Ive been interested in Vue Espirit for a while now but need insiders expert opinions. Can anyone help me with some questions? Beside my questions - toss in pro's and con's please!

Does Vue import Poser 5 (PZ3) easily and if so, does the textures import as well or just the object. With Bryce 5 (I have), its somewhat a pain to importing Poser into my Bryce 5 program (have to hunt down each .jpg texture and import as well).

How difficult is it to learn Vue Espirit? Im familiar with Bryce 5 creating terrains, sky, positioning lights and camera but haven't really creating too much with booleans and such (looking to do so "now"). Is Vue friendlier vs. Bryce creating objects or applying textures?

I would assume Vue comes with tutorials and if so, is it pretty good for newbies? Does the box version have a book and if so, is it good enough to teach those who are die hard readers?

Im thinking about downloading the trial version and read what you get. I did not recall anything about being able to import objects in the trial. Any idea if you can import using the trail version?

I really appreciate the assistance knowing everyones time is valuable. In a sense, I use to think Jasc Paint Shop Pro 8 was the cats meow (affordable) until my company handed me Adobe Photoshop 7 to master. They are both awesome programs but hands down, Photoshop is very powerful and flexible in my opinion. In comparison, is Vue the more powerful and inviting program vs. Bryce?

Thank you for assisting.
T'

Well, one thing if you're leaning towards Vue Esprit - if you have the money, go for Vue Infinite instead, simply because of the Ecosystem feature. It adds so much to the program, it really is worth the jump in price. It's also the little things, like save render settings, hyperVue for stills, that make it better. From my experience with Bryce, it renders really slowly, so if you value/need speed to meed deadlines, go for Vue. Vue does import Poser 5 files, but sometimes loses the textures - it's kind of finnicky. Vue is probably the easiest program to learn. A newb at 3d, like I was 6 months ago, learned it in a flash - easy as pie, piece of cake. The advantage ofBryce is that many models on the net are only in obp format, and those can only be read by Bryce and can't be converted. My advice: Go for Vue.

Excellent views and what I'm after. I've checked out pricing on the Infinite program and will hold out (save up) with what $ I currently have. During that time, I'll dig around the tuts some more getting use to the jargon and tips so I'll be ready to plundge! Special thanks Elminster for the comments and your time. Cheers

Umm.... I'm only a hobbyist (and have been using Bryce for a quite awhile), but I recently got Vue 5 I (mainly for the ecosystem). Initial perception: "Oh, this is so much easier!" Later perception "errrrmm .. how do I do (whatever it was I was used to doing in Bryce)" It's a different monster. It can do a lot more than Bryce can, but occasionally there are bits that Bryce can do which Vue can't. It takes a different approach to creating stuff than Bryce does. Learning curve takes a while.. If you've got the cash, I'd say go for it (especially V5I), but DON'T get rid of Bryce - for some scenes, Bryce is quicker and easier. Oh, and just to add, although the Vue render is (usually) quicker than Bryce's it ain't always so.. But, all in all, I'm beginning to to prefer V5I to bryce. Now, where are all those NVIATWAS Poser pz3 files that I though I'd saved?...

What they said. :P Vue Infinite has Mover 5 integrated, and with the current updates imports both P5 and P6 (there was a change in the way P6 handles .dyn files, hence the mention). And since Mover is integrated, you get the Hypervue network rendering manager and a 5 node licsence as well. The finickyness regarding Poser textures has to do with the fact that Poser has a recursive search function; if it doesn't find the exact file, it looks for the closest thing. This has led to a multi-year pattern of syntax errors in pathnames of content, and apps like Vue depend on -exact- pathnames. A little app called Correct Reference by Hogwarden will comb your Poser runtime, find all the syntax errors and unassociated files, present you with the list, and give you the option of letting it fix things (not recommended), or correcting the problems yourself. There will be some things to unlearn true enough, but you will be getting an application with relatively serious power to play with (if you haven't already, go to the e-on site and download the demo reels for Vue 5 and Infinite. Or hop over to belino.net and get them; this is Phoul's homesite, and he is the creator of the reels. Take a look at some of the other stuff he's doing while you're there....). Overall, I find Vue more to my liking than Bryce. And the way things are looking, there is going to be a DAZ Studio-Bryce/Poser-Vue split in workflows before much longer...

Attached Link: http://www.newtek.com/buynow/index.php

That's true, but I always found LightWave really difficult. Vue , and Bryce, for that matter, are really easy to use - straightforward and visual. LW has grids and numbers. I don't like numbers.

