Yes, yes - yet another Hot 20 thread. But this time, I think I have a solution (knock on wood). I've noticed quite a few people decrying what they perceive to be a lack of quality in some of the Poser Hot20. Interestingly, I rarely hear the same about the Daz Monthly (or Platinum Club) Galleries. This may seem counterintuitive to some, because unlike the Renderosity Hot20 gallery, the DAZ3d Galleries actually award voucher prizes to the winners, so one would think that positioning on this list would be even more hotly debated (as there is money at stake). But this is not the case! Why not? (Just to clarify: DAZ3d.com has two types of galleries (1) the regular monthly galleries, whose entries are chosen privately by a DAZ staff member, and (2) The Platinum club galleries in which Platinum Club member get to vote for the top 4 picks. Neither generates much flammage) Maybe if we can isolate exactly what makes the DAZ gallery selections more acceptable, the renderosity team can consider applying it to the Hot 20 and thus eliminate most of the complaints and "flame battles" that typically ensue on this forum. What do you think? P.S. Please, please, PLEASE don't degrade this thread into a flame war. Civil responses only!

I'm going to just start this thread with this... We do understand your dissatisfaction with the current Hot 20 system & although we are unable to make immediate changes we are working on a more satisfactory feature, meanwhile please remember the Hot 20 is for entertainment purposes only. And as well as, you have a point. But, we are working on making the Hot 20 more friendly and something that everyone can agree on. Just have patience :) Also, please don't let this get out of hand. :) Thanks!!!! Ryuslilangel Poser Moderator

PC works, because to have a clone, you have to pay. So it is truly one vote per person. Notice the DAZ Gallery is chosen by Staff. That is the one that could be open to abuse and DAZ avoids that by staff selecting. Hot 20 has always been open to abuse. Anyone could post most anything and if they had enough friends or enough time could put their image at the top, regardless of content.

well, when the platinum gallery started, there was a lot of hue and outcry about exactly the same stuff as hot 20: people were posting at other sites, letting people know who they were (it's supposed to be blind voting), and then making it a popularity contest. if it "works", a pretty subjective standard, it's because there was actually some crackdown in this area. personally, i don't see a huge difference in the quality of the platinum club winners and the hot 20 people here; they're both usually very well executed, with fairly standard and predictable subject matter and a fair amount of postwork. but much fewer people complain in the daz forums period. and frankly, i haven't seen anyone say anything (positive or negative) about the daz galleries, except when there were complaints, unless it's to say their stuff got in or their stuff won. and the memory there is even shorter than here. sometime in the beginning of platinum club (i think beginning?), a romeo and juliette clothing set came out. they released it platinum, but were going to make it full price after a time. people, correctly, raised a fuss, because daz had specified (i forget where) that all platinum items would stay platinum. daz backed off and left them in the platinum club. recently, when the dolphin and a few other items came out at daz, they started at platinum and then left it. not a peep. interestingly, i think the daz staff picks gallery has pictures that are much more interesting on average. i think that's the best answer in any case- a gallery reviewed by a judge or judges unswayed by the opinions of the masses. even if i don't have the same taste as a reviewer, i generally find honest individual opinions interesting.

When I was still a PC Member at DAZ, there were quite a number of complaints about the PC Gallery. Also there have been complaints about the regular DAZ monthly galleries too. The biggest problem with that one is that the staff seems to have favourite artist that re-occur and a lot of them are somehow related to DAZ. Also the Staff has a noticable liking of cetain types of images. An even larger unfairness is that DAZ picks 2, 3 or even 4 images of the same artist in a month. The main complaints about the DAZ Monthly has been that it tends to get boring, due to the little variation in images. If you really take a good look at the DAZ Monthly you see that there is something completely wrong with it. I may have a solution perhaps for these kind of problems. Let's assume we start a fresh in December. The Hot20 'winners' from November are allowed to pick the images for the next month. They themselves are not allowed to be picked for a whole year. For the Januari Hot20 the December 'winners'make the pick. They themselves cannot be picked for a whole year. And so and so on. This way, you get a good variation of images, not always the same 'winners' and changing judges.

For my money, all these galleries are terrific. You get to look over some really great artwork, and it's all free!

