The entire site has been running horribly this week (even more than usual if you can believe it), and with the advent of the wonderful and insightful new decision made to ban any nude promo images in the MP of the Girl and Aiko, I would say all those image swaps aren't helping much at all.
For every related product in the MP, there will probably be one or two promo images changed out. That should add to the bottleneck quite nicely, great move!

Who is going to purchase something they can't see anyway?? I find this completely counter productive to the site's performance (which is already hampered and dragging like a wounded slug), and it certainly serves no marketing benefit that I can possibly think of.

There is certainly a high degree of sickness involved if you feel that looking at a 3D character with a skin texture is lewd and indecent. Do monkeys wear pants and is that acceptable? When we die, do we leave the planet wearing at least underwear? And were we born into this world with overalls on? I think this entire issue is pure psychosis and shames the art world in every imaginable degree, not to mention completely revoking any or all artistic license.

I'm also terribly disappointed and outraged in the way DarkWing-Zero and Darkscorn and Soulsilver were treated here in the MP, and the site just might speed up quite a bit when all the high-end merchants end up at DAZ! How many major merchants have left this site this year already? I'd say someone is blowing the horn behind the scenes, and it resembles something from an early Yoko Ono album the way things are going around here lately. Laffs

Darkscorn and Soulsilver's store had the most insanely detailed items I have seen anywhere, and their future looked quite promising here. Not to mention, Darkscorn's gallery is now deleted and it's not because she was trying to save server space, either. I'll look forward to purchasing their items at DAZ like the rest who have fled here recently. Cha-Ching!

I hate to sound like an ingrate or pessimist, but I see the near future of this site falling into a downward spiral if some major changes aren't implemented. And that doesn't include ridiculous new rulesets like removing promo images for products of details customers need to view before purchasing. I wouldn't be surprised if the merchants who deal in this 'troubling and incredibly shameful' category were to pull out and form a line like angry ants to other sites. Come on, we [barely] stomached the clothed faerie/cherub thing awhile back (another artistic and social pitfall of this place), but this is really going too far in my opinion.

Given this mentality, I will follow my favorite merchants creating the quality goods I desire wherever they go, and I won't be buying any Girl or Aiko products here ever...I promise. And for those merchants who choose to stay and do battle, I only hope you are wearing a life jacket to tread above water when the ship sinks!

Please, we have begged, we have pleaded. Some rationality and common sense would be more than appreciated at this time. Let's try to fix things that are broken for awhile, eh?

Incredibly Irritated

-Shardz-

Message edited on: 12/29/2005 23:36

Quote - Yoko Ono album

Runs from the room screaming and holding up a cross

uh Daz doesn't allow any nude shots in promo or in galleries. what's the complaint again?

The Power of Christ Compels You! The Power of Christ Compels You! (sorry. bad joke. only 'deja v. I feel I have seen this thread before. resurrecting and resurrecting again. another eternal thread...) Yoko Ono album? Ugghh...

First they came...

First they came for the faeries and children
and I did not speak out
because only perverts render nude fearies and children

Then they came for the G.I.R.L.
and I did not speak out
because her breasts are way too large

Then they came for AIKO
and I did not speak out
because anime doesnt look realistic

Then they came for Michael
and I didnt speak out
because only the gay would like to see a nude man

Then they came for Vicky
and I didnt speak out
because she doesnt look "average"

Then they wanted to sell Renda 2
but they couldnt,
because there was no one left to buy her.

^-^

stahlratte

Paypal and non-ridiculous credit card processors are the enemy here, I think. In order to do business, I'm sure they have to bend over to their demands for a non-adult store. The bigger you get, the more attention you recieve from outside sources who do not understand the subculture nor do they care to. What's worse? Asking these companies to lighten up would probably just make things worse, drawing attention to the site and putting it under even more scrutiny and next thing you know all renders are Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword. I think what is hard to take for most people is the utter lack of "Hey, we think this sucks too, but our hands our tied by forces more powerful than us. We're just trying to stay in operation here." Instead, and this has always been the case at this site under all of it's regimes, it's kind of the cold and indifferent "Here's the deal, Love it...we do." attitude. It strikes me as dishonest and impersonal, and as a member here for over...8 years?...I've always wanted to feel like this was a community that cares about each other from the top down. It's the sort of "You can't handle the truth" approach that just kills people's love for this place. -WTB (Who has survived worse changes than this)