I started with Bryce and then shifted to Vue 5 Esprit about a year ago. I would definitely take Vue over Bryce. The renders are more realistic, and the renders are a lot faster. Editing is easier too. I hated Bryce's Material Editor and Tree Editor. Vue's material editor takes a while to learn, but once you get the hang of it, you have so much control over every facet of information. I cannot vouch for the Tree editor in Vue because I don't have it, but it looks easy to use and much simpler than Bryce's tree editor. Bryce may be a little easier to learn, but it cannot compare to Vue for rendering.

I'd say go for Vue, even Esprit ( you can upgarde later to Infinite if you have the cash), simply because it renders faster ( but don't expect high quality images to render in minutes though!), and the advanced lighting models (global ambiance, global illumination, and radiosity for interior scenes) will make your scenes so much more realistic. The function editor, even in Esprit will let you customize a lot your materials, even if it's not easy to master at the beginning. I find boolean operations in Vue simpler than in Bryce ( with the odd crash every once in a while, though.) With 5 Esprit, no plant editing, you'll need an extra module called Botanica for that, but you'll be able to change some textures anyway. Vue standard terrains are not as good as Bryce's, but you have procedural terrains, and once you understand how it works, the results can be fantastic. Box version comes with a manual and tutorials. E-on's website hosts flash tutorials to get you started real quick. Hope this helped.

I have Vue 4 and Bryce (and have just bought Vue 5 in the DAZ one day sale :) ) I would not move away completely from Bryce. I love the terrain editor and the material editor - but I think the Vue trees are a lot better. I think they both have their niche and am glad that I have both of them.

Forgive me, but to ask if Vue is better than Bryce in a Vue forum, you're liable to get a biased answer ;) Although both programs have the similar end goals, they both approach them differently. Of course it really depends on what you're doing. If you are looking to render Poser ANIMATIONS with characters interacting with the environment, Vue is your solution. Currently there is no way to render animations in Bryce, save import .objs and textures for each individual frame. Who wants that hassle? I don't believe that Vue is more difficult than Bryce - just different. The interface is more "production intuitive" than Bryce. Your background in Photoshop should ease the transistion, working with layers and what not. Plus by the end of the year, Vue will "play well" with the Big 4 packages. As mentioned earlier, the Ecosystem (in V5 Infinite, which is well worth the money BTW) simply cannot be duplicated in Bryce unless you have a Cray or something. Plus the new lighting methods (GI, GR) really put it in a league with more "high end" apps. Also you'll want to consider what you want it to do, keeping in mind that Vue d'Esprit with all the modules is more expensive than Infinte yet lacks the Ecosystem. Just something to think about. Finally, I haven't compared the render times of Vue and Bryce. Vue may be faster than Bryce but does render slower than, say Mental Ray, especially if you want a smooth / not noisy render. Hey, we don't get into CG because it's easy ;)

Just get the demo version of both and try before you buy.
In the end one application will annoy you less than the other.

krimpr said: "I don't know if this is bumping your budget a little higher than you'd like, but for the next few weeks you can get Lightwave AND Vue Infinite for $795. Pretty much would have all 3D needs covered and is the deal of the century IMO." That is true, but if going for that bundle, I would budget in for FPrime as well...Lightwave without FPrime is a path to major frustration IMHO. This may change with version 9, but you can only base judgements on what is available now. Cheers

Thank you for each ones valued input. Yes it is kind of one sided asking to compare Bryce and Vue in a Vue forum but with good reason. Asking the question gives me details about Vue (what Im really interested in) while I understand the pros and cons with Bryce already. Before I make a huge financial commitment to anything, I have to understand downfalls or praises. My attempt is never to stir the bee hive as any software is a winner when the user dominates it for all its worth. In short, Bryce does cool things and Ill continue to use should I purchase Vue. I use Paint Shop Pro and Photo Shop different things learned, features, power and such. I enjoy it all and pick depending on what the need is. I did not realize the difference between Espirit and Infinite so the concept of buying more add ons (Esp) was VERY helpful $ wise as well as the extra tools Infinite offers. One asked if animation was my goal and @ this point no, but whos to say I wont ever try later. Im after more in-depth control over background creations. Yes Ill get the demo, play around with it, familiarize and purchase (Inf. Or Esp. ver.) once my funds are complete. The links to tuts and such were excellent sources as well. I look forward to further analysis, future purchase and joining this forum when its all said and done. Seriously, I am so humbled @ the assistance from all. All responses are very professional, attentive and superb. Everyone lean toward your monitors and feel the pat on the back Im distributing (feel the warmth). Graciously, T

Hey, no problem, T'. S'what we're here for.

