Hi all, When EJ was first released in the marketplace, everyone went agog with her - deservedly so, she transformed an ugly hag (the original Judy) into a beautiful and versatile character ..... so little wonder. For a while there, a lot of R'osity merchants were making add-ons for her as well. She must have fallen down an abyss because she hasn't so much as rated a mention for months. Why do you suppose this is ? (I think she's very hurt by all of this .....) regards, Andrew

Eternal Judy is an excellent character with real potential.

But she has several strikes going against her. First and foremost: she isn't V3. And characters that aren't V3 usually don't have staying power. They might enjoy a brief window of fairly brisk sales: but after the intitial burst of excitement, then things rapidly slow down. Some people don't like hearing that -- but reality is what it is. Not what some wish that it was. Secondly, the base Judy figure herself was never popular. Right from the start, she was looked over -- and then overlooked. I'd say that P4 Posette is still more commonly used than Judy ever was.

And EJ has another minor strike against her: Judy's native P5 has been supplanted by P6. Judy will fade with time. It's taking longer for Posette to go away: although she's inevitably headed into the same sunset that Judy is ((Although many of Posette's tight fans won't admit to it. They'll probably succeed in keeping Posette on life support for another few years.)). But Judy? She never had "it" to begin with.

Don't get me wrong -- I think that EJ is cute, and that she is a good figure. It's just that she doesn't fit into long-term Poser market trends. No doubt, she'll have her hardcore fans and supporters that'll stick up for her -- just like every other also-ran Poser figure does. And they'll keep using her for the next 10 years or so......

But if a figure isn't V3, then it won't ever go beyond a niche appeal. Not until such time as the dynamics of the Poser market undergo a significant internal shift.

A certain vocal minority will loudly support ANY figure that isn't V3. In the meantime, the (mostly silent) vast majority will continue to vote V3 with their $$$$$$$$$$'s.

That's why the market looks like it does.

(How many GIRL renders have you seen lately?)

BTW -- items/characters made for the latest native Poser female figure -- Jessi -- don't sell anything like items/characters made for V3 will sell on the average. As I believe that certain merchants are discovering.

I have to agree with Xenophonz and would be bold enough to say that V3 conservatively encompasses anywhere between a 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire poser market (though its probably more). There have been a lot of great figure that are struggling for niche support: EJ, Elle, The GIRL, Solandra, Misaki, Furrette, Dina, Natalia, Judy, Don etc. The disportionate support for V3 has certainly created a backlash for some poser users. I, for one, think she's an adequate figure but I lack inspiration to work with her after so much overexposure and so little support for the figures I really love. That's not meant to be a swat to the people who do like using her though. Basically, the cold hard facts is that if you find yourself liking a niche figure you need to either work with less or learn to create your own content...

Posette'll be all around in the dark - Posette'll be everywhere. Wherever you can look - wherever there's a fight, so hungry people can eat, Posette'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, Posette'll be there. Posette'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad. Posette'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry and they know supper's ready, and when the people are eatin' the stuff they raise and livin' in the houses they build - Posette'll be there, too.

Basically, the cold hard facts is that if you find yourself liking a niche figure you need to either work with less or learn to create your own content...

As you know, Wardrobe Wizard can really help out with this problem. Assuming, of course, that someone's figure of choice is supported by WW.

Eventually, some sharp marketing genius out there will figure out the tightly-held trade secret -- that the oft-scorned-in-the-forums FEMALE "supermodel" type figure SELLS. And that she sells far better than anything else does. And that this will always be the case.

When said marketing genius ciphers out this deep mystery -- and doesn't try to fight human nature by insisting that all of us are SUPPOSED to like something other than what most of us actually do like (and want to buy).......then said marketing genius might actually be able to create a figure which will give the infamous Victoria line a run for it's money.

However: no one is going to successfully challenge Victoria with anything other than a figure that out-Victoria's Victoria. No male figure (no matter how well done he is) is going to sell on anything like the same level that a good female figure will sell.

The reasons for all of this are terribly mysterious, I know........hard to understand.........tough to follow.......

.......but I'd bet that we could eventually figure it out.

Well Said Xeno And the roadside to riches is littered with the parched bones of merchants products who bought into this self righteous noise in the forums demanding they give us some "normal/average looking" women and "we will buy" only to release such normal character packs even for V3 and have them fail miserably ;-/.

