Attached Link: |||||||||| Mec4D Media Room |||||||||| Under Construction ||||||||||

Here is my next mini experiment and it works fantastic I will be very happy to use here an environment but most poser users use images so this time something for everyone. It take very fast and with couple of clicks your scene is ready, don't look at the ground textures it was just to catch the mood. I used for the test panoramic skies free from : http://sentos.visualthoughts.com/skies/ you can download the same if you wish to play with this mini tutorials at home. The all settings of the light are very important and I tested it from the begining we got poser6. Poser6 light setting used above is based on my own mini experiments and tests. About 2 weeks I go to start with new HDRI Project for Poser6 it will a very interesting Photo outdoor documentary so please check out my new Media ROOM section on my web, there I will from now upload all info, tests, experiments, tutorials, projects and freebies and everything only for Poser6 and some for Poser5 users. Thank you for your attention Hugs! Cath

Cath, you need to mirror the background image you cut from the IBL image - otherwise it won't match the IBL lighting. What method are you using to position the Specular Diffuse Sun?

Hey Paul, you see, you did your home work bad!! lol I don't have to do this because I used a latitude image to create the ProbeLight and not just a simple image and that is why it works, the light for the IBL works correct. I noticed it when I tested the first time with normal images. You have to use REAL ProbeLight Angular Map to let working the Poser6 IBL correct as I used in my StudioLight. I made a new Poser6 probe Light graphic so everyone can see how it work, everything based on probelight not tests. it very accurate graphic of the virtual poser6 probe light scene.

here is the latitude image 2:1 only this format will allow you to create correct Angular Maps working with poser6.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2197864

Cath, you should know by now that I always do my homework "good"! Your lightprobe layout is different to the others that have been posted on this forum - check Nerd3d's image at the above link - your green "scene centre" represents the "bottom" of the scene in Nerd's graphic. Regardless of this, you are using the FRONT of the IBL image as the BACKground. Which means you need to rotate the IBL image 180 degrees in the Y Axis, and flip the background image. Otherwise your IBL lighting is 180 degrees out from the background image. For example, if you have an IBL with a very bright FRONT (say, the sun), and dark LEFT, RIGHT and REAR, when you cut out your background, you are getting the bright FRONT (which will mean the sun will be appearing in the background), but when you render with the IBL image, the front of your scene will be brightly lit from the IBL image (the sun), but the back of your scene will be showing the sun! So it will opposite to matching. That's why I put together the python script - to fix all this up and get it all matching. So your tutorial works for very evenly lit IBL images, but not for images that have variation in them.

here more info about the 2

I'll have to try this out sometime this weekend. Thanks for your brillant ideas Cath :) The site is looking really good too :)

Paul Wrote: Regardless of this, you are using the FRONT of the IBL image as the BACKground. Which means you need to rotate the IBL image 180 degrees in the Y Axis, and flip the background image. Otherwise your IBL lighting is 180 degrees out from the background image No you don't have to flip anything, because I used panoramic image for that and created from that Angular maps and nothing have to be rotated, the light in the venus render come from behind the model as it was in the reality, the ::front:: name is used for the VIEW of the scene not for the light direction. Please wait I am not finished with everything yet. This correct methode allow you to create panoramic images in Bryce or Vue and import the light to Poser6 :) tip for the day! This above version is used for almost every software that use HDRI and IBL ;)..... Thank you Jeremy, I am happy you like my new Room on my website.

BookMark :O) This looks very interesting Cath!

Cath, that cloud that you've pulled out of the Lat/Long map as the BACKGROUND is actually what is illuminating the FRONT of the venus statue. So the lighting needs to be rotated 180 degrees, and the background image flipped.

Very interesting info Cath indeed. & I love the look & feel of the Media Room, I want to test out some things based on this info & add my $.02 over the weekend. Cheers

....

