Attached Link: 5D ON C|net

I have been waiting for this news since I first heard the rumors of it. Now I'll have to wait another year to save the money, and the prices to drop:{

It will be soon down under $3K Great Cam, for everyone who can't afford a 1 series. This one will give Nikons D2x a hard time.

When it drops below 3k will be very tempted. Also announces a new 24-105 f4L IS lens too, wouldnt mind that either!

The rumors are FLYIN' over a the Canon forum on DPreview! There's a thread that this new cam may signal the DEATH of the prosumer camera as we know it (at least in Canons case) apparently there's more money to be made in LENSES these days and those prosumer fixed lens cams are no longer the bread & butter the used to be! Over there in ALOT of the forums...they get so caught up in the tech aspects of a a camera...almost to obsession! Some fun reads! The 5D is not even out yet (for sale) and some are rippin it up! Go figure!??!

It may be a fair assumption that the 5D and what ever follows may well end or greatly reduce the 2 fugure numbered cameras (20D etc) in time. Similar body size and weight (much more manageable than the 1 series for many) When I saw the initial leek about the 5D I was sure it was a hoax really didnt think a ff sensor would go into a camera that small (wrong) the only thing I thought might be true it was August (Canons favourite month for BIG announcements) The price of the ff sensor at present will probably determine how it all goes in terms of future product lines. Of course the lenses also hold their price very well to in comparison. Bit silly though to run down the 5D before anyone has even got their hands on one. Performance wise though the 5D is a little slower than the 20D, maybe a compromise (my opinion) of having a ff sensor, to be fair 3fps is plenty for most things with a few exceptions, fast sports etc. But for studio and landscapes not a problem. 12MP and a ff sensor must be a big plus, nice big viewfinder, very low noise and huge prints. I can get superb A3's out of the now ancient 10D so at least A2's maybe even A1 from the 5D, I have seen great A2 + from the 1D MK II Hey I'm a slow shooter so would be fine for me. Way too expensive but one can dream! Just my speculation and opinion though so there fore not really with the fonts its written with lol Simon

Attached Link: http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolog/reviews/canon/canon_eos_5d.php

Yes read that site and many others too. Depend how deep your pockets are! Like the look of the 24-105 too. Will wait and see what the street price will be eh? I was holding out for the 30(whatever)D but that may not happen for a while judging by this. ??!!?? Who knows

I just wonder..... How many of us on here can really afford $4K for this? Yes- it's a lot of hooplah... but how many people on here actually shoot with something of this caliber? It's a great announcement, but anyone shooting with such a high level of camera and using it to post on here is not using it to its potential. remember... It's the eye behind that viewfinder as opposed to the camera that makes the great images!

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 00:44

Attached Link: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-announce.shtml

This camera will hit like a hammer. It's cheap. It has great resolution is fast enough 3fps is more than most of us need. And now who buys that camera? Lot's of people. Why does someone buy the 20D ... cause there is nothing between the 20D and the 1DsMk2, yet. Most of them would spend even more Money than their 1500 for the 20D, but not $7K for the 1DsMk2. Now there is the 5D and I'm very sure it will drop below $3K very soon. (Only a little thing ;-) Then the old 10D was anounced they talked about a price of $2,5K I'm sure that this will be my second body.

Hard enough to justify buying the 20D when you're not making serious money from it. I've made some "word-of-mouth" money from mine but to drop 4K (or so) for another camera would be hard to justify for me (and, I assume, a significant amount of other people). And, for 20D owners, the "S" lenses won't work, I think. The 20D already does as well/better than the typical 35mm film camera in ability to print. In my day, getting a nice crisp 11 x 14 from film was about the best you could hope for. 11 x 14 from a 20D is a breeze. So, unles one is shooting posters (LOL), why the race to have the biggest megapixels? Just to put the medium formats out of business? I guess in 10 years, something producing only 50 megapixels will be considered a "snapshot" camera. Or maybe it will be the next "throwaway" camera you pick up at Walmart in a hurry.