Interesting comments .... but it all comes back to "why V3??" .... e.g. why NOT S3 for example .... or V2 ?

lmckenzie - pretty damn funny! I too think Xeno is right. But... might Miki be the first non-unimesh fem character to actually flourish? She won't threaten V3's dominance, but perhaps she will be more successful, long-term, than the others mentioned? Is she getting relatively more support from top merchants at this point in her life than others did? (that's an actual question, not a polemic) I think the work that fabriced, richardson, and others are doing with her is really striking, and is at least as good as anything done with V3. I certainly plan on buying her as soon as I can scrape up the $80 or so for a real investment - figure, textures, hair fits, morphs, clothes. Well, maybe she can do without the clothes for now :)

.... but it all comes back to "why V3??" .... e.g. why NOT S3 for example .... or V2 ?

At least in part, I'd say that it's V3's intertia. It's sort of like the old adage that it takes money to attract money.......

Also: DAZ was the first one into the game with Victoria. That gives DAZ a powerful advantage -- they hold the pole postion in this race. Everyone else -- no matter how good their models are -- is playing catch-up. That's not easy to do. Especially for independent modelers without corporate money backing them up.

V2 isn't as easily "adjustable" as V3.

As for S3 -- I personally like S3. I use her on occasion. But the basic S3 figure isn't built in a way that instantly draws the eyes of everything male in sight. And the faster that the eyes of everything male in sight can be drawn......then the better that the product in question will sell.

Some people absolutely HATE to hear such bald truth stated so flatly -- it's politically incorrect to point such things out -- but that's the way that it is...........and merchants can either choose to cater to human nature (and make money), or else they can attempt to resist human nature (and suffer lower sales figures as a result).

shrug Admittedly -- sometimes, a lower-seller is a labor of love for some modeler/merchant. In such cases, the money isn't necessarily the central issue.

But if making money is the goal -- then you have to give people what they want. NOT what you want for them to want.

@ wolf --

You are 100% correct.

Once again: don't get me wrong. I buy "ordinary" characters all of the time. And I strongly support merchants like KymJ with her excellent line of "ordinary" people (Highly recommended). Such characters fill a badly under-represented gap of "people types".

But I also know that svelte V3's hold the advantage in my overall runtime. Perhaps by a ratio of 10-to-1.

I feel safe in asserting that this state of affairs is typical for many (if not most) Poser users.

I think S3 lost out because of her big hands - it's perhaps odd to think one feature like that could do it but i'm sure that's what it is love esther

@ linkdink -- IMO, Miki has a much better shot at the brass ring than most other comers have had. Miki won't supplant V3 -- but she'll probably hold her own in a good-sized niche. Miki has one great, big advantage: she's got corporate money backing her up. That's a huge plus.

"As you know, Wardrobe Wizard can really help out with this problem. Assuming, of course, that someone's figure of choice is supported by WW." WW is an excellent tool, however sometimes the clothes don't always convert well. My problem is more with getting skin textures for the figures I use. That's where real skin shader and the materials room are really needed to give a single texture multiple different looks. "Miki has a much better shot at the brass ring than most other comers have had. Miki won't supplant V3 -- but she'll probably hold her own in a good-sized niche. Miki has one great, big advantage: she's got corporate money backing her up. That's a huge plus." This is the same company that released Jessi and Judy, neither of which have even closely rivaled V3's success. Miki has has some moderate success because of her unique status as an authentic looking ethnic model. EF is releasing another model soon. Hopefully it does well...

Miki's also a honest to goodness (not morphed to look like) ethnic figure. Made in San Antonio by people who know what picante sauce is supposed to taste like...oops wrong commercial. She provides a nice alternative to the assortment of alabaster idols from Daz and CL. One can't underestimate the 'Luv You Longtime' appeal.

I still use EJ, In fact I just did a pic with her 2 days ago... And I'm rendering one with V2 right now... Then again I like to use a wide variety of models... They all have different strengths and weaknesses. I may break out good old Posette Ultramorph woman 3 next :)

Do it !! .... the Ultramorph woman is great :)

This is the same company that released Jessi and Judy, neither of which have even closely rivaled V3's success. Miki has has some moderate success because of her unique status as an authentic looking ethnic model. EF is releasing another model soon. Hopefully it does well...

True. But unlike Judy or Jessi, Miki has at least a bit of the enigmatic "it" factor.

Miki is cute. Miki looks more realistic than her sisters. Miki sparks interest right out of the box.