Paul, you are wrong, my information are based on HDRI and there you have only one Light probe in the world that use IBL. I set the sun light OFF, and the light you see on the Venus are from the other side from the cloud because when I rotate the scene then the other side of the venus is in light.

Message edited on: 06/16/2005 21:22

Cath, you have other sources of light that image other than the cloud - particular at the edges. See the attached render - think of that white spot in the middle of the IBL image as your cloud. This scene is entirely lit from that IBL light. I've used the same image as the background. See the cloud(spot) in the background. This is the same scenerio that your have used above, but I've blocked out all the other light to make it absolutely clear that the background doesn't match the scene lighting.

Message edited on: 06/16/2005 21:35

Paul and what you used for Angular map? it is total wrong to do this that why you get it this way, for what I upload the all informations? and as always you without to try it really out and stay close to the parameters know better, if this everything I say is boll, then the rest of the HDRI too. We speak about ration and numbers, and you put white spots on image and waiting for wonder. You total don't understand the work of the poser6 LightProbe if you show this way a preview. and yes the other light source are produced from the Image light, beause I used a real latitude image and converted it in correct way to use as Lightprobe what is used in Poser6.

and what you used for Angular map?
Your tutorial makes no reference to an Angular Map! I am following the steps in the tutorial. Are there other steps in there that are missing?

***and as always you without to try it really out and stay close to the parameters know better, if this everything I say is boll, then the rest of the HDRI too.

---

I'm not absolutely certain what you are saying here Cath, but for testing, I try and break it down into small pieces, so that at each step I know if something works, or it doesn't work. By using a complex IBL image (such as the sky map you used above), it's difficult to see what effect the IBL light is having, so I went for something simple - a white blob IBL image - which clearly illustrates the issue. With a white blob on the IBL image, the lighting is from the front, whilst the background shows the lighting from the rear - which is not consistent.

Ooops, forgot the image!

Face_off's right. Once Again!

I think you are are kidding here , the whole tutorial is based on Angular map with other words Lightprobe and you can see this from the first line in the first post. and what have to do the images you posted? I have not idea. If you converted mirrorball to Angular map and you think it is fine then much success.. One more time before I kill myself: You have to create Angular Map |LightProbe with Aspect ratio: 1:1 using Latitude panoramic image with the Aspect ratio: 2:1 and nothing else. What I can tell you more? you need maybe more imagination to understand the graphics because I can't write it down for you. Post number 3 will tell you everything you need to know, and one more time a FRONT is a front of the scene as the computer monitor is in the front of you. I don't wrote in the in post number 3 :: of the scene. I was for plan to finish about the sun light and other things but it make not sense anymore this topic is killed already again. I will upload everything again to my new Media Room so everyone please check out the whole finished story one more time . I will maybe use my own material so you will get the chance to download and use the same materials to get the same effect as expected but for sure when you render the scene you get the effect as promised and that is important. Thank you for the Attention Hugs! Cath

Cath, at no point does the tutorial mention angular maps! I am totally confused....

ashish_s_india it get not about right it get about the final effect of the work that is done, the visual effect. My Angular map graphic in post # 3 show the view of the poser6 LightProbe with the ZERO Ground on the Z X Y Orbit and the position of the light and it is done right.

Simple question - where do you position the IBL light and the camera ?

Message edited on: 06/17/2005 00:53

You don't have to, the IBL light is fixed in Poser6 scene. I used Aux Camera for this scene with ZOrbit :0 XOrbit:0 YOrbit:0

Message edited on: 06/17/2005 00:58

Paul wrote: at no point does the tutorial mention angular maps! I am totally confused.... then I will tell you go to the doctor and let check out your eyes lol hahahahaha I will not tell you what I think this time... but you get over the limit friend

raises hand uh, why if the majority of light from the image (now used as a lightball) is directly behind the statue ...is the statues shadow off at 7 o'clock instead of straight at the viewer at 6 o'clock??? if the 'sun' in the image were shown at the 1 o'clock position I would expect to see the shadow that is shown. I understand the angular map concept but using the flat panoramic gives no "top" or "bottom/ground" Cath - Really trying to understand, honest. English translation sometimes hard. New concept to Poser hard. You rocket scientist, me dumb farmer (not really, but sort of). Please to make easyest. And thank you, you have been trying and doing a lot on the subject, tutorials are wonderful, I just need more understanding.