We're all tech obsessed....manufacturers know this and cater to this way of thinking! DeviousMoose re-stated something that's been said many times in the past! It's NOT the camera...its the person behind it that captures the magic moment! All the new bells & whistles will NOT improve a persons skill! They "might" make things easier in ways but someone HAS to THINK about what is being capture, compose the shot and press the shutter! DSLR are pretty expandable...with the lenses! That's one advantage to owning one! But...3k is bucho dollars to spend! I guess if you SAY you're a Pro-Photographer...you could write it off as a business expense! (hmmmmmm?!??!) It is fun to speculate what will be down the road... I don't think I'll be around to see the day when a digital camera will fit on a contact lens! (should I copyright that idea!?!?) L8r! Joe

Yeah, all this talk is great and it is fun to dream but Devious does remind us of that good point. Unless you doing professional work, or have a lot of money to burn, this camera falls into the "nice to have" and not "necessary" category. Great image can come from a camera phone for goodness sake! Personally, this is out of my price range even if it dropped to $2k. What is interesting is the impact it and future cameras will have on the marketplace in the coming years. Still, if $4K fell in my lap....nah, I'd probably pay off some debts with that. I don't think the prosumer market will dry up for a while, there are amatuers out there who don't want to have to worry about changing lenses and are happy with a fixed lense camera. The optical zoom range continues to improve and with in-camera and lense stabilizers, who needs interchangeable lenses? I'm not talking pro of course and I know the benefits of having many lenses at your disposal, but if you are on a budget, one does just fine these days.

I havent earnt one single cent on any of my photos....but i sure like them gadgets. SO ME WANTS THAT ONE!!!! Unfortunatly i could never afford such a cam, so ill stay out of this discussion. Thanks for posting this thread though Kort, i sure enjoy reading up on new gadgets, gives me something to dream about. And the good thing about new stuff like this popping up on the market, is that the products i CAN afford will drop in price. #:O)

My pleasure...I'm a gadget lover too. The more hi-tech and new the better. I don't OWN many, but I still like'em! :)

This one is for Ryno! If you put off today buying a camera waiting for this one to become affordable for you, once it does, something bigger and better will be out there. Go with the 20D if you have decided on the Canon line, as it is an awesome camera. I have personally played with the 20D and will be purchasing one just to be politically correct. And DM is right, it IS the person behind the camera not necessarily the camera that makes the image. Brenda :)

Yes... we are all "gadget junkies." Hell- Im even worse off- I'm surrounded by cameras all day! One thing that I have noticed though is that the customers coming in for the SLR's are few (I'm talking the OLY E-300, NIKON D70(s) & D50, and the CANON Rebel XT). Granted, I have been employed at the store for only a few months now, but I have seen only one customer come in & inquire about the 20D. That pretty much shows what the consumers & most photographers are looking at in reality. Most of what "serious" photographers are beginning to look at are the likes of the CANON S-2 or the SONY H-1. Both have 12x optical zoom (roughly 35-400mm)lenses with Image Stabilization and cost roughly $500- 1/8 of what the afforementioned camera costs (and thats before the lens). Yes- it may be "only" a 5mpix... but how large do we make our images? If I recall- a 5mpix would go to a good 13x19 image and stay somewhat sharp. For me- I'd rather work with what I have & Improve as well as challenge my imagination. However- It is nice to dream of a camera like that on occasion.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 13:11

Thanks for that behind the scene look at what camera shoppers are looking for Ken. What would you say are the most popular digital cameras right now, aside from the 12x zoom crowd? Thanks! I'm not sure what I'd do with 12MP images. The 8MP ones I currently take are unweilding enough. And I'd hate to think about how they'd eat up my storage. :) Still, it gives you the option to make a nice sized image from a small crop.

I think I'd have to agree with Brenda about waiting for the price to drop, and then seeing something a little better come out will be a forever dilemma. But the issue for me is I do sell my prints... sometimes, and I want the option of going larger, much larger. That combined with a special need I have at my store to go as wide angle as possible (full frame sensor = no multiplier) having to shoot furniture in tight spaces. I think the 5D is going to be the one. Although this could also be just a rationalization for a new toy.LOL

I also agree with Ken about the the person behind the camera making the image. The one thing I can't wait to not deal with is shutter lag that is a real handicap no matter who is behind the camera:}

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 14:52

Well, I have a 10D and I can't put 10.000 for a cam but I need a high performance cam for my job so this is what I was waiting for... Plus the full format captor.

