Been thinking about upgrading my ancient poser, but things look pretty confusing. Since most of us seem to be using those Daz figures and clothes, is there any point in using Poser at all, especially if we export our figures in either 2D or 3D? Why not just use Daz studio? Are there any disadvantages? I always found poser frustrating to use, like having to paint my own clothes rather than endlessly searching for a garment that looks and fits right. And that cluttered "poses" folder that contained not only poses, but textures, hair, clothing stuff and all sorts of unrelated clutter, would drive me insane.

Poser 6 is far superior to DS [IMHO]. Also Poser 6 handles standard folder hierarchy very easily so it is simple to set up your runtime how YOU want it. Then there are the obvious new lighting elements in Poser 6 that DS can't do, not to mention the "area render" which is really cool, where you just put a box round the bit you want to see and that's all it does, which is great when you're trying to get something just right by a little tweak here and there! I've tried both and for me it's Poser6 even witht he bugs it still has after SR1. Just my opinion and not intended to rubbish DS or the people that use it, everyone to their own! thefixer, poser coord.

I think for a free prog is D|S very good but still far behind P6 (except the 3D GL-engine)

D/S is still Beta and a damn good one at that. Plus of course it's free. I believe it will someday surpase Poser given time. Look how long it took CL to get Poser where it's at & it still has tons of problems. I'd hold off on buying P6 unless ya got the $$ and need it's bells & whistles NOW!! Just an opinion............ I use both but like D/S better and better all the time.

Question for thefixer: Area Render (Poser6), Spot Render (DAZ Studio) what's the dif if any?

Message edited on: 08/11/2005 12:58

p6 has tons of problems???

"p6 has tons of problems???" Nope. It has a few quirks but it's generally stable. On my system, at least.

The "tons of problems", I really believe, is on an individual basis. A problem one has, another doesn't have and there doesn't seem to be any pattern to it. I was one of the lucky ones. I waited several months before I got P6. When I did, I didn't have ANY of the problems others were having with the exception of P6 hanging on particular objects. But that problem is with the object itself and not Poser. That problem was solved with a free utility called "Stomp". I updated when SR1 came out, even though I wasn't having problems. I LOVE P6 and wouldn't trade it for anything!!!!!

Strixowl: I wasn't aware DS had that particular thing so apologies for that, Poser 6 still has it though on all the other lighting stuff but as you say it may [or not] surpass poser one day. It is my view that the only thing holding Poser back at the moment is the "firefly" render engine. Improve that, or get something better and it will be insurmountable in it's price range! Again, just my opinion! thefixer, poser coord.

I bought P6 at the pre sale but did not install until I got a new PC but even then I did not have 90% of the problems some were experiencing I guess I was one of the lucky ones or maybe it was because it was the only major app running on the machine so it had the run of things. But again I am not one who render twelve fully clothes and textured milli figures, the entire Dystopia environment, the Poserworks Space station various planet props and the magic cube ;) So I never really chimed in on previous discussions

I haven't had any major problems with P6. It's the best version yet and has some great features. However, my preferred app for a lot of things, is daz studio. Not that it can do everything P6 can do. No way. But I find it much more pleasant to work in. If I were thinking of buying right now, I''d probably get DS first (it's free, after all), try it out, and if I found it wasn't enough, pay the money for P6. It really depends on how far you want to go in 3d. DS is good for most general use, and costs nothing. P6 will give you more advanced options and you pay for it. mac

"Tons of problems"...strixowl, upgrade from Poser 3 and you might see some of those go away. Pardon the sarcasm but "tons of problems" is a little over the top in itself. P6 is the most stable Poser has been. With the addition of the SR1, it's a solid functioning CG program that is a reliable part of the creative toolbox. D/S on the other hand is more promises than deliveries. Imho its not yet capable of playing serious ball when it comes to creative realization. Not to say it won't be someday but as of now, its not yet there. I've used them both, and imho D/S is more of a time waster.