So is this why 3/4ths of Baron Vlad Harkonnen's store disappeared overnight? I only discovered it last night, and was all "switch money to paypal", went to clear out my wishlist today, and poof... GONE! cry

Stahlratte: that's a very good reworking of Bertold Brecht! But I don't see people banning RMP in a kind of purchase strike. Those days are over. Besides: there are many itelms to be found here that are of good quality and that cannot be found elsewhere. This said: No one tells anyone what to buy. It's a choice you make for yourself, no? And if you don't like, don't buy. And if you don't buy, the income of the merchant and dealer gets less. And if the income gets less, they might change their minds. But, as said: Daz is not an arguement as they have been selling skins without showing what you get for a long, long time. It's always the others who force the innocent dealer to behave like that, be it Paypal or whatever. But that is not my (or your?) problem. Don't like? Don't buy. Even conservative extreme right is sensible to that.

What an excellent day for an exorcism, Karras

This thread is the first I've heard of a lot of stuff vanishing from different merchants. It's not Renderosity News. It doesn't seem to have been mentioned in any other forums. There's no sign of a change of policy, or of any reminder of existing policy, which is something I'd expect the lawyers to insist on if Renderosity were suddenly kicking stuff off the site. All I'll say is, if a Merchant just ups and leaves without a word, that's bad business on their part, and if Renderosity insists on a no-notice departure it only makes sense as the last move in a serious dispute.

[Checks Baron Vlad's stuff] Some of the items still in store have on-page references to items no longer present. Perhaps there has been some fault in the Renderosity system, rather than a deliberate removal?

Why not just do what Daz did & ban ALL nude renders in the MP & galleries? I don't hear/read any complaints over there about the policy of no nudes. Anyway it's only perverts who would wish to look at naked 3d models in the first place.

All I'll say is, if I'm a merchant and I'm not happy here, there are other sites. If I'm not happy with the lack of nudity here, there are other sites where you can show everything with details

Does anyone complain that DAZ doesn't show all of you what you buy? NOPE. So why should we complain that it happens here? My opinion might be my own, though :) I was never interested in how the privates look on the textures I buy simply because rendering pictures with them showing is so totally not my cup of tea. Clarification!: I do not mind nudity in the galleries. Noone depicted the beauty of a human body like Bourgereau, for example, and Adam on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is totally naked too. I mind depicting nude not as an artistic statement but rather as the inability to clothe the model, which is really hard to do sometimes...

kitty5
#rendergods

Does anyone complain that DAZ doesn't show all of you what you buy? NOPE. But DAZ have a 30 day money back guarantee. So if the parts they don't show you are crap, you have the option of returning. R'osity's stance on such matters is far less customer-friendly. From here, I can now only buy textures from merchants whose quality I can trust, sight unseen. That's a short list.

Quote - I was never interested in how the privates look on the textures I buy simply because rendering pictures with them showing is so totally not my cup of tea

Ditto :) I have done nudes, but I pose them where there is a leg or an arm covering their breasts and genitals. And my position on that isn't because I'm a prude because I'm not; I'm a "clothing optional" person (aka nudist). However, for art I prefer things be "eluded to".

And ther irony of it all? PayPal and ebay are owned by a religious group who are promoting the no-nudes policy. Yet, you can go on ebay, buy porn and pay for it with PayPal. This is a great contemporary definition of hypocrisy!

I was looking at Baron Vlad's stuff on Content Paradise until about five minutes ago, when it looks as though their caching expired. They seem to sell Renderosity items. Looking through the range while I could, it's not obviously nudity that's the issue. Some items still available show similar skin area to items withdrawn. It looks as though some of the accessories may have been significant, or maybe the word "pin-up" is OK while "fetish" isn't. But it still could be, lcaking any other info, the Renderosity server system suffering a mammary reorientation challenge.

Yep, no sense jumping to conclusions before you know all of the facts :)

Personally, I'm dead tired of hearing this theocon BS blamed on the credit card companies. "Adult" sites all over the web take credit cards. "Adult" bookstores and nude bars and the brothels in Nevada take credit cards. My local newsstand with its closed off back corner of "adult" magazines takes credit cards. You can use your credit card to subscribe to Hustler. DAZ doesn't do nudes because it's owned by a members of fundamentalist theocracy. I expect that R'osity has the same explanation. I quit buying here years ago. And I have pretty much stopped spending money at DAZ, just like I boycott WalMart. If you need things so badly you are willing to deal with the real perverts -- folks who want pants on dogs and think Mr Rogers went to Hell because he wasn't tough on gays -- then I feel sorry for you. Get a life, folks. M

"Banned Merchants?" What bannings ?