Renderosity gives you lots of ways of finding notable artists; not just the Hot 20, but lists selected by three different categories; then there are the Artists of the Month; and most important of all, if you find an artist you like, you just click on their name and you can see a gallery of all their works. And of course, if it's a certain theme or subject matter you like, you can custom-select a listing of works in that category. Crime-a-knee!!!

Folks are so accustomed to the web these days that they don't realize what absolute nirvana it is compared to the old days when you had root through stacks and stacks of paperback books to find an old Frazetta cover! I have affectionate memories of those times, of course, and maybe they taught me to appreciate what we have now a lot more.

To say the truth, from my point of view the "roling-System" seems also nonsens as the Hot 20 Of November will also pick up most theire friends. Also, if them cant be vote again for 12 month, so what helps if one of them will does the masterrender of his/her life 3 months later? Anyway, is the Hot 20 really sooo urgent? Ladies and Gentlemen its for fun only and nobody can win a pot-plant for to be the No 1. So stay cool ;-)

daz backed off and left them in the platinum club. recently, when the dolphin and a few other items came out at daz, they started at platinum and then left it. not a peep. Not true, they never were PC. The Dolphin and the other few items were a special price sale for PC members. Not all of these special deals have been $1.99 and they were never in the PC Store(You got it in the Original Store and if you were a PC member you got a special price.), unlike the Romeo and Juliette products. Also, DAZ did change the rules after an issue with one of the contributors, where products were going to be pulled, so in the future they could pull an item if something did occur. Also, the big complaint about the DAZ Galleries recently has been that if an artist has more than one image added to Gallery for the month they only get one Voucher and there additional images still take up slots. I also do not think it is favoritism for artists, but favortism for product highlights. Highlight DAZ products and you will get in, but sometimes it has to be the right product as well. DAZ uses its galleries as marketing for their products, not to help the ego of some artist. DAZ also likes certain style and content, so often a great image will not get in, if it is not the right theme.

"I also do not think it is favoritism for artists, but favortism for product highlights. Highlight DAZ products and you will get in, but sometimes it has to be the right product as well. DAZ uses its galleries as marketing for their products, not to help the ego of some artist. DAZ also likes certain style and content, so often a great image will not get in, if it is not the right theme." If that is the case then these DAZ galleries are one big advertisment goverment, that makes me sick.

"If that is the case then these DAZ galleries are one big advertisment goverment, that makes me sick...."

That is the case. Customers see a gallery image that they like and they're inclined to buy whatever Daz products were used in its creation. Daz is a business, and businesses have a primary objective--to make a profit.

I think people forget this about Daz.

It surprised me that people were thanking Daz after the recent Treasure Hunt Contest. Daz didn't run the contest to amuse site visitors but to bring customers back to the site and get them looking at products so that the company could make more money. And I'm sure that Daz made a lot with that promotion.

I have to hand it to Daz with all of these contests, promotions, etc. (and even creating their own FREE version of Poser) they're doing a fantastic job marketing their products and bringing customers back to the site. They have a talented marketing staff. :-)

Sincerely... I discovered recently the infamous Top 20. I cant understand all this mess. I draw for fun. I post my drawings for showing them. If one of them has a lot of comments or hits, well. If one day somebody select one of my pics for a highlights gallery, well. But... my goal still is fun And bucks. I draw for bucks in some websites. A Top 20 dont give me more bucks. Only a few moment of glory. But... Im not interested on glory Why some of you are so worried for (I think) nonsenses? ;)

The main problem is people don't vote, if you look at today's Top 20 the first has 34 votes and the last only 16 votes. Is easy to arrange some friends and family to vote and you can have 20/30 or more votes. Instead if people were voting would be very much difficult to arrange 100 or 200 votes, unless you have a large family as "the Maffia".......

Hehehe, all sites have urban legends about "maffias" :D sometimes not so legends... ;)

"They have a talented marketing staff" Talented or not they for sure know how to use/abuse/misuse (take your pick) the weakness of every Poser & D/S user, the constant need for new content. At least we are led to believe that we need new content, otherwise were just not part of it all. This whole buy and buy some more mentality still puzzles me, it seems to be a virus getting hold of most Poser users. But when going through the various galleries around, I wonder what people do with all the content they do buy, it's not used in most images.

