That little break in the muscle line (or whatever it is) seems to appear in V3 regardless of breast size or collar joint control (I think anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong.) Is there another combination of morphs to address this? thus far I've been smudging it out in post.... Thanks for your advice.

Very nice image/character, yum! I think you'll always get that 'break' - not entirely sure though. Of course a larger breast will make it more obvious - since a smaller breast will not tend to bring out the muscle/tendon line so clearly. Post sounds like a good solution to me :o) :] Fish

Just reviewed some of my own images - I have in fact never thought about this problem before - and I get the feeling that the 2 lines (1 from above, 1 from below) don't actually match in the mesh. So getting them to coincide is a matter of magnets/morphing - or post.

On smaller breasts, the problem doesn't arise at all - here's one of my V3 images, no post on that part of the image at all. The lines never meet so there's no problem.

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=470560 And here's another, no post in that part of the image here either: (This one is a hybrid, with V3 body and V2 head, but the body is pure V3) http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=712925

Vicki 2 didn't have as much of this, I see.
Here's one of my V2 images - it has a small amount of post right there, but then again she has very 'heavy' breasts and the mesh cracked up a bit. But still, the lines matched fairly well.

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=487320

:] Fish

Message edited on: 07/12/2005 05:01

The whole shoulder area is as bad as a lame duck. But, as an excuse, it must be said that it's a very, *very$ complicated joint area. And Poser's joint handling is a bit outdated. Normally, the breast should be fatty tissue on the pectoralis major muscle. The part of this muscle that comes from the breastbone/ribs should go under the deltoid (shoulder cap), whilst the part that comes from the collar bone (clavicle) should cross the fibres of the first part. The breast should move with the arm stretching upwards and react to gravity (softbodies. pun intended) And then there are other muscles, many of them. And the scapula bone. The crease of the arm/breast is far too high, so I always have to smile when people talk about realism. Just think about all the movements a shoulder girdle can perform. It is only fixed by one small skeletal joint, namely where the collarbone joints the breastbone, all the rest are muscles! try to imitate this in a 3D mesh without having weightmaps etc, and you'll get problems like the one you noticed.

Thanks for the replies. Fish, I see you're right about the smaller breasts having less of a problem. And I very much liked those images you linked to....

Aeneas, I agree, it all seems very complex. Particularly for a guy that doesn't have those things....

Message edited on: 07/12/2005 07:06

"I always have to smile when people talk about realism" You can smile all you like, Aeneas. I have never assumed or imagined for a second that V3 is 'realistic'. I only care whether the meshes I use fulfill the function I need them for. As a matter of fact I fairly seldom use V3. When such things as the disastrous armpit crease on V3 are wrong (wayyy too high), I fix it in post. I would certainly have preferred a mesh that didn't have this problem as much, but V3 has other advantages that make her useable anyway. As you rightly conclude, the Poser method for building meshes and joints has its limitations. :] Fish

.

I think this is mostly due to the way V3 is rigged, her collars extend rather far into her chest. All rigging is a compromise; it is going to work better in some poses than in others. I think DAZ was more intrested in getting the up-down right than the front-back. I'm glad they didn't put any extra JCM in for this, matching her up down JCM in clothing is a nightmare already. ;-) Here is GJ in a similar pose, to show a different way of doing it; she is rigged more old-style, with collars that don't extend so far, though I did extend them farther than stock Jessi, though.

I 've tried to fix it with mags but, as stated above, it's just not that easy. Posermatic (in MP)got close from the front but the side is really complex. Flesh has a twist as it rolls between chest and breast too. This is with a quick clone tool in post.

I never noticed that particular crease before. The PoserMatic Natural Gravity Morphs took care of some of the bad creases that show up in front, as richardson said, but after playing with the NGM a bit to see how that side crease is affected, it's not affected at alll. I think it would be hard to make a universal fix like a magnet. It looks like the crease is very sensitive to both pose and morph. I think it's far easier to deal with in post-render touch-ups rather than building custom magnets that won't necessarily work from morph to morph or pose to pose. linkdink, that is a stunning character, by the way.

Thanks again for all the responses. It does seem that fixing it in post is the easiest thing at this point. To that end, I'm looking for a basic (real) model shot from the side to show how it's supposed to look, like Richardson's image. Oh, and if you'd like to see the final image of that character above (Lany by idler168 aka B-Man), see my gallery at: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=999743&Start=1&Artist=linkdink&ByArtist=Yes