Personally, I like classic "alabaster" beauties.......and I like Miki. They both catch the eye in their own way.

I'd say that Miki has a good chance to be a success. And I'm curious to see what this new "revolutionary" figure from EF is going to be.

The corporate money is a plus -- but it's not a guarantee of popularity. It's just a big help in the right direction.

Posette'll be there, too< (sniffles) Gosh, I'm crying (MWHAHAHA)

The thing that REALLY puzzles me is why none of the male characters has ever REALLY taken off the way V3 did. NOT even the Daz males. It can't be because the Poser users are all male. I KNOW we're a lot of female users too. And I assume that most of us are heterosexual females to boot. So WHY on God's Green Earth do we not render more MEN?! Er.. ok some of us do, of course.. But even I have fallen victin to the V3 craze. I have most of the products Daz has made for her, as well as quite a few from here. Allthough I hardly ever use her LOL (call it collectormania) Other characters, like GIRL and Koshini took off and were very popular - for a time. But it all comes down to which characters has most accessories. Just like Barbie. When have you last seen anything for Skipper? ;o) I'm curious as to how Renda2 will take off. From what I've seen, she vaguely resembles V3. At first I thought that was a big mistake, but perhaps that can be exactely what is needed to make her a success... I wish she'll flourish. We definately need as much diversity as we can possibly get! That's the only way of getting rid of the hordes of NVIATWAVS (No not a Velvet Sword, Vacant Stare...)

There's another way to get rid of the vacant stare and still keep your V3. I've got Schlabber's V3 expressions. Love esther

You can still keep your temples and swords too!

I'm starting to feel like a broken record. I don't have WW, I can't afford to buy WW, that leaves me out for any figure that sports custom morphs. GND2 is one of them. I love the way the character looks, really love it. EJ is another, tho she doesn't tempt me that much. But she's no good to me if I can't get any clothes on her. Needing to put them in Wardrobe Wizard is no good to me, because... I don't have it. And a nearly $70 pricetag means I won't have it, either. Much as I'd like to have it, I simply cannot afford to shell out $70 for something I might never really use. For all those who got it, gee good for you. Most of us don't have it.

"The thing that REALLY puzzles me is why none of the male characters has ever REALLY taken off the way V3 did." I have to say I'm incredibly curious about this too. Especially when the things that inspire me like comic books and cop and sci fi shows are mainly run with male characters. When I do an action or cop scene, almost always it's with a male figure. It's kind of odd that the poser community runs in the opposite direction of Hollywood yet many of the same influences appear in the art just substituting a male with a female figure. Mainly I think the issue lies on who is producing the content. If items for a particular figure (V3) sell consistently, are they going to risk helping to establish a male figure? Granted there are some who will just to market themselves as versatile, but the question remains whether or not they are just sticking to unimesh uv's or whether they'll be willing to texture Apollo and future males as well.

The thing that REALLY puzzles me is why none of the male characters has ever REALLY taken off the way V3 did. NOT even the Daz males. It can't be because the Poser users are all male. I KNOW we're a lot of female users too. And I assume that most of us are heterosexual females to boot. So WHY on God's Green Earth do we not render more MEN?!

I think women are more likely to render both males and females than men. There are guys who aren't in the least interested in M3, and even react like you're accusing them of being gay if you suggest they download him. Okay, most are not that extreme, but still...I think women are likely to buy stuff for both Mike and Vicky, while men are more likely to stick with just Vicky.

I suspect it's also a reflection of our culture. It's certainly not hard-wired into our brains, because in times past, men spent as much time and money on clothing and hair and shoes as women. (Not to mention padding their calves and codpieces. ;-) But here and now, women tend to have a lot more clothes, makeup, etc., than men. A real man is not supposed to be interested in clothes.

As for EJ...the "Poser users are male and vote with their hormones" argument really doesn't apply, because if anything, she looks even more like a supermodel than V3. And "corporate support" doesn't apply, either, because Jessi and Judy had corporate support, to little avail.

Nope, I think it's "Windows syndrome." We know all the reasons to use a Mac or Linux - less viruses, lower cost (in the case of Linux, anyway), etc. But when push comes to shove, most people stick with Windows, because they want to be compatible with the rest of the world. It's the same with Vicky and Mike. They are DAZ's flagship figures, and people know they will be supported. That's why SP and David will never surpass V3 and M3, no matter how good they are. (Though I bet it would have been different if they called them V4 and M4.)

