Yeah, but the brit government also think Brits want to pay per mile for road use, I don't know what planet they're on, but it ain't this one

Gog: Couldn't agree more, but - Have you considered this one? If they use GPS to track vehicles they know what road you're are on and how much to bill you for. OK? So it follows that they know at what time you started your journey and how long it took you......therefore - they also know if you were speeding and could include a speeding fine along with your bill for the milage..........

Yes, I'd considered that, the other thig that shocked me was a chap on the radio who actually believed that the government would chop fuel tax once it had started this scheme, rather then keeping both. I'm amazed by how gullible (sp?) some people are!

LSD, let me first say that youve managed to take my entire post out of context to feed your mal contentious rant. Nowhere in my post do I mention or single out the USA or any other country for that matter, but youve decided to spout your venom and direct your discontent at the country you admittedly care nothing about nor do you add to its betterment or contribute to its larger good. But you persist to take full advantage of its liberties and social programs and live off of it like a parasite living off its host. Typically you offer no options for betterment but offer rhetorical lip service instead. The post concerned itself with the use of words as gauges of definitions and their use in modern day societies. My use of the word we in: we may not live in the purest of democracies was intended as plural referring to all democracies, not just the US form of democracy. In particular it addressed the word anarchy as used in the previous post. You, my friend, are talking to the wrong guy. Ive been in and around the system. I have been quite active on different fronts throughout my life on different issues and matters. But just to touch lightly on your obtuse perspective, the United States has played host to more than 50 million immigrants, 500,000 to 1 million per year, more than any other country in the world. You think maybe theres some reason these people decide to converge on this country, even to the point of placing their lives in danger, facing possible death to get into this country? They come in droves to have their babies here by the thousands so that their children can be born Americans. You think maybe theyre looking for opportunities, following their hopes and aspirations? And many do make it in America, the melting pot of the world. It is unfortunate that a few of those that fall through the cracks of the system or fail to mold a life for themselves in this country, immigrants and citizens alike, are the ones that become your most vocal malcontented dissidents. Thats good to a degree; it holds a mirror up for us to reflect upon. Ask those that have struggled to make it here and that have found some level of comfort and they would not have had it any other way. An entirely different picture than the one you paint, yet another mirror held for us to reflect upon. Surely you or anyone else cant possibly believe the US is perfect in every or any way? If it was, every country in the world would be hard pressed to emulate it. Then again, theyre trying to emulate it. Can you show us an existing perfect populous nation or form of government? I think not! And yet in all modesty, it is America and American culture, which has had some of the most profound influence on modern history and the world (not all good but generally in a positive way) and all in the blink of an eye as compared to civilizations historical timeline. Vengeance and greed is yours to be had if that is what you want or follow. In case you didnt realize it, kidnapping, rape and murder are not exclusive to the United State. If the gut wrenchingly liberal state of Washington indeed allows state-sanctioned kidnapping and ransoming in place of child-support on the local level as you purport, which I very much doubt, then either become proactive to advocate against it, or move out to where its not state-sanctioned. Its your civil duty to make changes to a government you dont agree with. You may like to call these individual acts of atrocities forms of anarchy and blow them out of proportion but what they really are is criminal malfeasance in every sense of the word. Where I live, kidnapping and rape is against the law. Morality is an individual attribute and throughout history it has been shown very difficult to find the middle ground and make everyone happy on morality issues. Cases in point: abortion, euthanasia, the Terri Schiavo debate, cloning, just to mention a few. If you have the answers to these issues that would benefit the majority, please, by all means, feel free to contribute to the betterment of the whole and enlighten us. My friend, you make very broad and vague accusations without any factual backup. As far as imperialism is concerned, the US has done what the Europeans have been doing for millenniums, expanding their spheres of influence. Starting with the British American colonies right through the western expansion and on up to today. For your reading pleasure I offer: Wikipedia and Encarta why would the countries of Europe want something like this? The entire world should have learned it's lesson by now. The USA is a shining example of what NOT to do with government, just like the USSR. It's really no different, except that here it will have a much, much costlier toll in human life to change things. I suppose you have a better system that neither the US or Europe know about? What intellectual authority is it that you hold to make such absurd statements? Easy to regurgitate rhetorical nonsense without giving viable and workable solutions from the comfort of your easy chair.

Quest, did you think I was directing my response at you?

(laughs)

Anyway, I did read your rhetoric. I actually agree with you on nearly every point, although I doubt you'd believe me.

What's really going on here is exactly what I've been discussing throughout this thread : mind control.

Based off of a few simple keystrokes, any one of us are able to convince any other that one believes certain things. Sure, there's something to be said about good, honest communication. Sure, there's something to be said about expression and freedom and opening of ideas. And there's even someting to be said about patriotism.

But I honestly have no viewpoints whatsoever on the topic.