Thanx for the comments regarding my comment on the photographer vs. the camera issue.... Jim- You brought up a very good & valid point about the shutter lag. In many cases it's true. However one doesn't have to spend more than $1000 to avoid that. A Canon Rebel XT (with lens) is just instantaneous for that price ($1000)and it's an 8mpix. Also there are other Digital SLR's that provide good performance in that area for less.

As for the printing of something poster size & "needing mondo megapixels"... I see many 20x30 posters being done where I work & being done on 6mpix cameras. Yes, when you scrutinize up close they may not be as sharp, BUT when you are back far enough to enjoy the whole image- it looks sharp at that distance. Remember- the viewer is usually standing back at least a few feet and cannot see a slight loss of sharpness at that point. By the way- One of the better poster size images I have seen came from a Nikon Coolpix 7900!

Also- to address TwoPynt's question- the majority of what is selling are the compacts, especially the ones that have the large screens on them. People seem to like the ease of use & carrying of them. The 3x optical zooms are starting to be more expanded (5x & 10x on some) on some newer models which is a HUGE plus. However, the models like the Canon S2 are very strong sellers and I've even had a couple that took that route (because of the convenience) over an SLR.

I might also add that this is one of the better threads that I have seen in this forum!!

I think that probably the biggest selling point of this camera is the FF sensor which for those that need to work in tight spaces is very important. The 12 odd MP may be a secondary to many, like had already been mentioned you dont need that much to make large prints.

For a commercial photographer 3K is not a bad deal, My friend who jumped from film to digital when the 1D MK II was released as stated quite clearly that it has actually saved him money in the long run, ok 3K is allot for a camera body, but he was spending that in film and processing every 6 months. After the initial 6 months all his work is almost all profit.

Supposing he keeps that camera for 2 years he would have saved 9k in film and processing, so could in theory spend another 3k on a new body and still be well in profit.

For the likes of myself spending 3k on a camera body just isnt justifiable, although it is very tempting, an I may even go that route.

So I presently have a 10D (great camera anyway) next the 5D so what next the 2.5D lol I am going backward to go forward.

Either way, the 5D will most likely change the DSLR market.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 20:03

LOL, I didn't intend for it to become some a discussion ground for cameras, but I'm glad it spawned some good exchanges. Thanks for filling me in on what most people are buying Ken. I would go with a 6MP camera and be happy with it in most situations I think. Noise isn't such an issue there either. DPreview likes the S2 Canon as well. I would definitely look at something that is comparable to that when it comes time for me to invest again in a camera. Simon, your friend saved $ on film and processing, but how much did he spend on ink, paper and the costs associated with printing from digital? Just a thought... :)

And what about the larger brighter viewfinder? just trying trying to keep this thread from ending:} thanks Kort for the post and for all the food for thought.

Yeah, those new 2+ inchers sound great, especially for tripod use. I know a lot of photographers still like to use the viewfinder...I use whatever works best for the situation. I love the totally articulated viewfinders as well. Still haven't found one that holds up well in bright sunlight though...but I've heard they exist. (I'm trying to keep it going too Jim) =]

I'll throw in my 5D's worth then :D I think they will sell these by the shed load - already heard of several people pre-ordering. It will make an ideal back up camera body for those who already have 1D cameras who at present have to buy a second 1D or else cope with the crop factor of smaller sensors. So that's the wedding photographers taken care of then, they have to have back up cameras as do most other professionals where they cannot risk losing the shots for the sake of not having a second camera body. Lots of people have not switched to digital yet because they would not compromise on having the smaller sensor, especially if they already have lenses designed for 35mm. But lets face it though I can see it being very popular with professionals it is clearly aimed at the amateur market. There have been people just dreaming of having a full frame digital camera and it has just come within reach of many. I don't think the pixel count is that relevant to these people after all it is the same pixel density as 20D, just because the sensor is larger it has more. What they want is the full frame to use their existing lenses and retain the wide angle capability for landscapes etc. Nice to see it has spot metering too. I think Ryno is referring to the viewfinder being brighter because the mirror and prism are larger for a full frame. The smaller size sensor cameras have the advantage of speed and crop factor for the nature and sports enthusiasts and with current sensor quality issues they will remain significantly cheaper, so don't see as this camera will challenge their market, it is aimed at different people. As devious mouse has rightly pointed out the biggest variable in any photograph is the photographer.

