I realize this is the Carrara forum, but Hex and Carrara are made by Eovia, and there are no forums for either Hex or Silo so thought I'd chance posting the question here -

I have Hexagon and have been looking at Silo... for now the pricing is similar. Hex is great but Silo looks like a lot more features and some awesome additions coming in the next upgrade.... anyone here made comparisons? Any opinions?

thanks,
Nate

Mmmh, i like the way hexagon working because i was an Amapi user for long time. But Silo seems to be more stable and have some technologies that Hexagon don't have (topology brush is one of them, really useful). To be honest i don't like both, the better choice on the market today is modo for sure, but it have another price. It depend much on what kind of user you are, if you are a pro, buy modo without doubts, if not hexagon or silo are both good modelers. HTH -TOXE

I'd disagree with Modo a bit. Its nice, but you have the same tools and functionality in both Silo and Hexagon. The only advantage would be that you get a 201 upgrade for free and would then get the renderer and texturing capabilities. I'd say if you have Hexagon then use it, it has all the necessary tools to model. And there always will be a program that has more features that you think you'll need. Though if you do have the finances and need a rendering and texturing program then Modo is a nice deal.

TOXE, what do you use the Silo topology brush for? It seems to be mainly meant for reducing the complexity of imported objects, and since I don't import a lot of objects I haven't looked at it much. Is it useful on an everyday basis? - Joe

By the way, I use Silo and I find that it works nicely with Carrara. I often make a model in Silo, then turn off the smoothing and export it as an obj file, which Carrara imports perfectly. Then I smooth it again in Carrara and it's just as good as if I had made it in Carrara in the first place. The smoothing algorithms are very similar if not identical, so this works well. The only drawback is that if I had creased some edges in Silo I have to re-crease them in Carrara, but this is not usually a big deal. I don't use Hexagon, but I would assume that it works at least as smoothly with Carrara as Silo does, or maybe much more smoothly. But it's worth mentioning that Silo does work well. As an aside, I must say I've always been very pleased with Carrara's importing tools. I've brought in all kinds of stuff from unknown sources, and the results are almost always perfect. Years ago when DXF was the standard you'd sometimes try to import a spaceship and end up with nothing but three triangles and a vertex floating in nowhereland. - Joe

I was a beta tester for Hex and recently got Silo for work.
Here's the main difference for me between the two:
Silo seems to be geared totally for box modelling whereas Hex is geared for box modelling and modelling from polylines. If you are someone who imports Illustrator paths to build your models then you are out of luck with Silo. The specs on the Silo upgrade doesn't mention Illustrator import either. Hex on the other hand will import Illustrator paths(although not ones originally made in FreeHand unfortunately). Hex also has deformers which Silo doesn't.
Hex has a fair bit more functions than Silo but you pay a price for it: It costs a little more and requires faster hardware than Silo. Don't get me wrong, Hex ran fine on my G4 mac but Silo whizzed through anything I threw at it with ease. I think both are fine modellers as is modo but when you pay as much as they are asking for modo it should be better.

Message edited on: 08/30/2005 17:38

I have bought two.Hex seems have more features than Silo but i prefer Silo interface and speed.But for now ,if i only have Hexagone ,maybe i would not buy Silo or wait to see version 2 of Silo before decision.

I tried the Hexagon demo and liked it but didn't give it much time before the thing expired. But if you've got it already then you'll know whether you like it or not. I have Silo and like it very much. I especially like its speed and the way you can customize the UI and shortcuts pretty much anyway you want (you can even make your own buttons if you want). It has a few things Hexagon doesn't. The Bridge tool is a very quick way to build up volume in a model. And the topology brush has already been mention. I think alot of people assume that this is simply for tidying up topology but it is a very straight forward way of modelling clothes or anything else that has to conform to another model. Anyone buying Silo now won't have to pay for the upgrade to 2.0 which is promised by the end of the year. That will include a UV editor and displacement painting. Silo also has an active community with which the programmers are regular posters. There's also a demo version, so you can try it!

I have to agree with TOXE - get MODO if you can if not then Silo is a very good up and coming program with a strong following. If your goal is the professonal pipeline then without a doubt Modo is the clear choice. If your just planning on doing hobby stuff then Silo is the clear choice. Good luck...