To make a dent in the V3 monopoly, you'd have to do what Firefox is doing with Internet Explorer. One, the competing product must be free. DAZ is giving away V3 and M3, so you can't expect to charge for a competing figure. Two, the competing product must offer something that V3 and M3 do not. (This is where the Zygote open source figures fall short, IMO. So far, they don't offer anything that V3 doesn't.)

If the rumors are true about Poser 7 - that it will be out next summer, and will support weight-based rigging - things could get interesting. It would put e-Frontier in the position of being able to make figures that really offer something V3 can't.

"I love the way the character looks, really love it. EJ is another, tho she doesn't tempt me that much. But she's no good to me if I can't get any clothes on her. you've just named two figures you would like to cloth and use if you could "$70 pricetag means I won't have it, either. Much as I'd like to have it, I simply cannot afford to shell out $70 for something I might never really use." it seems to me you do have a need for a plugin such as WW since there are figures you want but cant cloth yourself but alas in some respects its just ike the Exotic sports car that gets 6 miles to a gallon of fuel. if you cant afford the fuel and maintainence you probably should not buy the car. the same applies to these "custom poser" figures if you cant afford the Add ons /utilies to make them usable to you ,than stick with the "generic" free version and accept that your renders will have a figure that looks alot like many other peoples renders using the free "generic" version.

The thing that REALLY puzzles me is why none of the male characters has ever REALLY taken off the way V3 did. NOT even the Daz males. It can't be because the Poser users are all male. I KNOW we're a lot of female users too. And I assume that most of us are heterosexual females to boot. So WHY on God's Green Earth do we not render more MEN?!

It's for the same reason that most women's magazines feature cover photographs of beautiful young.....women. Not men (19 times out of 20). Sure, you can point to a few exceptions to that general rule -- but for the vast majority of women's magazines.....it's attractive young women on the cover.

Likewise, men's magazines also feature attractive young women on the cover. Even a men's magazine that has a central theme of subjects like cars or motorcycles still tends to grace the cover with a woman.

Why? Because the publishing industry knows what people will buy. And so they give it to them. Women aren't as sight-oriented as men are. They simply aren't. But with men: what they see can be very powerful. Sure, it happens to women, too.....but not in the same way.

A guy can be terribly turned on by a picture on a page. Most women cannot. Once again, there are exceptions to the rule. But 99 times out of 100........

Here's another deep, dark secret: women are different from men. From birth. Regardless of 60's-style feminist dogma to the contrary.

It's not the mystery that some want to make it out to be. The underlying reasons are actually quite simple and straightforward.

The message to the woman: "Want to attract men? Want to be the Belle of the Ball? Want to look like this babe? Then buy this magazine!"

The message to the man: "Want to have this babe? Then buy this magazine!"

I suspect it's also a reflection of our culture. It's certainly not hard-wired into our brains, because in times past, men spent as much time and money on clothing and hair and shoes as women. (Not to mention padding their calves and codpieces. ;-)

You are reffering to high-born dandies and fops. Not the average representative man of those eras. Being called a "fop" was not a compliment.

Nowadays, some men fill their closets with $1500 suits, or other types of fancy clothes. shrug When you are talking averages, men's clothing stores don't do anywhere near the business that women's clothing stores do. The figures aren't even close. What's more: it was ever thus.

As for EJ...the "Poser users are male and vote with their hormones" argument really doesn't apply, because if anything, she looks even more like a supermodel than V3. And "corporate support" doesn't apply, either, because Jessi and Judy had corporate support, to little avail.

EJ is cute.....but she's not as realistic as V3. And that makes a difference. I know women that look like V3 in her various incarnations. By contrast, EJ carries a hint of being a 'toon figure. That appeals to some. But not to many others.

As for Jessi and Judy and corporate money.....see my post #17 above.

No amount of corporate money will make up for a model that doesn't fit into the strictures of what we could call the "V3 template".

As I've already stated: the Victoria line also has the huge advantage of being the first such models to appear on the scene. As a result of being first, Victoria has built up a gigantic following -- in what is actually a small market. For this reason, any competing figure will have a hard row to hoe playing catch-up. And that makes it tough to do.

But without FIRST fitting into the (loudly despised by some) "V3 template" -- any new figure has virtually no chance at all. Except as a niche figure. Being a niche figure isn't necessarily a bad thing. We have a need for niche figures in order to complete many Poser scenes -- just like the movies require character actors to move a story's plot along.