This is what I get when I rotate the camera by 180 degrees

This is rendered with camera at zero position

MachineClaw : the sun shadow changed because the background is just only a background and if I change the focal it change the position you nee really create a sky-dome for things like this, I have a new one in production that works much better and is really fantastic. The flat panoramic graphic it show how the Angular Map looks like on a flat image, it allow you to create own light and light effects just in Photoshop, how to do this I will tell later , it is very cool way and very accurate. And I know sometimes I get to faster and to exciting about the things I do, I understand what I do and I can put it on my scene and renders but my English is not the same so sorry for the trouble.... I will make new tutorials with all information set by step so everyone can get it, I will make also a flash in real time so you don't need to read anything as only follow me on the screen. HDRI and IBL is not simple, I sit in this one year and still learn new things everyday. MungoPark : you got a nice effect, you created the sky light that represent here for real the shadow area, now only the sun light and done!

Message edited on: 06/17/2005 01:36

uh so shouldn't the figure be full on spot light'd (sun over cameras sholder) and fading off to darkness if the camera is fliped to 180 degree then ???? I did this once in lightwave with HDRShop and I used a image that was numbered. by rotaing the camera around in the scene the image mapped to the "ball" I could tell where I was in the scene, (also helped to have a photoshop layer I could turn off later for final render when I found the sweet spot lighting effect I was looking for). I see the sample picture of angular map, but I don't see how it applies to the mini tutorial. I think I'm losing braincells more and more with IBL AO HDRI whooit thingy ....

Cath - no problem. I understand the translation thing. Keep up the work, slow down, you have my and others attention. I personally think it's a hard subject and can get very confusing. Thanks for trying.

I think I will use a more simple maps next time. Regarding the figure that MungoPark posted was without the sun light that why it looks like with twinlight so was the map too. If I trun the camera 180degree the venus will be whole in the sun as the rest of the background. For doing things like this you need to make environments so it will be working always no matter what you do with the camera, I made this in the stonehenge so the scene can be used also for animations too.

I think it's worth a mention, so as not to confuse some people who are new to IBL, that Poser doesn't actually do HDRI lighting. You can adapt a .HDR lightprobe to work with the IBL in P6, but it's still LDR (low dynamic range). Once you save a .hdr to .jpg, .bmp, or .tga, it loses the high dynamic color range, and becomes LDR. Only floating-point .tiff, .hdr, .pic, and a few other formats retain the necessary pixel depth, and Poser doesn't support those AFAIK, and it would require running a process-intensive GI calculation to light the scene. I know you guys in this thread (Cath, Paul, etc.) already know this, but with the term HDRI being thrown around lately, I think it's something that might confuse people, and should be clarified. ;-)

Ok I think I am confused..(Neftis takes a big breath) everybody let's calm down;) First Thanks Cath for your tutorials, it requires time to do all those and it's very appreciated from all the comunity I am sure. Now I understand NADA about HDRI IBL LDR AKA LOL RMOF hehe;) So I am trying to understand slowly and thanks maxxxmodelz for the clarification.it's a good start:)

face_off wrote: " Cath, at no point does the tutorial mention angular maps! I am totally confused...." Angular Map = Lightprobe or Probelight (when it is made correctly, not just a picture of a silver ball, which will get some of desired result, but only to a point, & not as accurate). See Post #15, & then "wrap" that mentally around the diagram in post #3 :-) [sitting back with popcorn now to watch the fireworks smile...& it's not even 4th of July yet, lucky me] Please remember to.... "Love, Peace, & Pose" everyone.

