just as I saw all Matrix" The first Matrix movie really had me excited. Here I thought we were witnessing one of the first "sci-fi" movie to adapt the "Alice In Wonderland" style of surrealism, touching on everything from drugs to philosophy. I loved it in a different way than most others I think. I thought it transcended the genre into a more psychological "trip" if you will. LOL. Or... maybe it's just the LSD I tried once when I was 18 making me see things differently today. DON'T DO DRUGS KIDS! 8-0 Either way, I thought the final two episodes sucked, and even with all the special FX and eyecandy, it was disappointing to see such a typical story evolve from the great potential cooked up in the first movie. Sadly, the only thing The Matrix will most likely be remembered for is Keanu's horrible acting, and the "bullet time" FX that EVERYONE seems to have copied now. :-(

I made a point to miss that episode. Honestly, I haven't really watched Enterprise since the first season. It got to be like Voyager. Bevis (Berman) and Butthead's (Braga) "Let's spread political correctness through the galaxy" formula. The original series dealt with real issues, and for a while so did TNG. Of course B&B consider TOS to never have happened so it's no surprise what they've done with the franchise. When I heard Troi and Riker were going to be in the final episode of Enterprise I couldn't help but wonder if they were going to explain it away by having "Bobby step out of the shower" if you know what I mean. That, or it was going to be "Generations" all over again where the founding of the Federation would never have happened without the TNG crew being there. ST just needs to go away for a while and have someone else put in charge of it.

"Either way, I thought the final two episodes sucked.." Yep me too. I saw number 2, expecting it would show something new like 1 did. (Thinking that they proberly had learned that ppl expect, if not more then something new, of a follow up) I was wrong. I decided to see number 3 because now they must had listen to the audience who was dissapointed by number 2. 3 was a bit better than number 2 though, I though. But - 1 had been enough. I saw the characters story as a modern Jesus (so nothing original there)

Hauksdottir you couldnt pay me to watch most of these operas (I suppose it would depend on how much I was payed :) ). Opera stories are usually older plays or stories by other people so comparing them to star wars doesnt seem fair some how.

*"Through myriad Star Trek novels, Captain Kirk will be just like James Bond -- eternally 35 years old.

The same thing goes for Han Solo."*

I don't know about kirk, Xenophonz, but as for star wars, Han Solo is aging along with the rest of the cast. The last novel I read (and didn't finish) in the star wars novel line (or expanded universe, as its commonly referred to), was Vector Prime which takes place approximately 25 years after the events of ROTJ, and in which Anakin "jr" and the twins are adults, Luke is married to Mara Jade and Han is in his mid to late 50s. Oh, and chewie's dead (which was approved by lucasarts). There have been several other novels written since VP, that take place afterward but I haven't gotten to them yet. So, as far as the star wars plots go, the characters do progressively age. And for those of you out there who don't consider the novels to hold any barring on the films, all the star wars novel plots are conceived by lucasarts and assigned to select authors. Once in a while a rogue author will present a manuscript and if its approved by lucas it gets published. Back in the 80s and 90s when star wars got a new boost in the writing world, i believe more of the manuscripts were conceived by rogue authors on their own and then presented for approval, but now it is the reverse. And because of this progressive aging of the main characters in the novels, it makes perfect sense for lucas to do the 3rd trilogy. Ford, Fisher and Hamil are all of the same age as their characters in the books. Well, give or take, and their children are adults. Lucas said the story was to cover 3 generations of the skywalker family. And the original cast were all signed at one point to do a 4th film, that was never written. Lucas wouldn't even have to think up a new plot for the 3rd trilogy, its already been written for him, and would most likely be far better than anything he could come up with... Which is probably what he's afraid of... Sam Jackson mentioned the 3d re-release the other night on the Letterman show. And I am almost certain that lucas mentioned it himself in his Q/A with Hayden Christiensen on moviefone.com - Lucas is not about to let the star wars empire die out now. What else does he have to do? they already pulled the plug on the 4th installment of indianna jones.

E.D. Message edited on: 05/20/2005 12:50

"Let's spread political correctness through the galaxy" formula. The original series dealt with real issues, and for a while so did TNG.

Yes.....that's what originally turned me off to Trek -- beginning with TNG. And the first episode of Voyager drove in the spike.

The whole thing became so nauseatingly PC as to be unwatchable.

BTW -- I am willing to predict that classic Trek -- for all of its hokiness -- will still be in re-runs on cable TV long after TNG (not even mentioning Voyager or Deep Space Nine) will have been virtually forgotten.