But even the best niche figures will never be the big star in terms of overall sales. Victoria (and possible future clones like her) will be.

Rationalize it/debate it/argue with it/rage against the unfairness of it/attempt to explain it away........all that anyone likes. Human nature will tell in the end. The relative sales averages aren't ever going to budge much from what they are right now. No matter how much anyone wishes that they would.

I have to say I'm incredibly curious about this too. Especially when the things that inspire me like comic books and cop and sci fi shows are mainly run with male characters. When I do an action or cop scene, almost always it's with a male figure. It's kind of odd that the poser community runs in the opposite direction of Hollywood yet many of the same influences appear in the art just substituting a male with a female figure.

If I am building an action-adventure type scene, then I'll normally use a male figure. But even then -- I tend to dress Michael in much the same way that I would dress myself. Which is always without fashion overkill. Neat is good. But only to a point.

I couldn't care less what Tom Cruise (nutcase) is wearing on the screen. But Keira Knightley.....that's a different matter altogether.

Hehe XENO.. you've got a point.. I don't pay much attention to what even Alan Rickman wears on screen (in any case, it's too much...) but I DO tend to notice the female's dresses and stuff. Not much though. I've never really been interested in clothes other than something you have to wear to not catch a cold/get arrested, but of course I do have my preferences in clothes, too. (they're black, for one...) I think you're right about EJ being slightly toonish. It's the same problem Jessi has, she's neither fish nor fowl. Not a REAL toon and not REALLY real. Prettier than Judy (but that doesn't mean much) but still in no way a competitor to Victoria. That said, I really don't like V3 out of the box. And M3? He looks like V3's sister... BUT the MAJOR advantage with those characters is that they're so easy to morph into something else. Something appealing, whatever might appeal to you. And THAT is V3's force: She can be an asian character one day, an african the next day, and an old german Mutti the third... All depending on how you morph her. The same is true, to a point, with M3. But he was never equipped with as many morphs as V3. Even THEN Daz made him the ugly step child :o( At least they made David. Don't get me wrong: I LOVE Apollo, he's truly innovative in SO many ways... and M3 is a great charater with - after a few years - a decent wardrobe, but.. David is my all time #1 character Daz has EVER made. He bends and morphs FAR superior to V3 and M3. I guess SP3 comes close, but she has ever really appealed to me (that doesn't keep me from buying her and everything made for her.. as I said.. collectormania...) so I can't really judge her. And of course men and women are different. The slightly worn-iout "men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" isn't all rubbish. Some are just stuck staring at Uranus...

Hehe XENO.. you've got a point.. I don't pay much attention to what even Alan Rickman wears on screen (in any case, it's too much...) but I DO tend to notice the female's dresses and stuff. Not much though. I've never really been interested in clothes other than something you have to wear to not catch a cold/get arrested, but of course I do have my preferences in clothes, too. (they're black, for one...) I think you're right about EJ being slightly toonish. It's the same problem Jessi has, she's neither fish nor fowl. Not a REAL toon and not REALLY real. Prettier than Judy (but that doesn't mean much) but still in no way a competitor to Victoria. That said, I really don't like V3 out of the box. And M3? He looks like V3's sister... BUT the MAJOR advantage with those characters is that they're so easy to morph into something else. Something appealing, whatever might appeal to you. And THAT is V3's force: She can be an asian character one day, an african the next day, and an old german Mutti the third... All depending on how you morph her. The same is true, to a point, with M3. But he was never equipped with as many morphs as V3. Even THEN Daz made him the ugly step child :o( At least they made David. Don't get me wrong: I LOVE Apollo, he's truly innovative in SO many ways... and M3 is a great charater with - after a few years - a decent wardrobe, but.. David is my all time #1 character Daz has EVER made. He bends and morphs FAR superior to V3 and M3. I guess SP3 comes close, but she has ever really appealed to me (that doesn't keep me from buying her and everything made for her.. as I said.. collectormania...) so I can't really judge her. And of course men and women are different. The slightly worn-iout "men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" isn't all rubbish. Some are just stuck staring at Uranus...