MODO is a lot alike ZBrush. MODO can't do any detail work like ZBrush. ZBrush can do alot faster than MODO in modeling time. I am so thrilled to get my free upgrade to ZBrush 2.5 before December 2005!

I am not sure about Silo, it seem like a pure polygon modeling tool. I think Silo and ZBrush is a good combination. I am not happy with Vertex Modeling room in Carrara because it do not have symmeterical mouse-pointers. Frankly, I do not know what exactly you are looking for. If it is for your business investment then do some homework and be careful when you purchase porograms you want to use. I have wasted some hundreds on bad proggies.

Message edited on: 09/06/2005 10:44

Yes, there is some quility work done with ZBrush.

See modo 201 for more ZBrush-like features.

I have Modo and I am really looking forward to upgrading to 201. Did you see on the Luxology website that it only took them 20 minutes to port the PC version over the new Mac version running on Intel chips? I see Apple picking up a big share of the software market once the switch is complete.

I just tried MODO 102 evaluation. I am not really impressed with the modeling techique. It is unstable and hard to make a shape I really want. I am still in favor with ZBrush and Vertex Modeling in Carrara. One thing I hate about Vertex Modeling is the SHIFT KEY!! I have to use it everytime I want to make symmeterical modeling. All things in life is all symmeterical.

Unstable? Really? You're on mac or pc? I've found that on mac is a very stable application and it can work with a very complex models really good:-) BTW, modo is not in my arsenal of software because now i use wings, solidthinking vantage and zbrush 2 for modeling and i have all the tools that i need... -TOXE

I dont mean software unstable I mean modeling in Modo is unstable hard to make the shape you really want. Silo seem more reliable and easy to control the polygons.

So Infocentral can afford to pay for MODO but complains about the price for Carrara upgrade. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I would take Zbrush 2.5 over MODO and I have. I got it at Siggraph....Zbrush that is. Ringo

LOL!! You caught InfoCentral in very embarassing spot!

Not embarrassing at all! Like I said, Carrara 4 is way overpriced and Modo isn't. I'll gladly pay for a professional app but I would either been very loyal or very stupid to pay the price for a hobby app that calls itself pro and isn't. It is what it is, and it certainly isn't studio or Emmy material. LOL!!! You know this reminds me of a family story. My brother was an electrical engineer. My uncle worked in one of the sky scrapers as an building engineer. His job was general maintenance of the building. If a light goes out he fixes it. If the sink gets stopped up he fixes it. If the electricity goes out he finds out why and gets it back on. You get the picture. Well, my uncle shows my brother his blue work shirt with the patch on the breast that says "engineer" and tell him that he is an engineer just like him. My brother couldn't believe it! They may both have the title of engineer but that is where the similarity ends. You can call it "pro" and you can double the price to make it closer to the "pro" price, but that doesn't make it in the same league as the pros. Sorry :-(

.... uh uh Some engineers still can't do all of specific tasks because some of it is not their specialty. In some cases, patients need second opinion from other doctor for their symptom before they take their first doctor's recommendation. I played with MODO demo for awhile, it is sloppy modeling app. I am entitled to this opinion and I am certainly won't buy it. I would buy Silo but I am not really impressed with symmeterical function in it. So,.. I will wait for ZBrush upgrade.

I'm curious what one 3D app people would buy if they had enough money to?

It depends on the project and the business plan. I am individual animator and I want fast and simple 3D app is Poser, Vue, Carrara, and ZBrush. Those are good stuff for my project. I have very little disappointment with Carrara is Vertex Modeling room. I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I hate the SHIFT KEY!!! I am nut now and insane. Somebody take me back to state hospital!!

Hummmm...you seem to be repeating yourself. Is there something...perhaps...you hate? Well out with it man...

It is only function that really need to be fixed. When it is fixed, I'll be perfectly happy with Carrara.

Silo is a good program, holds a lot of promise, has a solid user base, and it well worth the $109. ZBrush is a fine program with plenty of quility work demonstrated but at $480 I'll have to see when Modo 201 is released. Hexagon on the other hand got 3D World's "stay away for now" recommendation.

I can't polygon model without the SHIFT key. Anyone notice how free programs aren't as popular to use as commercial programs are? Wings3D and Blender and POV-RAY have been around for a long time. Yet CGTalk doesn't get a whole lot of gallery posts from them.