I've never seen a single episode of "Enterprise". In fact, I was barely aware of the fact that such a series existed.

I don't know about kirk, Xenophonz, but as for star wars, Han Solo is aging along with the rest of the cast. The last novel I read (and didn't finish) in the star wars novel line (or expanded universe, as its commonly referred to), was Vector Prime which takes place approximately 25 years after the events of ROTJ, and in which Anakin "jr" and the twins are adults, Luke is married to Mara Jade and Han is in his mid to late 50s. Oh, and chewie's dead (which was approved by lucasarts).

Theoretically, Kirk was killed off, too.....but in the Star Trek universe, being dead is just a minor technicality.

A novel has already been written (by William Shatner, I think) in which Capt. Kirk is brought back to life by the Borg.

Neat trick, eh?

No.....my point concerning characters like Kirk and Solo being eternally 35 had more to do with the continuance of the story franchise.

Sure, I've even seen a many-years-ago "biography" of James Bond, in which the ex-agent was portrayed as an aging retiree.

But Bond is still doing what he's always done -- for all that. In fact, his "official biography" has dropped off into forgotten obscurity.

If nothing else, the fans will keep Han Solo alive. So long as the fans themselves are alive, and care about such things.

Who knows? If they can seriously talk about making a "Mr. Ed" movie, then someone might bring back Trek or SW's 50 years from now.........

I am thinking that although George Lucas stated that there would be no third trilogy, he will definitely change his mind. He may not be quite as involved, but like ExistentialDisorder says, he's not gonna let the empire die now.
There are some signs in the movies, for example, if the prophesy was that Annikin would bring balance to the force, and it seems he has, at the end of ROTJ, then who is on the Dark Side? The only two people left with the force are Luke and Leia. Is it Leia, Luke, or did the Emperor not die? Keeping in mind that lots of characters have fallen down shafts and lived to tell the tale (even with big explosions at the bottom). I have heard that some books have Luke or Leia turn to the Dark Side, but I don't read those non-canon books. How can there be balance if there is no evil Jedi? Even if the Emperor is dead, then why couldn't the Force just parthogenetically create a new Sith?
And (spoiler) if Yoda is having visions of Qui-Gon, why does he not appear to Luke with Annikin and Obi Wan? (other than the character didn't exist at the time of ROTJ). Is it that the ability to appear to living Jedi can only work with someone who has a connection to the dead Jedi's? This sounded to me like a way to work Liam Neeson into something, rather than a brief explanation of Luke's visions. Could be wrong tho.
I'm thinking that after the rerelease (starting 2007), Episode VII will be announced and be on the screen three years later.

Is it just me, or did I like the version of Boba Fett that was portrayed through the novelizations before George had to come and mess everything up?

Just caught a matinee viewing. All I can say is. It's not that great. Just OK. The effects were great. But nothing really new we haven't seen before. So I was forced to pay attention to the actors. A very flat movie. The ending was OK. But ughh, it started out worse than a fan film.

I count the star wars films as being the real story and the novels just being stories made up by other people.

