I would like to get some feedback and advice on maybe switching from Poser to another software program like 3D Max. My system specs and money isn't really an issue. The reasons I'm considering switching is due to lack of innovation of more REAL female figures for Poser. There has been a stagnent market for some time now with no innovation in terms of new figures. I'm tired of looking at ken and barbie without anatomically correct models. Sure, V3, S3, etc. can be modeified, but it's a hack at best and not that good. Then you have issues with V3, S3 sitting poses in the nude that don't look real in comparison to life. The figures distort and were not designed for such. So, I'm left wondering if it's time to switch to something else and if so what? 3D Max? Where can I buy content and what content is out there will make a difference. Sure, it won't have all that V3 has had, but I can deal with that for more REAL renders. Where can I find content and what would you recommend if not Poser for my needs?

I hear that Anton's working on a female counterpart for Apollo ....

Well, I us Max to do my modeling, I wouldn't look at it as a replacement for Poser though. Aside from being tougher to learn, there isn't a library of cheap figures and clothing and stuff available for Max. What is available is mostly very, very expensive (hundreds od dollars) and designed for things like professional level animators who are going to make lots of changes. It isn't just buy it and plug it in. Max is about $2,700 too, I guess you know.

There is the new female Terai Yuki figure. And there is the opensource Poser Human Female. But let's hope Anton finishes her female character real soon. And regarding to figures for 3dsmax, I believe there is not as much content for the figures specifically designed for it. You would have to almost start from scratch. There are some muscle simulation plugins for 3dsmax, maya and the likes, but you would have to model your own figures. I guess that a single human figure for 3dsmax that is textured, rigged, animateable, with expression and body morphs, and with lots of clothing will cost you at least the same price as Poser does.

Attached Link: My "realistic" 3D comic

From my investigations, pre-made figures in the high-end apps are expensive and limited. Check out Turbosquid.com for some examples.

If your goal is 3D figures that look real, I would advise putting a little more time into working with Poser. I've gotten some results with it that satisfied my realism impulses (see link.) I think no matter what application you work with, you'll have to perform a "hack" to make the figure look right.

Furthermore, if you are not working with animation, the best 3D tool you can get is Photoshop. It has incredible power to modify figures and fix their problems, as well as enhancing images in all kinds of ways.

Attached Link: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/248996/SID/249164/blFP/1

stahlratte

"I hear that Anton's working on a female counterpart for Apollo ...." As if Max is an anatomically correct model....

Attached Link: You can do some pretty realistic stuff with Poser...

"As if Max is an anatomically correct model...." Maybe not "anatomically" correct in the strictest sense, but certainly rigged better than 90% (or more) of the figures currently available for Poser. In my opinion, that's more important. Unless you're into serious medical research. ;-)

WHO is anatomically correct? Me? You? Darwin? Gandhi? Bush? Apollo? He might not be the average off the street guy in the default morph, but morphable he is, and he is excelent at that.

If you want anatomically correct humans, then go for the Zygote Anatomy pack. But at US$13,995.00... http://www.contentparadise.com/user/product.php?productid=8883&cat=1325&page=1

Take up photography. :D

Anyway, 3DNeo asked for advice on 3d programs. With price being no objection. I would go for Maya Unlimited But could also be Softimage, Cinema4D, Lightwave.

I am moving on from Poser too. It's all about Crayolas and Legos from now on!

Attached Link: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=5708083

Attached Link: 3dsmax features (videos)

I have 5 models patiently waiting on that release & that feature in particular..early October last I heard :)

Message edited on: 09/23/2005 13:18

There is no completely 'distortion-free texture mapping' (generally, that is). I'll state this again: no 2D-3D sphere mapping can be without distortion! This isn't just a technical issue. Think of it this way - the reason why 'warp drives' are impossible (not just improbable) is that Einstein's validated limit of c (speed of light) is a physical barrier characteristic of the universe (for everything greater than or equal to a sub-atomic particle, anyway). It is not just a matter of building the correct technology - there is no technology that could surpass a universal physical limitation. Same for sphere mappings. There will always be distortion in a 2D planar representation of a 3D sphere (both ways). My point is that if they claim completely 'distortion-free' texture mapping, then they are being either consciously or unconsciously disingenuous. It would only take one sphere displaying distortions (which is impossible to avoid) to destroy that selling tactic. Heads are basically spheres in a categorical geometric sense. This would also include ovals, eggs, planets, ellipsoids, and anything else of this nature. ;) So, what are they really saying when they say 'distortion-free'?