I'm gratified that there haven't been any wholesale attacks on Daz in this thread, whatever their marketplace/forum policies. But maybe the sincerest form of flattery in this case is imitation. If there are cash/merchandise prizes in regard to the hot 20, it may cease to be an unfortunate joke. Instead of a dumping ground for mediocre images that are voted in by cliques, they might get some serious competition and vastly increased voting if there were some real reward for entering. In consequence, it would increase sales of items used in winning images. As it is now, just telling one's pals to vote for one's image is not conducive to serious participation, as shown by that Legume guy several years ago.

Oh, theres a good idea. If theres almost a war for a free Top 20... with prices, bucks and coupons, blood could jump as fireworks... :D

But how would prices take care of the problem? It sure doesn't solve the problems at DAZ, still month after month the same people win even up to 4 times in one month. If you give away prices, you got to have a fair system too, otherwise it's even more unfair.

No te preocupes, Cassette - pienso que no hay mucho sangre por aqu si los veinte caliente ya son casi muertos ;-) . But I didn't know it was the same clique always winning at Daz. Either it means those guys are better than everyone else, or it means that there's something seriously wrong.

Creo que captaste mi tono de broma ;) Really I never tried to post at DAZ, so I dont know how work them with selections... but here some people looks like Top 20 is a question of life or death... hey, folks, more fun; life is too serious :D

But threads like these are fun, too me they are at least! Besides that it seems to bother a lot of people, so why not discuss it? I'm very glad that finally a lot more people express their unhappiness about all of this and it's paying off, R'dosity is looking into the matter. For me it's not life and dead, but I do take it serious. Also it is good to express concerns, feelings, likes and dislikes at times. Then again I know there's some people rather not have you do so. We can see something that is wrong, but close our eyes and try to ignore it. We can see something that is wrong, agree that something must be done about it, but not speak out against it (or even pretend we're not against it at all). Or as happens more and more around here (and I like it) we can see something that is wrong and speak out against it, hoping for a change. Now if only people would allow others to express themselves freely, without getting hurt, bashing, or tell them to shut up and do not allow opinions different then yours, this place would really be fun to come to.

the dolphin was in the platinum club. that's how i found it: looking at platinum club only merchandise. it even had a "platinum club: $1.99" area beneath it's price, not a "Sale: $1.99". that's putting it in platinum club. saying it's a "sale" available only to platinum club users and at platinum price... well, that's just splitting hairs in my opinion. i think the daz galleries do all have a "look." they're exclusive and biased to certain styles, content and even artists, yes. that also means they have a consistent style and "quality." in my mind, they're similar to any publication - you accept the editor's biases or don't bother submitting. i also think that anyone who is popular enough to get voted into the hot 20 here, will have enough friends to fill in the other 11 months, or even 52 weeks. i believe having winners vote in new pieces will only make a hot 20 clique, largely because that's how it works with jobs, awards and other opportunities.

Dolphin was in the regular Store. If you go and read the Forum after the sale ended, I believe several people complained because they did not know there was a special price for PC members. It might have had a PC tag on it, but I do not recall that. I do know it was in the regular store, not PC store. I know because I tried getting my 30% Off, since it was a DAZ Original offered at a special Price for PC members. I sometimes think that is why they stopped those types of deals, when people complain. Some people even complain about the Madness deals, like the current promotion. I do agree that they should have just offered a Coupon for PC Members for an additional percentage off. The problem with that is it would have allowed people to use Vouchers and I think they wanted to avoid that. I am not going to complain when they give good deals. DAZ has always been very fair, bad ad copy, but fair.

Message edited on: 09/04/2005 21:09

actually, when i saw it, it was in the platinum club. i didn't see it in the main store. i saw it as the first item in the "new platinum club items" section. don't know what else to say than that. maybe when you saw it, it was somewhere else.

They might have moved it after the first couple of days after realizing the problem. I bought it after the first couple of days of the promotion. (Might have been the last day.) I do recall the complaints in the thread about not realizing the deal for PC members, so if it was in the store it meant that those complainers never looked. I did not find out about it until I read it in the Forum, because I had not checked the regular store yet.(Yes, I have a pattern of how I check out sights like DAZ, RO, and others!)