Quest : welcome to mind control. I have, using simple text on a photon-emitting screen, controlled your emotions and ideas, and even your very fingers. By playing off of your ego and desire to express yourself, and by using a few key words that sparked your sense of independence, ego, and your inner desire to make change, I am able to direct your into stating more than elloquently exactly my views on these topics. Thank you, and you're welcome my friend! Hell, I even agree with your opinions of ME!

Now, (anyone, including but not directed AT Quest this time, for the sake of reference), tell me how farfetched or "futuristic", or "science-fictional" mind control is?

And again...

I am not to be taken seriously under any circumstances. Laugh with me, everyone. Our real enemies aren't each other, they aren't nations, they aren't people, governments, aliens, dragons, or cyborgs. Not even lasers.

The only thing keeping any of us from bettering ourselves is ourselves.

Message edited on: 06/11/2005 04:53

Message edited on: 06/11/2005 04:55

Quest and LSD: Just another example, don't forget that Gonzoles(?) kid a while ago. State-sanctioned kidnaping that went to higher levels. They sent in SWAT to retrieve a little child from a nonmilitary environment, was that really necessary? Anyway, I think it really depends upon who's in charge, which reflects directly back to the people--this is true for any country. Unfortunately (as I have said before), many people in the US at least don't vote concerning who would be the best leader or on who has the same ethical and moral views that they have, but rather it becomes an enormous popularity contest. The political debates come readily to mind. LSD, that's shameful manipulation. You're now on my "bad" list. =) Gog: Apologies for a bit of misinterpretation. If you want to "go beyond the dictionary definition", you need to be very specific about it, because, like Quest says, you default to the Dictionary definition because that's what everyone else uses. I see nothing wrong with creating your own definitions, so long as you take great pains to not make them confusing. But I'm not so sure that Anarchy, even by your definition, would work very well unless some VERY radical adjustments are made to human psychology. The reason for this is that we work so much better in groups than as individuals (because of the extreme limitations of our minds), and someone has to be at least nominally in charge of the group, if nothing else than to coordinate the whole thing. So even if there were no such thing as murderers, thieves, rapists, child molesters, and generally self-serving people that care only for advancing themselves and have no regard for society and civilization, there would still be some form of government there. I think that some form of government is the logical end result of human psychology, and it is impossible for us to function without us. So, this is a very roundabout way of saying that maybe Anarchy is the perfect form of government--for aliens. =) Bryster-- Here in the US we have road tax as well, just a bit more subtle. They are called tollways. =)

What an interesting thread! It's strange, but behind all the artwork and techie stuff we all do, we're all still just people with opinons. Or in my case, ancient dragon Highlords with opinions... But, Quest, and others : I want you all to know that political debates such as this do not affect how I feel about you as people, artists, or my friends. I enjoy and learn and grow from you, and appreciate the chance to share ideas with you freely. I wish you all well.

Well said LSD, political discussion can't be allowed to get in the way of friendship or art :) We all appear to agree that no matter what political doctrine you try, human nature gets in the way! @shinyary2, in the uk we currently have a road fund tax (levied on every road going vehicle), 70%(ish) tax on gasoline based fuels (LPG is taxed less as it's greener), some tollways, speed cameras (widely considered a stealth tax - when you consider 55% of people speed on uk motorways!) and now they want to add a charge of x pence per mile on any road! The government say they will remove the road fund tax and fuel tax, but most people don't believe them, when fuel tax was put up so high one of the objectives was to remove the road fund tax, they accidently forgot that bit, and will probably do it again here!

Gog speaks the truth!

Gog-- Yep! It would seem that we as human beings are incapable of ruling ourselves. I just kidding about the road tax BTW. But both are completely inane and rediculous. Wow! though... 70%, and people complain about taxes/gas prices here in the US. =)

:) - It's why a uk engineer will work out how to get 300bhp from a 2ltre engine versus a US engineer putting in a 5 ltre engine. (but the US one will sound better! :) )

(smiles at Gog) Auto manufacturers have been pulling such power from much smaller engines for years, my friend... Look at the RX-7 and RX-8. The RX-8 has a 1.3L engine and produces 238bHP. Try and keep up with Japan, you bloody wankers! (grins)

:) That'd be a Japanese engine designed by a German living in England :) (ok maybe I made the living in England bit up;) ) Has to be said the RX7 is an awesome car, haven't tried an RX8 yet. Rotary engines are very difficult to measure on capacity, the 1.3L is the theoretical active part of the 3 rotor lobes, but it's total capacity knocking on for 3L! Best bit about rotaries is the high revs, I had a go on a Norton Commander with a rotary engine and it was freaky tio ride!

Aye, I normally drive the Norton Antivirus, myself. Not as fast, but acceptable in comfort and other ways...