Anyone run into that old demon cross talk in P6 SR1. I did with two of Capsces figures. They were kind enough to confirm it for me with testing on their P6. What happened? I thought this was eliminated in P5? Does anyone know if they put that little annoyance back and why? Of course wasn't, the way I understand it, done on purpose in the first place, could the same accident happen again?

I haven't had the time to experiment (took me 2 months just to get around to installing P6), but sure hope this is some kinda isolated thing. I don't EVER want to see cross talk again (it ruins every idea I ever have).

Maybe this thread at PoserPros will help, JCM Pointing Poses, the final solution for Crosstalk?

Yes I know Dig but a big kabash on our project when we only had P4. I was so disappointed to run into it, think I almost cried. ;-( I haven't seen much on it in reference to P6, but I can always miss things. I don't know if it is P6 that had it or this SR1 that caused it to appear againWas hoping for feedback from others users that have experience it with P6. So thank you very much ruddock, I will check out that link perhaps Poser Pro's can help me.

Try loading your morphs into each fig separately and saving each one to your fig lib. Then reload them. Does it help?

Thanks for trying to help rdf, it is appreciated. :-) Jim Burton, over at Poser Pro's, fix me right up!

I would hope if they intentionally brought it back, they'd make it controllable. We want ERC (in clothes and the like), but not indiscriminate crosstalk. It doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to make ERC work without reintroducing cross-talk. Maybe add something to the "conform to" command that rewrites all the numbers that make it happen. Similar to the code that rewrites all of them to prevent it.

If I can butt in here... ;-) I just wanted to mention that crosstalk is alive and well in Poser 5 (and I assume 6), it just exists in another form, and under some conditions it isn't present when you only have one figure in a scene. I'm going to try and revise the PDF that is in the thread mentioned above, to add some newer discoverys (like the need for a "universal null", which I'm also going to make freely available and also include with Glamorous Jessi).

Can I butt in too?

Cross talk can and will effect JCM in P6. The Cross Talk Fixer will block it for almost all human figures.

I haven't tried the "Universal Null" in P6, but in P4 and 5 it didn't work for JCM figures. That is, channels where the name of a body part (rForeArm, lFoot, etc), not the "Body" is specified as the controlling channel and the Figure name is "Figure 1"

For the curious a Universal Null is a completely empty figure. It has no geometry or body parts. The Cross Talk Fixer Has no geometry, but contains all the body parts with no channels. For figure designers, if you're interested, there is a way to build a shield figure be it a null or a fixer into a figure that uses JCM. This will insure the user will not have to struggle with cross talk, even in Poser 4. See my EMC tutorial for details on embedding a shield figure with EMC.

Nerd3D

.

It sure does sadden me to see all this talk about nulls and fixers. Makes everything I do so much more complicated than it should be. I do appreciate the links and tips, tho. Just thought that P6 would finally eliminate the need.

Can someone please explain what crosstalk is? As I'm quite new to Poser I haven't come across this term before. TIA

I don't know the tech speak for this, but until someone better versed comes along, I'll describe in my own terms. CT is when the morphs of one figure take over another figure in the same Poser scene. Two V3s together, but with different morph settings, for example. I always render outside of Poser, so this isn't much of a problem for me. A better example is conforming clothes. The reason this isn't discussed much is that it can result in super conforming clothes, which is often what folks want. But some of us prefer the clothes to be morphed differently than the base figure. If the clothing in question doesn't exactly match the human figure in meshing and morphs, the results can be a mess. Okay, almost always a mess. Since I rarely want clothes to look skin tight (yet still conform), this drives me nuts.

I must be the only person who actually likes crosstalk, and never saw it as a bug, but more of a feature. :( I very much like for the clothes to conform automatically. However, I rarely use multiple figures while in Poser, which is probably why I haven't had much problems with the nulls. When I want the clothes looser, I run the clothing element morphs backwards. However, how loose I can make them is going to depend on the included clothing morphs.