max you are right and I think it is better if the users know a little bit more about HDRI before they start with LDRI what is a poor child from HDRI. one thing about Poser6 IBL is that you can create the illusion for the eyes and specialist can not recognise it in final render if done good.... a real photo don't include that much information as HDR Image so the process preparing the images is deeper as the user think, it hurt only to see what the user started to do with it and that is my point here to get them off from the totally wrong way of start. It is time to show poser in better light, I self uploaded couple images at CGTalk and with success for the first time people accepted the simple poser scenes with much of nice comments too so I think I am going good way and after so many years I think it is right time for that.... :)

I have a question that may sound stupid, but here goes... What is the advantage of HDRI over the IBL or low range light that Poser can do? The stuff I've seen so far done in Poser 6 from people like Mec4D, faceoff, maxxx, and others looks just as good as work I have seen done with HDRI in programs like Vue, Maya, 3dsmax, and Lightwave. So what would be the real advantage of having HDRI?

Mec4D wrote: "It is time to show poser in better light, I self uploaded couple images at CGTalk and with success for the first time people accepted the simple poser scenes with much of nice comments too so I think I am going good way and after so many years I think it is right time for that" Amen to that. A new day is dawning, so isn't it appropriate we "capture" the sun & put in inside P6? :-)

Attached Link: HDRI

For me for sure it is 10:15 AM and the sun is great!!! I feel good.... justpatrick : see what max wrote in post # 32 please go here and ready about !!!!!! it can be better

Used caths above angular map diagram for the light , and put her lattitude map on infinity cove for back ground. Placed a sphere with reflection on the ground. I took screen shots of everything and 4 veiws. looks good :) Cath your map is correct judging by what renders.

side veiw

back

opps

other side

it looks very nice! and that was the intention to show how the light works and where is what. Please see post number: 6 there you can see exact the light setting, the blue areas on the maps that are the light that show up above the ground plane in Poser6, the green area is the light from the floor, if you want get only light from the floor you need to set the blue sky area to black and the green area to the color you wish.. I made a disco ground also it looks like much fun. With the graphics for the Angular Map and the latitude map you can learn to controle better the IBL light in Poser6.

justpatrick, in a nutshell, HDRI & LDRI are the lighting information, how the environment & everything in it reacts to the light. HDRI records "all" of the available light information, which can then be used to recreate the lighting in a virtual atmosphere, changing brightness etc, accuratly & if the system allows for it, in real time. The IBL /LDRI only records a limited amount of light info, but with additional manipulation, can achieve the "look" of an HDRI scene. The advantage is that with HDRI It's "easier" to accuratly get your scene looking like it does in the "real world", & intergrate virtual & "real" elements together. http://www.debevec.org/ one of the best resources for HDRI & IBL/ Global Illumination work straight from the proverbial horses mouth :-)

Here I put a spherical reflection map on the ball. I used an outdoor sky hdri map. kinda like the ball is reflecting the outdoor sky on the front and the edges are picking up lots from the light and background. everything seems in phase for such a simple test.

wow 7 posts between when I responded to your post justpatrick & the post sticking...sigh oh well lol. Who said this thread was dead? The party's just getting started! Thanx jrabbit, just what the doctor ordered, & the "model" will probably help the lesson sink in (at least for the hetrosexual & lesbian population LOL...I joke I kid)

Yeh Cath is great ! Remember the sphere scene is lit by only one light and caths map. The clouds and enviornment on the sphere are only a reflection map. but the highlights , specular ect all come from the light !

if you use real outdoor Angular map you can change the image resolution to 1024, the IBL Contrast to 1.000000 how higer the contrast how more directe light with minder diffuse and colors in hsv node you can set the Saturatin to 0,500000 to avoide to much colors from the angular maps. The Intense of the IBL light 0,828283 to 0,500000. here is the graphic map so you can test self.

james with textures Poser6 setting without special shader nodes

half-right side