Caravaggio - you make some valid points. back in the mid 90's when lucas first made the announcement of new star wars movies, and breathed life back into the star wars saga, he stated that the movies were intended to cover 3 generations of skywalkers, which meant 9 episodes, and that he'd originally done the middle trilogy first because he felt it was the most important part of the story. of course i have noticed that parts of his story change from one interview or magazine article to the next, and how drastic the changes are depends on how much time has passed between one to the next. I also remember him stating in the same article that he intended to have all 9 episodes released by the year 2000. that, by the way, was not the first time he'd mentioned the "3 trilogies/3 generations" bit. His most recent comments have been that he has no intention of making any more star wars films, other than the work he's planning for tv. he's also changed his story a bit and said that when he first wrote star wars it began with vader walking through the door (presumably leia's cruiser doors from the beginning of ep3) and ended with vader throwing the emperor down the energy shaft. he realized this was way too much for one film so he cut it up into 3 parts. yadda yadda. So, if you watch the interviews and read the articles, you can see that different statements he makes about star wars vary from time to time. Somebody stated at some point earlier that empire and jedi were written by someone(s) other than lucas, which is true, to an extent, but lucas created the basic script/outline for all the movies. he knew what he wanted to happen in each film. i'm sure he had help fleshing the story content out for the original trilogy, at least much more so than he has in the new trilogy. so to sum it up, there's really no telling. i don't see him making a 3rd trilogy, even though i'd like for it to happen. other people that have worked on the films - to include actors - have made hints here and there that another film is possible, but they're just hints. at this point who knows. lucas himself probably doesn't really know. with vader out of the picture, its not likely. If you're interested in knowing about other dark jedi/sith and the various goings-on of the surviving star wars characters, you should pick up some of the novels and read them. luke and leia both have gone down the path of the dark side, but they didn't stay for very long. leia doesn't deal with the force at all anymore cause it scares her, basically. and there was one point where vader's spirit tormented her in dreams. luke has established the new jedi order, and there's a whole series of books about that, which were pretty much kicked off with the new jedi academy trilogy, and carried on later. there's still dark jedi and various students that fall to the dark side, etc etc. the primary enemy of the republic in the most current novels are called the yuson vong (which i'm sure i spelled wrong) - who are much more dangerous and threatening than the empire or any sith could ever have been - they're from outside of the galaxy and force powers are pretty much unefective against them. their weapons have unimaginable power that make anything the republic throws at them look like b-b-guns compaired to an ak-47. and of course, their goal is to rule the galaxy - what else?... the cool part is that if you read enough of their story, you start finding that they've actually been slipping in and out of the galaxy in secret for thousands of years - possibly even longer than the republic has existed - and have had a lot of influence over various politics. star wars history dates back to about 25,000 years before the films, but so far most of it is just bits and pieces compiled through various installments of novels. there's a book called the essential chronology, that was written just after episode 1, that summarizes the bulk of the history, beginning briefly with the advent of the hyperdrive, and ending a few decades after rotj. its a lot easier than trying to read all the dozens of novels, to basically get the same info. in a lot of ways i personally find the history of the star wars universe more interesting than the films. but i guess that's the "histories mysteries" buff in me... E.D.

The empire could continue after the emperors death. Yoda says in episode 3 that prophecys can be wrong.

Message edited on: 05/22/2005 05:43

I saw the movie last night at the 10:45pm showing! The theatre was less than 1/3rd full, but still included some morons who brought thier infant in a car seat into the theatre - where there was the immenent thunderously loud THX sound test followed by a movie full of explosions. Arent these people concerned about the healthy hearing of thier child, or the possibility that all the explosions could be disturbing? I mean really, anyone that can afford a matinee ticket price SHOULD be able to afford a sitter for 3-4 hours?? I couldnt friggin believe it..... Anyhow, what I got from the movie was a great deal of excitement from the MANY incredibly coreographed sabre duels! The eye candy was pretty rich thru the whole movie. But the plot was laughable. The kid is ready to turn in the senator for being a sith, and with no display of proof, the senator can just say, "oh comon, become evil and im sure we can save your wife" and after what seemed a pretty damn short time of deliberation, he is betraying Mace and slaughtering CHILDREN???? These werent the sand people, these were innocent kids he had known in the jedi temple for who knows how long? He just opts to murder instead of trying to capture/mindcontrol/turn at the very least? Then to add intellectual insult to injury, we see the senator/emperor/sithlord put the kid thru a full cyborg surgery without even a local anesthetic (they can warp across the cosmos but have no space-morphine? I dont think so!) Then as soon as the kid is big bad and scary looking, the sith tells him "oh by the way, looks like both your wife and unborn child are dead and you did it cause I pissed you off so much but I cant do jack to undo it despite how versatile I said this dark side was" and the kid in the next scene is just hanging out looking sinister with the guy and looking like hes considering discussing doing lunch together instead of drawing and quartering him???? I dunno. I know its all fantasy and entertainment but the characters were so unrealistic it was impossible to relate to them really, and the movie just had a huge sence of lacking something important to me. I am glad to have seen all six of the movies on the big screen. I may well go see it again before it leaves theaters knowing when I go in to just enjoy the special effects. They do rock.

"LOS ANGELES (AP) - The last of the "Star Wars" movies has done what no movie in history has ever accomplished - sold $50 million worth of tickets in a single day." "LOS ANGELES (AP) - Moviegoers have turned out in full force for the final chapter of the "Star Wars" saga, which took in $158.5 million since its opening to shatter three-day and four-day box office records. "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith" grossed $124.7 million from Thursday to Saturday, according to studio estimates Sunday. That's higher than the three-day record set by the first "Spider-Man," which took in $114.8 million in May 2002 - though "Star Wars" had a lower Friday-Sunday take ($108.5 million) than the Tobey Maguire film." E.D.