Well, that's just it. With cross talk I can no longer control like morphs in the clothing. They become disabled and will only conform to the base figure. I have to use the null thing to get seperate behavior, and even that doesn't always work.

Even without the null you should be able to control the clothing morphs via the individual parts. It is usually only the Full Body Morphs (and maybe morph controlled morphs?) that you can no longer control.

Nerd- The Universial Null is going to be basicly like your Cross Talk Fixer, then. I am going to include all the body parts I can find, including all those named in all the DAZ figures I have, plus all the special ones I include in some of my clothing, plus any that people send me a list of. This isn't the original "Millenium Null", I just sorta borrowed half the name, as it is a similar (but different) idea. ;-) Incidently, the event of JCM (discovered by Nerd and Rbtwiz) ment new demensions for Crosstalk problems. the Joint Controlled Morphs of a figure should ideally be run by itself, and conforming clothing (which mostly has to have matching JCM) should also run from the figure it is attached to, and not from another figure in the scene. Only solution I know of that works in all versions of Poser AND for more than one figure with conforming clothing is to start with (what I'm calling) a Universial Null, then load figures in order, then load all the clothin and other conforming items (these can be in any order) THEN apply what I call FIGs (Figure Reassignment Poses) which force the assignment of JCM (and also Full Body Morphs if the channels are in there, as many of mine are). The Universial Null is need because if the FIGs try to set a body part that isn't there Poser instead does weird things to Figure 1 (if it has that body part) or other figures (if it doesn't). Yes, it is complicated, but it does work. Most of the time, if the clothing is set up properly, and you use a single figure (with any amount of clothing figures conformed) you don't need nothing.

"FIG", I've been calling that an EMC Injector. Just today I was messing with that and may have discovered a glitch in P6. It seems if you inject a JCM in P6 you can't inject it again on that figure in that scene. An example would be using an injection to change the JCM control ratio. I didn't go back and test it further. It could have just been a weird scene or figure. Maybe later I'll try to reproduce this. Capsces, I LOVE crosstalk. It's what makes SuperConforming figures work. CL fixed some stability issues with SuperConforming and messed up JCM channels in SP1. No longer will Poser blink out if the controlling channel does not exist. That would happen if the clothes wer loaded before the figure, or the wrong figure was selected. P5 will still crash if you load things in the wrong order. Nerd3D

Attached Link: http://www.hogsoft.com/

This simple utility will let you enable or disable crosstalk as you wish without any editing or preparation of your files. All the editing is done on-the-fly for you by the utility. Why do you want to enable and disable Crosstalk? Well it all depends on which version of Poser you are using, and whether crosstalk helps or hinders you in a particular scene.

It is very simple to use. And you get the very useful Hogsoft hub free too.

[ Full disclosure, I'm a beta tester for Howard, and I was involved in the development of the P4PyE technology which allows this to work with P4. But as Crosstalker is free I shouldn't be falling foul of the TOS. ]

Thanks layingback but I personally would rather follow up on what Jim and Nerd are doing. But of course to each their own and whatever you are comfortable with. :-)

Message edited on: 06/05/2005 13:48

I'm thinking about setting up a macro in MS Word to do some of the editing, though.

The pic is G J's new bikini set to "Scandalous", I gotta put the FBM for that in the FIG too, there is no end to it! ;-)

Message edited on: 06/05/2005 14:39

bookmark

Ok... so what IS the fix for P6 SR1? Or the work-around. Universal Null does not do the trick as far as I can see. Have not yet read Jim's docs on the subject.

The cross talk fixer works for all Mil figures and figures with the same body part names. It works in all versions of Poser from 4 to 6.0.1, and probably beyond.

Cross Talk Fixer

If you want a better understanding of how it all works see this tutorial. It includes a section on how to make a fixer and how to build a fixer or "Shield" into a figure.

EMC Tutorial

Nerd3D

Thank you, wise one. Ever think of doing some dynamic clothes for the Poser guys? Or have you done some, and I've just missed them? Your's are the best I have worked with....