The "you can look like this woman" might apply to fashion magazines, but to Poser? I don't anyone thinks they can look like Vicky just by rendering her. ;-)

Consider romance novel covers. The male publishers put women falling out of their low-cut dresses on the covers for years. Until they finally realized that women, their supposed customers, actually preferred to see men. Then Fabio became a superstar. :-P

Though actually, if you ask them, most romance readers will say their prefer a generic cover - a rose, say. Because they're embarrassed to be seen with bookcover that shows half-nekkid Fabio. I gotta wonder if they reach for the bookcover with the still life of a flower when it's next to half-naked Fabio on the racks, though.

I think most women do like to look at men, but they aren't as likely to be aware of it, or to let it influence their decisions. (There has been some interesting research done.) Women have a lot more to lose than men, and really can't afford to get carried away.

Still, I suspect there is a larger market for male figures and clothing than we see here. As large as for V3, no. But I confess, when I first found Poser, I bought Mike 2 but did not buy Vicky. I wasn't interested in the females. And the artists who showed me Poser were also not interested in females. (Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if they were drooling over Ernyoka's Snape pics. ;-)

But they rarely if every come to Rosity, or post here. Because there's not much here for them. I think that's too bad, because it's hard to achieve much if you're not part of a larger community. There are male-oriented Poser sites, but they all seem to be oriented to gay men. Nothing wrong with that, but what appeals to gay men isn't necessarily what appeals to women.

"Personally, I like classic "alabaster" beauties......." As do I but I want a little whole wheat, the occasional falafel, some spicy dumplings and a few tortillas with all that white bread. The male figures get rendered plenty, just go to any of the gay Poser sites. Mike is hanging out all over the place and his lack of a wardrobe doesn't seem to be a handicap. I haven't looked at the forums but they probably aren't filled with laments about over-sized pecs getting all the hits either. 'Dude, no way is that scrotum natural!' Females are simply more versatile. What are you gonna do with a guy except stick a gun in his hand or a GUN in his hand--sex or violence and mama don't allow the latter in this house. How often are you going to see a pensive Mike, a teary Mike, a laughing Mike tripping through the flowers, Mike holding Mike's hand... Vicki can do all those things and swing a mean sword too. My guess is that most times, people just don't even consider using men outside a pretty narrow range of situations. So to borrow the title of a recent book, "Are Men Necessary?" In a world where Vicki rules and scientists are talking about mice producing human sperm (Mr. Gere, white courtesy phone), who knows?

lmkenzie.. yeah,, but.. Mike is useable for so much more than just gay pics. Not that I mind gay pics, I've grown a findness for them, if only to get rid of all the Vickies..GG but. the point is ytou can do EXACTELY the same with a male character than with a female... Men are better with swords in temples anu day... And why not just make pinups? Portraits? do the same pics as you would do with Vickie, just with Mike. might be a challenge to think outside the box ;o)

Of course, you CAN do the same, my point is that people just don't seem to visualize Mike in those roles. Even when it's time for a little of the old ultraviolence, when you'd expect the old boy to shine, Vicki shoulders her way in. The other stuff isn't even on the radar for the most part. Sure, you can have a limpid eyed Bishonen (is that what they call those Asian lady boy types) male but jeeze, at that point, just go all the way and give him boobs and whack off the incongrous wee wee (oops poor choice of words, amputate). I feel your pain (actually not), but Mikey flourishes only in the land of sweat, bulging muscles and even more bulging jockstraps. Even Sandy Claws is being replaced by Vickis in red fur, trimmed mini-skirts and crotchless reindeer skin panties. Who's that swapping spit under the mistletoe, why it's Vicki and Vicki! As long as they let me watch then hey, Grrlz Rule and Boyz Drool!

Hmmm... This thread has really got me thinking... I will really try to use poor old Mike more... Actually I have used James quite a bit.

Wolf - I understand your reasoning. But you've also touched on mine. If the only way I get clothes onto a custom figure is to purchase a utility - then I do without those figures. The "Generic" looking figures only look generic if you don't do the dial-dance.

She's not a DAZ character, that's her main problem. Most people seem to have the attitude that if it isn't DAZ, it can't be good.... very unfortunate. I'm glad she isn't a DAZ figure though.

Message edited on: 12/12/2005 04:05

I still perfer Posette myself. She's lo-rez and easy to pose and render -I don't need a super computer to work with her. Victoria has always looked so 'lumpy' to me, and her dials are so comples and esoteric, I could never really do anything with her. Other than Posette, I've found Aiko3 to be a nice alternative. She's cute, and she takes Victoria's skin textures.