AFAIK, the "No-Nude-Promos" is/was limited to the 1st preview image, and the product thumbnail. The second and third images could contain nudity, and I've seen several character packs within the past month done that way. I won't get into the nudity does not equal porn debate, because the people who need to hear it won't/can't hear it.

Bilbo Bannings?

I don't see anything wrong with the ban. It only relates to the FIRST promo and the thumbnail, plus any externally linked -- and visible -- images. You can still see how the details of the texture look like on breasts and genitalia on the 2nd and 3rd promo. It's up to a merchant to provide that there. The 'every ban is bad' attitude is common, but unnecessary in this case.

This discussion is interesting got made me wondering...

Here's two questions. If a product is a complex "Body-suit" made from displacement maps and textures would the character still be blindly considered nude? Could you cover up the product and still sell it?

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:10

.

Who is going to purchase something they can't see anyway?? ahem,if you buy a character package at DAZ you will not see it nude there on ANY MODEL. and before someone says, "well,I know buying from daz that the texture is of more quality" just remember alot,if not most of the character packs that are sold there come from the SAME MERCHANTS that formerly sold here.so I ask WHAT IS the diffence? -3dz

Just to clarify. DarkWing-Zero has certainly not been banned. She took the decision to move her store to Daz, I expect because the market conditions there were more favourable. Darkscorn and Soulsilver banning has no relation whatsoever to the nudity rules. And these rules - that there should be no nudity in the first page promo or thumbnail - have been in force for all products uploaded since Nov 23rd 2004. The only change now is that we're applying the rule to the older products still in the marketplace - something that the majority of merchants have consistently asked for. "Why can't I show my V3's bum on page 1 when Merchant X has it, just because he uploaded his product a year ago?" RMP management agreed, and hence the announcement was made over 2 weeks ago, in the merchant forum and via email broadcast, that merchants were required to amend their promos and thumbnails to bring them in line with current rules. At the same time, clarification was given on the list of figures considered to be "underage", i.e. that they should not be shown nude in Marketplace promos. Again, this isn't really a change - previously the method was for a merchant to ask "Does this look too young" and generally be answered, "Yes". We're not saying these characters can't be sold, we're just asking merchants to show them in a bikini (the same way that Daz does for ALL figures.) The nudity policy in the galleries has not changed, nor has it for freestuff. Hope this settles a few concerns. Karen Poser Moderator & Marketplace Staff

Some of NemainRavenwood's products are also gone. Yay.. :-(

I thought the rule was already being applied to everything from day one anyway?

@karen I just wish users who had these merchants products on their wishlists or carts could be warned before the items were gone.. Taking Darkwing-Zero as an example, i was ready to buy some of her products today because it was said they would be gone tomorrow. Oh well..life goes on and a new year is coming. :-)

Quote - Taking Darkwing-Zero as an example, i was ready to buy some of her products today because it was said they would be gone tomorrow.

She left a message in the market place forum stating that people can contact her in PM and make private arrangements with her to obtain what they had wanted.

Hi Lucifer (wow, that sounds odd. The nuns at my old convent school would just drop dead to hear me say that, LOL) No, when the new guidelines were brought out last year, we agreed at that time that products already in the MP could remain as they were, although they wouldn't be eligible for featuring in the Newsletter unless they were updated. At that time, this was a popular decision, but in the last few months merchant opinion has swung around - probably partly because we've just all got used to NOT having boobs in our faces when we open the Marketplace, and going back to older products was like being slapped in the face by mammaries! Hence, merchants have now been asked to update their older products to fall in line with the guidelines, so that we will have a consistent approach through the marketplace. Much easier and simpler than remembering "Oh yes, it's okay for him because he uploaded that on 20th November 2004, but it's not okay for her because she uploaded that on 25th November." Karen

Guida, you could always contact DW-Z and ask her about a private arrangement to sell.
I'm not aware of NemainRavenwood moving her store but if she was partnered with DW-Z on some products then those would be removed unless DW-Z transferred ownership. Edit: Acadia beat me to it LOL

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:52

I don't really see what all the fuss is about :)

If people want to sell in a store (any store, be it virtual or not), they have to conform to the rules of that store/mall or whatever.