Well.... After trying the Universal Null, Ockham's Cross Talk killer script, and Cross Talk Fixer; none of them solve my crosstalk issue in P6 SR1. Damn! And there aren't even any benefits, as conforming clothing does not super conform. This is crazy. And why is this not affecting everying who is running SR1?

The problem is not crosstalk, it's the way the ERC is setup in the clothes, see link in post #3 for the full explanation.

Poser is doing what the information in the files tells it to do, it's just not what is actually wanted.

1. Loaded David
2. Loaded Muscular Morph Inj
3. Slected David > Hip
4. Loaded David Bodsuit
5. Dialed morph on David... nothing
6. Loaded Cross Talk Fixer
7. Selected EMC > Body
8. Loaded 2nd David
9. Injected Muscular morph to second David
10. Muscular Morph instantly applied to 2nd David

Tried to repeat process in a new scene, Poser locked up.
Forgot to mention conforming bodysuit to david, step 5

Message edited on: 06/25/2005 07:54

withdraw and rephrase Nruddock, Ithought I had read the thread at PoserPros.. but now i wonder. I thought that was where I go the Universal Null. But today it seems completely different. Working at it.

Message edited on: 06/25/2005 08:05

The DAZ injection morphs are setup to work on the first figure in the scene.

You can't inject properly into the second or subsequent figures loaded into a scene.

Start from a blank scene (i.e. one with no default figure loaded), load figure, inject morphs, adjust as desired, and save to library. Repeat for each character. Start new scene load characters previously saved to library.

For P5 and P6 the trick for getting the BodySuit morphs to match is :-
Select the Figure Body, then Ctrl-C or Edit | Copy
Select the BodySuit Body, then Ctrl-V or Edit | Paste
Repeat each time you alter the Figure morphs.

This is the only solution? Kinda makes the whole Inj/Rem process kinda useless, don't it? Or at the very least, tedious and annoying. What is the deal with this? I never had these troubles in P5, nor P6 pre-Sr1.

Which is why I never liked this morph INJ stuff. It's just a marketing technique and it's really annoying, slow and unreliable. I "fully injected" the X3 figs, saved them back to the library and then deleted all the rest of the crap. In Poser 6 this works great because you can use PMD's and it takes WAAAY less space and loads in a fraction of the time.

Just fully inject your figure and resave it. If you want to be really cool you can setup the dial groups the way they should be done on all P5 and P6 figures. Here's a free Dial group injector for V3:

V3 Group Injector.zip

Nerd3D

P.S. Injecting dial groups works for any figure.

P.P.S. If DAZ was on the ball there would already be a PMD version of all their current stuff. PMD injection works all the time because it's not a hack. Poser 6 is designed to inject PMD. If you're interested read this:

PMD Injection Tutorial

Message edited on: 06/25/2005 10:00

That's what's recommended in DAZ's FAQ entry on the subject
How do I use the INJ/REM technology of Victoria 3 and Michal 3?

Earliest thread in the DAZ forums I found
P5 crosstalk with V3 and M3?
which references this
Open letter to DAZ Developers
earlier thread here at Renderosity.

The problem with INJections is summarised here as is the mentioned solution.

Attached Link: The Link to the thread at PoserPros

Far as I've been able to tell, Poser 6 does need the FIGs, if you have more than one figure in a scene, or if the clothing's JCM is set up "DAZ style".

However, Poser 6, like 5, doesn't seem to need the universal Null that I made for P4/PP users.

Incidently, I set all my Injectors up as "Figureless" as Jaager suggested, and they seem to inject fine into anything in the scene.

The proper PDF and the Universal Null are available at PoserPros.

Message edited on: 06/25/2005 13:35

As far as I could see, with the FIGs being used all the JCM was working as it should. My clothing all has matching JCM, and the FIGs included with the set control those, too.

Message edited on: 06/25/2005 13:47

.