"So, what are they really saying when they say 'distortion-free'?" I think they're saying it's much easier to take care of seams and most texture distortions caused by topology using this new method of UV unwrapping. Take a look at the feature description, and then download the demo when it's released to see for yourself what they're really saying. ;-) "Heads are basically spheres in a categorical geometric sense." Yes, but heads on human subD models usually start out as a box to avoid the pole distortion of spheres anyway.

So, what are they really saying when they say 'distortion-free'? They don't charge you for the distortion. its all free.

With no money as an object and 3dsmax as your choice, you'll want to look at the Brazil renderer for it.

Driver, I think this is my stop. The road ahead looks too technical...

Ultimate unwrap3d, for about $40 bucks will have pelt mapping any day now.

"'pelt-mapping' feature, which provides UV unwrapping using custom-placed seams and relax modifiers, which gives you distortion-free texture mapping. This is something the rest of the industry will be playing 'catch-up' on I'm sure. ;-)" Maya7 does it already. It is called 'Unfold' --Rebekah--

"Maya7 does it already. It is called 'Unfold'" You sure it's the same process, Rebekah? Reason being, the 'Unfold' option isn't a new one... Max has had that one in their UVW editor for some time now, but this pelt mapping is supposed to be a different routine, or process.

Ultimate unwrap3d, for about $40 bucks will have pelt mapping any day now.

I know. Bolthouse posted a preview video at the website a week ago. I'm looking forward to playing around with it, myself.

Max or Maya are in no way a replacement for Poser. Sure, you CAN create realistic models with them - but you have to do EVERYTHING yourself. Starting from modeling, boning, skinning, rigging, IK, lightning. You must be really good or have a professional team at hand to create something as good and versatile as Vicky3 or even better. And you will probably need to buy expensive plugins as well. Good luck!

Thanks everyone for all the replies, a lot of good info there. After reading and considering all angles, I think my decision is to hold out a little longer to see if anything comes out before December or early next year. Basically, I just get really frustrated at the lack of development for new Poser figures. As I said, a lot more could be done for Poser figures but no one has picked the ball up and ran. Instead, it appears the market is stagnent due to people being content with what's out there now. But that leaves those of us with the hardware and need for better REALISM out in the cold. It's just puzzling why 3D artists haven't given some real competition out there given the money that can be made from better figure designs. Back to the topic, I guess I do have a limit with a $13-14K package. Spending a few grand OK, but anything approaching that level I would want to study for first to just have a clue what I'm doing with the software. 3D Max or Myia may be OK in the future though. So, my question now is, since I want more real anatomy on female figures, I guess it's time to dig into Photoshop for post work and ignore the "hacks" out there for the nudes in order to do it in photoshop. NOTE: not talking about erotica (even though I guess many artists do them) but I want to get into 3D comic story telling that has adult themes to them. Given the above, can someone send me a PM here or give me advice on where to find brushes and other artwork for anatomy that can be used in photoshop for postwork on Poser figures? I think that's going to be my immediate solution is to get a good render the way I want and then worry about details in photoshop postwork. Any links to content for what I want or tutorials in Poser postwork and photoshop would be appreciated as well. Thanks again everyone, your input is appreciated.

Attached Link: A commercial tutorial for using Photoshop to dress up Poser renders

"You sure it's the same process, Rebekah? Reason being, the 'Unfold' option isn't a new one... Max has had that one in their UVW editor for some time now, but this pelt mapping is supposed to be a different routine, or process." I am fairly sure, I heard Les talking about it the other day, I can have him chime in later and let you know for sure. --Rebekah--

3DNeo, Let me suggest another angle for you, use Poser as the starting point (using all the things it does well) and then go over into a modeling package to make everything right. Then take everything into the package that will support the quality of render you want. (Richardson uses ZBrush and is doing amazing stuff.) The biggest limitation on V3 is the lack of available joint correction morphs (and she really needs them). Options there are to follow the richardson route or to port her and her morphs over to your highend app, rig her, and add in corrections as required. I am still debating which way to go, but do all my serious renders in LightWave because Firefly flat out refuses to try. BTW, V3 gives me about 1.5M polys to tweak at a level 3 subpatch in LW, so the issue is not enough to work with! Instead it is the rigging, sculpting, and shading. Before you know it, you'll be looking for 8000x10000 uncompressed Tif texture maps too...

Basically, I just get really frustrated at the lack of development for new Poser figures. i like lightwave. you can make your OWN figures, and then rig, pose animate, etc. all in one package. also, it's a low priced high end program.