It all depends on what you want. If you don't need advanced material options such as shader trees, raytraced reflection/refraction (think metal, glass and water!), displacement mapping, animated materials, then D|S is good enough. In my experience Poser can handle larger scenes than D|S. I must admit that I don't have recent experience with D|S, it might have improved in the meantime, but the version I tried totally flipped out with one Michael 3, one Victoria 3 (both dressed in the RDNA Fantasy armor) riding two DAZ Chargers. Poser 5 had no trouble rendering the scene, D|S crashed on loading the scene (or recreating the scene). Advanced lighting options such as image-based lighting (HDRI), ambient occlusion, soft raytraced shadows are things you won't find in D|S. And of course no dynamic cloth or hair. P6 SR1 is pretty stable. It could handle up to 8 Millenium 3 figures (even rendering them at draft settings!) without problems. I'd say D|S is only useful if you use it in combination with Bryce. But if you use (or want to use) Vue or Mojoworld for your environments, Poser is the way to go. D}S is free, but Poser 6 is very, very good value for money. Uhm - you'll need a pretty recent machine with lots of RAM to get the most out of Poser. But that's true for any 3D program...

Sorry svdl. I see these claims but they're wrong. Studio has raytracing, reflection, refraction, displacement , and they are properly implemented. It doesn't have animated materials. It can render reflected displacement. Try that in Poser 6. Advanced lighting options. Raytraced shadows it has, shadow mapping it has, IBL (not HDRI) and AO it has. As far as I know Poser 6 uses IBL not HDRI - similar but different. As far as IBL in Studio is concerned, it's a hack at the moment and has to be manually adjusted via the light scripts. No doubt it will be implemented properly at some point So, please. When saying Studio can't do things. Please do make sure you're talking about the current version and not one that is somewhere in the past or something based on "what so and so said. Thanks. On that note. Poser 6 offers some facilities that Studio doesn't (yet), the best of which is by far the materials room. Immensely powerful if you have the time and patience to learn it. There are other toys, like dynamic cloth and hair, face room, morph putty, setup room. Development and creation tools. All of which do not have their equivalent in Studio yet. Point being. Studio is studio and (currently) free. It is not Poser. It is not intended to be Poser. Poser is Poser and will cost around 189 dollars, it is not intended to be Studio. Poser is around a decade old, had more development time and has more in it and, as mentioned above. You pay for that. Studio is beta, around two years old in development and has less in it, but more is coming - eventually, some of which will have to be paid for.

svdl, You might want to try the current version of DS. It's the 1st Release Candidate and it's very stable indeed. Version 1.0 is very near now. 'Advanced lighting options such as image-based lighting (HDRI), ambient occlusion, soft raytraced shadows are things you won't find in D|S' Well, strictly speaking, no. But you can hack the light shaders to get IBL in DS. Bit of a pain for most users, mind you, but it can be done. Actually, I find soft raytraced shadows are far better in DS than P6, but that's only my opinion. Still, without a doubt, P6 is good value for money. No matter how much I despair of poser at times, you can't beat it's price for a 3d app. Oh and that's a good point about Bryce/Vue. DS is strongly integrated with Bryce and Poser with Vue/Shade. mac

I admit that I tested D|S several months ago, just after I purchased Bryce 5. My objective was doing larger scenes, with more figures and a decent landscape. I tried the Poser to Bryce route via .OBJ export, which is a total mess in Bryce 5.01. So I tried the route via D|S and its Bryce exporter. Nothing but crashes, even on simple scenes. Then I ditched them, both Bryce and D|S, and went for Poser/Vue. That combo has its problems, of course, but usually it WORKS.

By the way, I won't go for D|S as long as it doesn't have dynamic cloth. I use dynamic cloth in 2 out of 3 scenes - for the time being I'll stick with Poser.

The poser/vue combination via the importer utility is supposed to be an excellent solution. I know several people who use Poser only to pose figures and import them to vue. They are more than happy with it even with the occassional glitch (like that never happens in any other software huh?) The Studio/Bryce combo had - shall we say - some teething problems. I personally think it was a mistake to tie the two apps so closely together, especially as one is still beta and changing. A mistake that has been graphically illustrated a couple times with Studio trashing Bryce quite happily. From my personal experience Studio/Bryce works extremely well indeed. I do however know one or two people who have had a nightmare getting the two to co-operate. I haven't tried Studio to Bryce 5 either directly through obj import or through the utility Daz released. The combination with Bryce 5.5 - for me anyway - works seamlessly. As I don't have Vue I can't be fair in any comment on the integration with Poser, I only know what I have been told, and most of that is good.