Message edited on: 09/11/2005 00:16

I know several of the Poser merchants say they use Wings to make their clothes and props. Blender is quite unique in that it is the only program I know of that has a game engine built into it.

Shonner wrote: I can't polygon model without the SHIFT key. No, you can model without the SHIFT key if a button is built in next to all other buttons. I want eovia to implement symmeterical and a database to memorize which polygons to move from its own new hotpoint. I wish I had time to make new Vertex Modeling room for Carrara. :/ But I may have some time for beta tester for Eovia.

Attached Link: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/75065/eovia-hexagon.html

More Hexagon reviews. 1. Another 5 stars review. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/75065/eovia-hexagon.html 2. One more. http://www.planit3d.com/source/review_files/hexagon/hexagon_review1.html 3. http://www.architosh.com/news/2005-05/2005c-0511_hexagon-new.html

Ringo what about the symmeterical control? Hexagon dont have it. Those are not really honest review. So...

GWeb, I'm not sure what you mean by symmetrical control. If you check out some of the movies of Hexagon on Eovia's website you see a creature being modeled symmetrically. As the right side is pushed and pulled and added to, the left side updates in real time. That's what I think of when I hear Symmetrical control, but maybe I'm misinterpreting you.

Attached Link: http://www.eovia.com/products/hexagon/hexagon_inaction.asp

In both Amapi and Hexagon I can clone half of a female figure and mirror it. Then I can pull and push points, edges, and facets around on either half of the figure and the other half will mirror it (in real-time). I can leave one or both halves smoothed or un-smoothed as I model the figure. When I'm done fussing with it, I weld both halves together and apply smoothing to the entire figure. It takes three mouse clicks to clone a half and mirror it. Then I can add/delete polys to the figure as if it was one object.

I don't remember if I use the SHIFT key while doing any of this. It just happens without thinking about it.

Message edited on: 09/12/2005 21:32

I'm sorry GWeb, I must be dense. I went to http://www.eovia.com/products/hexagon/hexagon_inaction.asp and in the second IN ACTION piece, the Alien Creature's first movie called Extrusion I saw what I feel is symmetrical modeling. This isn't what you're talking about?

Yes that the one I was talking about!! I need more tutorial how to set the symmeterical up. When my wife is sleeping tonight. I will sneak into her purse and use her mastercard to order Hexagon. ;)

BTW, almost at the end of this long thread (!), one of the thing that i really need from a 3d sofwtare is the ability to manage a large number of polygon, and it seems that modo is the best of these three modelers in that sense... Ok, let's continue again:-) -TOXE

ZBrush 2.5 will handle more polys, too. Can't wait for it.

Can't wait too!:-)) -TOXE

"When my wife is sleeping tonight. I will sneak into her purse and use her mastercard to order Hexagon. ;)" Two weeks later credit card bill arrives... ...wife waits till husband is asleep and sneaks up into the computer room and pours a large cup of coffee into the computer and turns it on...ouch...

In Hexagon you can do symmetrical modeling. The Car video clip was not model that way...sorry. :-)

While I don't own Silo, I still think that Silo at $109 is a deal! And if it wern't for the fact that I own Modo I would pick it up in a flash. For me...its on to 201...

BTW, anyone here use Live Stage Pro?

Yes it is true that ZBrush can handle more polygons. But,.. it is not good at starting the modeling because zSphere have some complicated resolution. I think Hexagon is good at it and easy to make basic models. I always can export it into ZBrush for some detail work.

GWeb wrote the following concerning ZBrush: "But,.. it is not good at starting the modeling..." So, its back to Silo and Modo again as ZBrush just isn't good at modeling. The story continues...

Yeah, tell Brian Romero Osrcar winner for special effects that Z-Brush is not good at modeling or tell Meats Meier that also.:-) The fact is that Z-brush is now an industry standard very much like Photoshop is an industry standard.

Yes ZBrush is industry standard. I have no objection against it. I want to make clarification. ZBrush is not good at making a basic model from scratch. Did you notice that ZBrush do not have polygon, tessellate, or weld. ZBrush was implemented with Pixol Technology that works with 2D, 2.5D, and 3D. You really can't make a simple cube with 12 polys in ZBrush, you have to go through some tools to make it. You can not make a single polygon in ZBrush. Get my point now?

GWeb has no gallery, InfoCentral has no gallery. I think that says more than anything else.

I think this is the Carrara forum. -Kix