Think I'll throw in my two cents worth. I started with Bryce in 2000 and used it continuously. Got Vue 4 and found it much better than Bryce for landscapes, but I still stuck with Bryce for most of my work. Then I won Vue 5, fell in love with it and side-graded to 5i, because of the eco systems. As long as I'm doing outdoor scenes, I pretty much stick with Vue but nothing beats Bryce for abstracts and I usually prefer it for indoor scenes as well. So even though I use Vue5i for almost everything, Bryce is still a good tool for me. And after all that's what all the software is, a tool to create what I want and use the tool that fits. :)

What a well written, well thought out thread! :) I thought I would help but I think everything has been said... I do have one little point, I have had Bryce since it came to PC, and been in love with it, comfortable in it, since...until Vue 3, and then 4 came out WITH THE PLANTS... so I "crossed over" and while I kept clicking when I wanted to do things one way (the bryce way) and had to retrain my brain (try bouncing back and forth with use, that's still "fun"! LOL!)... but I do use Vue MORE than Bryce... On the other side of the coin, I have a dear friend who also used Bryce since the beginning, and she got vue, but could not deal with the difference in use and went back to Bryce. (and she is very computer and software savy!)... she is even willing to still use Bryce without the magic pz3 importer plug in by DAZ - where you "strain the pz3" through DAZ Studio and into a Bryce format - and all the textures and trans maps come in PERFECTLY... I do use the Bryce plug in and DAZ Studio if I want to bring things into my Bryce... but bringing in the pz3 scene file contents to Vue IS SO EASY! I use Poser 5 and now 6 to do so, and all works fine! (also used Poser since it came to PC...am I dating myself? ;) Lyne

How are e-on with upgrades? Do they pretty much make you upgrade every version or do they forget about you? The nicer thing about the cheaper versions is that demos only help so much to see what a program is like or will do. You really need to feel comfortable with a program to spend $500 or more on it.

Another satisfied response regarding ease of PZ3's importing into Vue. Yes - I'm curious too on how e-on does w/upgrades. Anyone? As for the demos, I have Vue now to try. As stated, before I sink my bankroll, I need to be please with the "ease" of use or at least have great tuts (links provided in other responses - thanks again). Yep - jumping between Bryce and Vue is like learning a new language. They sound the same, mutter the same things in a way but you learn new ways or words in the process. Ah - just makes you a better person when someone like me asks the in's and out's in comparison. Thanks again and keep the knowledge roll'n. I'm learning A LOT and getting comfortable about a future purchase. Again, I'm humbled at the help I'm receiving. Wish everyone in the world would be as giving instead of expecting to receive. Bless all.

I am afraid I can not help you with your questions as I do not own Vue 5 yet. I have always been very happy with Vue 3 and 4 though. What I did want to add though is that Vue esprit 5 is on sale right now for 149 euro. So in case you find it hard to take the big step of buying Vue 5 infinite you can go for Vue 5 esprit instead. If I am counting correctly you could upgrade to infinite at a later date without paying more then if you would have baught infinite strait away. I hope this isn't to confusing and that I am calculating correctly. :D Oh, and in case you wonder why I don't have Vue 5 then I must add it is simply the fact that I am not really in a position to be spending money on a hobby at the moment. With a heavy blush on my cheeks I have to admit I am tempted to upgrade to Vue 5 esprit now with teh sale ... and perhaps I also need to admit I have been buying new clothes and such for poser occasionaly although I really try not to spend much ... a girl has the right to have a hobby doesn't she? ;) Wendy

Thanks for the calculations Rynn. I'll check it out as well on upgrade costs should I purchase Espirit and later wish to jump to Infinite. As for your own software version and spending capabilities, never feel bad about that. The latest and greatest software prices always has sales or discounts (especially when the next generation comes out). If I cashed in on every upgrade (I have Poser 5 - not getting 6 @ this point, Bryce, Adobe Photoshop, Dreamweaver etc.), I'd be eating noodles with no pasta for life (laughs). I know exactly where you're coming from so stay proud of what you've purchased as others have without. Thanks again for your input! T'

Well, adobe pricing is crazy, but upgrades are much better, however, they do give you credit for previous versions. It seems like eon like some others doesn't give you credit for earlier versions too well. Even infinite at that price seems lacking in a few areas, so upgrades are definitely important.

not sure what you guys are expecting as far as upgrades goes but in my humble opinion e.on do give you a big enough discount when upgrading and they dont forget about their old customers :) anyway, thats just my humble opinion

I was interested in whether you can upgrade to infinite say from vue3 if you had it. It only shows very recent version upgrades. Which means if you didn't buy every new version you would be out of the loop. Is the Infinite demo the same as the espirit demo? Sounded the same. I am wondering if you can check out the other features like the ecosystem.

Message edited on: 10/14/2005 05:48

The infinite demo is the full program, except for restrictions on the size and length of images/animations you render. Oh, and they only give you a small selection of materials, but besides that, it has all the features.

Thanks. Anybody know about the upgrade path? Didn't see it in the faq.