Oh, I and many others can assure you that Poser-to-Vue integration is excellent. Yes, there are some glitches, but they're quite minor (e.g. reflections are best re-done inside Vue, P5/P6 procedurals don't export.) I had problems with D|S/Bryce at first, but more recently no real problems. Still IMHO Poser-to-Vue remains the superior relationship for a number of reasons. I like having all these options. I'm very fond of DAZ Studio and look forward to its development. An investment into an upgrade to Poser 6 is well worth it. For me, there's no real "versus" here unless the consideration is one of personal finances.

As a very happy P6 user, I can't wait for a non-beta version of D|S. I'll gladly use both or either, depending on which can do what I want. Don't really see the point in choosing one over the other unless you're totally broke, in which case D|S wins because it's free. Kinda like the Gibson/Fender wars seen on a lot of guitar forums. I own both and love both. My Strat cuts through when I need something sharp, the Lester blows everything out of the way when I need a big, huge BLAST. Horses for courses, as they say. Long live EF, long live DAZ.

SamTherapy, that's funny. I know, I have both too. LP is easier to play, not quite so much of a reach when playing an F. Also string tension is less with Gibson. Wouldn't get rid of my Strat for anything or my LP for that mater. With that said, It goes the same for the 2 apps. Why limit yourself to 1 option.

I always found poser frustrating to use, like having to paint my own clothes rather than endlessly searching for a garment that looks and fits right.

If that's your main complaint, you should probably go with Poser 6. You can use dynamic clothing, which tends to fit better. You'll also have magnets to adjust the fit, which D|S doesn't have yet.

But D|S is free, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. I've found it unstable and frustrating, but some people love it.

Here's something to keep in mind: Even though they may have their bugs, both Poser 5 and Poser 6 are final products. This means that objects, characters, scenes, etc, should work fine. (I say "should" since you may have to download the latest service pack.) DAZ|Studio is still in the beta stage, which means that it is an unfinished product. Your scenes may work fine in the current version, but who knows what will happen in the final version... or even in the next beta version. --John

Try this comparison: You can go for a sightseeing tour on a nice free citybyke (D/S), or a pricey Guzzi California Stone (Poser6). You'll enjoy both the tours, but in a different way. BTW: prior SR1 in Poser I had the dreaded "Out of Memory error" once every 5-6 renders, now it never happened again (and my PC isn't top of the line, AMD 2500 XP with 1 Gig ram and Radeon 9800 Pro).

No comparisment at all. DAZ Studio can be compared to Poser 4 well (without pro-pack). Poser 4 is ancient. Poser 6 is way ahead of Poser 4 (of course it is), so Poser 6 is way ahead of D/S. I've tried D/S a number of times and even though it's completely free I do find a waste of donwload and time. D/S is unstable, buggy and the programming is so horribly done that thy can't even reach v1.0 even though DAZ has been announcing it for more then a year. Poser will be always be ahead of D/S as long as someone keeps on working on it. Imo if DAZ cannot create something better the Poser 4 in the year 2005, then why spent all this time and energy on it. Their prices of Poser content could be so much lower if they didn't have to pay for all of these Poser & Bryce programmers which only can create outdated stuff and connot think of something new at all. All these programmers cost money and money is made through the price of the content. So, D/S isn't free at all you pay for it big time (even none D/S users) when buying content at DAZ. Why settle for junk if you can have good stuff instead, Poser is the way to go!

I've never read so much crap in all my life! mac

Crap is putting it mildly mac. Could say more but trying to stay out of trouble :-)

Well, that leads to another question: Let's say we move to Poser 6 / Vue, can we live without Daz stuff? Will we need to keep upgrading to Michael 4...5...6...7...14 and Victoria 4...5...6..7...14? ... and their associated clothes which may also need perpetual upgrading?

That's you're own choice. There's more then DAZ in this world. A lot of us are still on M2 & V2 since they still work very well and we prefer them before the newer figures. So no, you don't need to upgrade figures at all. You don't need to follow the latest hype, at a certain point in time you can be content with the content you do have.