Okay, thank you first for all your answers, one more questions, hmmmmm, I do I ask this.....those of you using Poser 5 or 6....do you have any big specific problems with models created for Poser 4 or Pro Pack? thank you again for your time. Sharen

So far no problems at all. And by the way thank you for all the neat stuff you guys have done over the years. Butch

Often, smooth polygons must be turned off manually, if vertices haven't been split. Some items with trans maps and/or reflection maps have to be adjusted in the material room. Some of the very old items have .bum maps attached to have to be manually corrected to look for .jpg maps, since P5/6 won't convert bump maps the way P4 did.

No probs, except the stated bum maps adjustment.

Smooth polygons is the biggest problem. You can set your render options so smooth polys is off, but I like using smooth polys. It really improves the quality of the render. You can turn smooth polys off for individual objects, but it takes awhile, for something with a lot of separate parts, such as a house. (This is something I've run into with your models, Sharen; I love 'em, but they blow up like marshmallows in the microwave in Poser 5.)

Another problem is "reversed normals." Poser 4 will render the backside of polys the same as the front side, but Firefly will not. Poser 6 has the "normals forward" option, which can fix it. With Poser 5, there's a fix you can do with nodes in the material room.

There's also the "L-shaped polys" problem. Poser 4 didn't have any problem with L-shaped (concave) polygons, but Firefly does. It won't render them correctly, and there's no easy way to fix it from inside Poser. I have not run into this in any of your models; it's most commonly seen in Marforno's older architectural models, as "webs" in the corners of the windows.

Textures can be an issue with Firefly, too. Hair that was made for P4 often looks "noisy" in Firefly. Usually, you can fix it by fiddling with the render settings. Some people run hair textures through Photoshop to sharpen them before using them in P5/6.

The most common texture issue is bump maps that don't attach correctly. If an item was made for PP, the bump maps will not be attached correctly in P5/6. They will either not be attached at all, or they will be attached to the gradient node instead of the bump. (This is a common problem with DAZ products.)

Message edited on: 01/11/2006 06:09

I didn't have any problems when using PP files in Poser 5. I didn't use Poser 4 files because everytime I tried I was sent on a hunt to find files. I've only been using Poser 6 for a short time, but so far other than premade light sets, I haven't had any problems. Premade light sets however are pretty much useless in Poser 6 if they have more than 8 lights because of this OpenGL stuff. If there are more than 8 lights the image in the pose room turns black and you can't see to do anything. It renders ok though, but not being able to see the pose room image after applying the lights is a real problem, and not all computers can handle this OpenGL stuff... mine totally seizes up.

Only probs`same as already said - smooth polys and bomps being attached to 'gradient bump' instead of 'bump' node Some reflections created in PP look odd in P5/6 too

Nothing besides what has been mentioned above.

I have the same problem with *.bum (have to create jpg bumpmaps and edit the Poser file accordingly) and also, but that is probably because I have multiple runtimes, Poser 6 takes hours looking for referenced files with a path like F:blablablablablabla so I have to edit all my Poser files manually to change all pathnames to :Runtime:textures:SAMS3D:file.jpg Thanks for asking! I love your stuff! France

So far I haven't had any problems with P4/PPP stuff in P6.

P5 / P6. No troubles with PPP stuff. P4 yes, because *.bum's

Ditto all the above....

Using Poser 5, I have the BUM complaint too.

Also, an irritation rather than a problem:

MANY items (including almost all at DAZ) STILL come with .rsr instead of .png thumbnails.

While I can (and DO) convert them before installing, I find this a total waste of time. (And I know Poser converts them too but I like to see what I'm getting/installing before doing so!)

We are now on Poser 6 and while I accept many people still use P4/PP, I'm amazed at how many merchants are still stuck in a a timewarp...

Message edited on: 01/11/2006 07:59

Message edited on: 01/11/2006 08:00

Partial MAT poses are supposed not to work in Poser 6 - many do, but some cause trouble. The proper solution is to convert them to material collections (MC6).

not had any noticeable problems so far... niggles such as the smooth polygon and bump map thing, but some models designed for P5/6 seem to have the same smooth polygon problem, and the bump map thing is just something intrinsic to the P4 beast, so I can hardly moan that older models aren't up to speed with current technology, can I? :) friendlyrogue

everything randym77 said plus i dislike having to convert rsr files. rsr files waste space (for me). yes they are each small but in mass they take up a considerable bit of space and are completely useless to me. I also like having png files in the zip so that i can look in the zip (thru windows explorer) and open just the png to see what the item is. If it is only an rsr i have to pull it all out and convert it to see the image. one other thing. I have had trouble with some p4/pp MAT files. sometimes they only add the image node. if for some reason i have changed the diffuse_value or Ambient settings or such it will apply the texture but not "fix" any other settings.

everything is fine with Poser 4

All of the above mentioned seems to cover my issues! G

I've had no trouble at all.

Bump map problems as said above.

Since P6 material room has Normals_Forward function; no problems at all. I hate bum files ;) Mazak

No

Not a problem.

It seems that the older models/figures don't have their morphs collected into groups, which makes them a hassle to navigate through on the property palette.