Those merchants that leave here will turn up at another store selling their wares, because that's what they do; sell poser items to those of us who aren't talented enough to make them ourselves. It's money for them to pay their bills, or even just to pay for their poser habit. Most aren't just going to up and walk away from that :)

I'm not concerned because I know that in a few weeks this will all be sorted out and it will be business as usual and in a few months time it will all be water under the bridge and so life goes on.

Life's just too short and stressful enough without getting bent out of shape over virtual pixels in a virtual store, be it this one or any other.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 07:55

Quote - Hi Lucifer (wow, that sounds odd. The nuns at my old convent school would just drop dead to hear me say that, LOL)

I was saying we need an exorcism...

Quote - unless DW-Z transferred ownership

She said she did.

I need a young priest and an old priest..;)
I've seen plenty of stuff for Poser offered at 'sites that dare not speak their name..;), but hey, it's their server, so they get to make the rules..;) there's nothing stopping someone from making another site (I'm sure Bondware would be happy to sell or lease their software) to anyone who wants to make a site can do so..

Thanks Acadia and karen, i'll check that :-)

In that case I don't know with NemainRavenwood, you'd have to ask her directly. Casette: You bring the holy water, I have the bell, book and candle ;-)

I have the cross!!! I was running around holding it up when someone mentioned Yoko Ono on another thread!!!!

This "nude" thing is sooooo typical american.... You can't say fuck on tv, do they have the most nude bars in the world. In the states one can blow off somebody's head with a 44 magnum. That you can buy on every street corner. And when lucky they show it realtime on 99 tv networks. Then people say Shame Shame for showing that on tv... 90% of the viewers is waithing for things like that. In otherwords: If you like to sell a character here or at Daz and you can't show the private part so be it i don't think is realy a' must to show that is it!? and otherwise that merchant can always put up a link to a private site where he can show those parts. Its called the world wide web, you can sell your work in 1000's of places. And when working with a site like renderosity you got to work with there rule's When you don't like it go somewhere else or start your own Store and make the rules... Just my 2 Euro cent's

[Darkscorn and Soulsilver banning has no relation whatsoever to the nudity rules] So Karen... why were they banned or is there something you're not telling us about other rules...?

I'm a merchant, and 95% of the other merchants do not agree with this either. It's all BS!!! Say it long enought and loud enought like karen did and ppl will believe you. "62,400 repetitions equals one truth" But we're stuck here because of the SIZE of the MP. Here I may make 500 sales a year. At the other sites (except maby Daz) it may only be 3.

Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword WTB, LOL

bkmrk

"This "nude" thing is sooooo typical american...." you know, I usually stay out of these type of threads but I am really getting tired of these type of statements. This is not just "typical of America" As you put it. I am living in a country right now that if you scratch in the wrong place it will get you arrested. The market place here as well as ALL the Japanese sites and other MPs are banned to me for the nudity issue and language issues. Crocheting sites are actually banned because the word crochet to them = crotch. I could keep going on but it's suffice to say it is not just an "American" thing...

What country kayjay? Not even suprised.

i want to go on record as saying that deciding on the age of a toon and an anime depiction of a female is absolutely absurd. especially a toon with the default chest / waist ratio of girl. on the subject of daz and nudity- actually that's why i don't buy textures at daz unless they're by artists who have proven their quality with multiple products in market places that do allow full nudity (e.g., morris, lobo75). or if it's in the platinum club. i figure for two bucks, i can't go wrong.

Hi RGUS, So Karen... why were they banned or is there something you're not telling us about other rules...? C'mon man, that's confidential. You could always go and ask them though, if they're hanging out somewhere else.

Hanging around here long enough I think I can guess what got them banned. I can be completely wrong, but banned, store closed and gallery deleted ... there is not much that gets you such a treatment. Regarding nudity on promos: a work around could be that the merchants set up a website for their products with nude renders of a texture set and/or character and offer links to that website on request. They could mention that on the product page. Putting a link to a website that shows nudity on models that are underage (LOL) is probably not ok. But I can see nothing wrong when such a link would be send on request.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 12:15