Great points and perspective Richard. Thanks for adding your 5D's to the mix. Target market and economic impact aside, I look forward to reading a full review when someone gets their hands on a sample.

TwoPynts: My friend was scanning film and making large prints from that, so I dont think it would have made a great difference on outgoing costs, other that the fact he is probably doing more now, which should mean he is selling more!?! I of course dont know the specifics of his business. In addition a fair part of his business is image supply so there is very little printing needed other than for his portfolio and test prints from that side of it. Onslow: I agree I think they will sell loads of these and wouldnt be too surprised if there is a shortage when the market gets going. Maybe I have misunderstood you, but I dont think this was aimed at the amateur market, more likely aimed to appeal to both pro and advanced amateur alike. Certainly I would love to get my hands on a FF DSLR, the 1Ds MK II is clearly way out of my budget, but the 5D is an achievable goal, also the short body really appeals to me, the 1 series bodys are a bit bulky for dragging up Monroes etc. The 12 + MP for me is secondary 8-10 would be enough for me. As for the screens on a DSLR you have to use the viewfinder anyway and always have done anyway, I find it easier. Although you can get an add on CMOS screen that fits into the viewfinder on a DSLR PS: Excellent thread.

Message edited on: 08/24/2005 15:03

Hehe, having used an SLR over half my life, I find it quite distastful to use a camera where I look at a picture on the back (UGH!). I can hardly tell if it's in focus! Give me TTL focusing/viewing any day!

Actually Richard was right. I was refering to the larger mirror and prism. I also can't see much on those LCDs I prefer to look through the lens,but I already have bad eyes and the smaller darker viewfinders are a pain for me to work with in low light. There are going to be sometimes when I will miss the articulated viewfinder on my G5 like candids, low and high angles, and shooting over crowds. But years ago I used to shoot from the hip and I'm sure I can pick it back up again:}

Ahhh, I thought you might be a hipster. I loved using my father's old TopCon that way. You could disconnet the eyepiece and look down on to an internal viewing screen. Very cool.

Yes it's lots of Money, but I'm very certain that Canon will sell this thing like hell. Why ..? Cause there is no other Camera like that out there. So I can only say buy Canon Stock an be happy ;-)

Wow Kort would you believe that my first SLR was Beseler Topcon D1 and I had three lens for it. I was the coolest geek kid in our high school photo club. I miss the days of manual focus, light meters, figuring flash indexes, and the smell of the dark room...OMG I'm have a flashback!!! Strike all that!!! I would never go back to film, I love digital:}

Ahh, those were the days, weren't they? The anticipation of waiting for your photos to develop, not knowing if they came out well or not. After a few years of instant gratification though, I doubt I could go back to that. =]

Very cool that you had a Topcon as well! Heavy things, weren't they? --EDIT-- I think the time to buy Canon stock was years ago. ;^]

Message edited on: 08/26/2005 13:33

In a related item, I wonder if this kind of news signals any kind of "doom" for the "S" lenses.

Um call me daft but what are "S" lenses? I assume they are the kit lenses. I think the mid range prosumer lenses will be fine, but the low end lenses will most likely suffer in a FF DSLR. I know the 28-135 IS, is perfectly ok on a D1 MK II as well as some third party ones. Of course in a perfect world we would only use Prime or L lenses. In reality not always an option due to their price.

Bloody Hell, I have only just got me a 350D (digital rebel for everyone not from the uk) Well I suppose its a standard EF fitting, so I only have to upgrade the body, but seems like its going to be a great macro camera, will have to see how it handles infra-red.

3fps is more then plenty for my needs.

And a FF sensor is not that important, as long as I get what I want, I aint too bothered, anyway price wise its way out of my league, I think I am doing quality work with my 350D and a variety of second hand lenses from jacobs and jessops (got about 6 now, from 16.00 to 90 UK pounds in price) I aint makin money from my prints, but as for the FF, dont think its that necessary, yes we are all gadget freaks, but rather work with what I have. I have gone right upto A2 size with no loss and a little noise creeping, but i like the noise. Finally, work with what you have, not what you want.

Message edited on: 09/01/2005 12:03