Logansfury- I liked the effects too, in fact that is what Star Wars has always been about, using the computer to control cameras and create new effects and wow the audience. GL has never claimed that he was a literary giant. I tend to agree with you on your crit about the lack of a credible reason for Annikin to switch so quickly.
That being said, the movie can only be so long. Also, remember that Yoda and Obi-wan are incredibly afraid throughout episodes 5-6 that if Luke even so much as comes near the Emperor, his turn to the Dark side is pretty much a foregone concusion. Remember how Annikin says that he knows he shouldn't kill Dooku, but says that he doesn't know why he feels compelled to do so anyway? Well, he's standing right next to the Emperor at that point. Clearly Lucas's intention is for us to begin to understand that the Emperor's power goes beyond simple persuasion. This is why the final triumph of Vader and Luke over the Emperor carries even more weight. Vader cannot disobey his master, and it is only through the power of Luke's selfless act to die before he would kill his own father that Vader realizes he has to finally sacrifice himself to beat the Emperor and save his son.
I don't know why they didn't use a bacta tank for the surgery tho. I totally agree with you there!
I think too that Lucas will get more money out of this movie if he says its the last one, he's flip flopped so many times I suspect he's only half-hearted about it. Besides, GL has kids, who would be a child of Lucas without eventually inheriting the franchise?
Word is tho, he's moving on to other projects, but doesn't say what they are. Maybe there's something totally new and mindblowing coming?

caravaggio - You have a really good point there with the decapitation of Dooku! Weve seen Qui Gon (sp?) and Obi Wan use the jedi mind influence on several characters by speaking and using a semantic hand gesture. Perhaps the sith can use Force "suggestion" without the need to wave the hand, and when the senator was saying "he is too dangerous to live" he was actually using a Sith "subliminal force" command on Annie?

Yes, I think you are right there, I hadn't thought of it that way. Also, Palpatine on several occasions I think reassures the people he's talking to that he'll be able to "persuade" someone to do something he needs them to do.
For instance, this happens in AOTC, when he persuades Padme to take the Jedi as her bodyguards, and she gets a strange look on her face, and Yoda seems to notice something strange going on at that moment as well.

I thought it was interesting that palpatine mentioned a darth plagus, who had mastered the dark side to the point of being able to create life via the force. its possible that lucas was hinting at how anakin came to be, with this. since he was an imaculate conception. maybe this was palpatine's master, and it was palpatine that killed plagus in his sleep. palpatine had to have had a master at some point... of course this will never be explored in any of the films, but maybe in a future novel. i think anakin was inherently evil from the beginning, and it was just perpetuated by his immaturities and lack of patience with obi-wan's teachings. pay attention to the things he says in ep2, when he's sitting in the field with padme. this was before the tusken raiders slaughter. his suggestion is that government should consist of a group of people who come up with what's best for the people as a whole, and then work on putting those plans into action. when padme tells him that's what they do, only the problem is getting everyone to agree. he replies by saying then they should be made to, but passes it off as a joke. E.D.

I was talking about this scene in another forum with people who read the novels. And in fact. Plageous was the master of Sidious. And Sidius did indeed kill Plageous. And Anakin was intentionally created by the siths. Apparently the novels have already explained all this stuff and it's not really new. -ScottA

The Expanded Universe ... The Last Frontier ... ;)

"Alright Rabbit! You've convinced me!" I'll go forth and start reading these books... which one do I start with? I remember one from back in the day called "Splinter of the Minds Eye" or something like that. Is that the first one? Or are these all over the place, different series and such? Which ones are most like the movies?

That is very cool, Cassette. So i'll have to go get that one. Caravaggio, there are dozens of novels in the E.U. If you pick up one of the newer novels they usually have a time-line printed in the front or back that shows a listing of all of them in chronological order (up to the printing of the one you're looking at) of what time period it takes place. They aren't published chronologically tho, so just because it is the latest book released, doesn't mean it will fall in line with the one that came out just before it. a lot of the story of the clone wars is written in novels. Splinter of the Minds Eye, I believe, takes place between ep4 and ep5, and it was the first s.w. book written outside of the films - back in the late 70s. There are series that deal with the Rogue Squadron, that are primarily about the pilots, not the main s.w. characters. Then there's Shadows of the Empire, which takes place between Ep5 and Ep6. The Jedi Academy Trilogy was good, and you get some good info about the ancient histories in that, like Exar Kun, etc. Just look in the inside covers of some of the New Jedi Order series to find a timeline, and pick a few titles to start with. Or, as I stated in a previous post, you can look for a book called the essential chronology, that summarizes a lot of the back story, prior to the release of ep1 - info that's been "discovered" durring ep2 and ep3 is not included, unless there's been an updated version released. E.D.