No problem other than the bum problem as noted in previous inputs

As above, the .bum files.

Perspective from a newbie: I've been working with Poser 6 for 4 months and avoid buying or using anything for Poser 4 - and usually Poser 5 as well. I have no expereince with earleir versions, so maybe I am naive about their benefits. As a newbie, my thinking is that the figures from perior verions are not as detailed, so I avoid them or discard/delete them. No one has shared a perspective of a new user like myself so I wanted to share these thoughts. Thanks for asking and evolving the community.

As others have already stated --

With P6, .bum files can be problematic at times. Also, certain for-P4 textures don't render properly under firefly. You get all sorts of strange artifacts, patterns, etc.. It can usually be worked around: but it's an irritation.

Other than that, P4 stuff seems to work OK in P6 98% of the time. Of course, P4 stuff won't take advantage of many of P6's advanced features. And that's a problem. It's like being held back to a crawl when what you want to do is to run -- or to fly. It's an unnecessary handicap.

Message edited on: 01/11/2006 11:33

P4 models are okay but sometimes the Mat poses make it crash whenever I try applying them. PP Mats work just fine same as P5/6 ones, must be that .bum thing.

It can usually be worked around: but it's an irritation.

It can usually be worked around, but often newbies don't know that. They may not even know there is a problem.

For example, I'd been using Poser 5 for a year before I realized that PP MATs don't work correctly with P5. I suspect many P5/6 users still don't realize that. It doesn't seem like a problem, because the item still "works" - you can render it, and it looks okay.

But it looks much better if the bumps are attached correctly. If I were the modeller or texturer, I would want it to look its best. As it is, I bet 50% of DAZ's customers are rendering V3 with incorrect bump maps, because they assume the MAT files work in P5/6. I did, for almost a year, and I thought DAZ just had poor-quality, muddy-looking textures. I was telling people not buy the DAZ textures because they're overpriced and ugly. But with the bump maps fixed, they're great.

The thing is, these days newbies are likely to be P5 or P6 users. When you buy a new program, you usually buy the newest version. They are not likely to know how to fix these problems. While the PP users generally will know; they've been using PP since it was new. IMO, it makes sense to make your products compatible with P6, and let the experienced "legacy" users tweak as necessary. Instead, most Poser merchants do the opposite.

ditto the problems mentioned above.

only with models I create..;) still haven't figured out how to turn the amibience down on imported objects, and use the color zones I create; 3ds works ok, tho..;)

Only the bump maps but since thre's now a Wacro to convert them it ain't much of a big deal. I do wish Sanctum Art would take some notice of P6, though.

Ditto the above, namely bumps and smoothing issues. Randym makes a good point - as time goes on it becomes more likely that the people still using P4 are probably power-user/purist/die-hards who are big and ugly enough to tweak a made-for-P6 product, with utilities to convert to rsr etc. As a merchant I will be focussing on P6 product with perhaps something in the readme to help P4 users get things to work. Eventually P6-only will allow lower poly models because they don't need extensive beveling, vert splitting etc to prevent P4 over-smoothing. Ooops, rambling in a survey, and it didn't say "use extra sheets if necessary" :o)

Mine is the smooth polygons, and bump maps

re the Bum thing:

As a P4 user, I don't mind converting the jpgs included for P5&6, when I notice prior to loading. (gotta make some concessions if one persists in remaining a Luddite). However it does truly get to be a hassle when the .cr2/.pp2 automatically loads the named jpg first.

When that occurs, Poser4 will not let you subsequently load and convert the file - saying that the file (the jpg) is already loaded.

Only way out when the jpg gets loaded first is to close the PZ3, open a new one, load & convert the jpg to bum, close and reopen the original PZ3. -- a real speedbump in the process.

Perhaps, you might consider including bump maps as PNG files. That way, AFAK, P6 would load them and P4 would balk, allowing me to manually fetch an alternate .JPG version (if included) or go convert the PNG to JPG and proceed with the load without bailing out.

-just a thought

Attached Link: http://www.sams3d.com

assuming no clothing involved... problems: * bump files often in the wrong node, and also incorrect strength. * transparency often has incorrect settings. dislikes: * materials often look flat and unreal compared to p5/p6 optimized materials, which i'm often using on other objects in the scene. * high polygon count items needlessly bogging down the scene when a lower poly version with smoothing would look the same. * having to make displacement maps for appropriate items such as tiles, embossing, seams, etc. (just want large elements like tiles, not the texture on them, so bump is not the same). * light systems that load an inordinate numbers of lights to acheive what a single IBL or point light can do (if you include lights in your products). * rsr's cluttering up my directories. sorry, it's a pet peeve - i like to have just the pngs. with as many freebies and products i have, doubling the amount of size all the previews take is just needless weight. * figures with parts that would work better if dynamic that are difficult to refactor. if the draping part is in multiple groups for posing, i presently don't know how to join the groups into a single dynamic group. also, it can be difficult to set any of the other types of groups (constrained, choreographed, soft and hard decorated groups). if i understood the grouping tool or uvmapper better, i could probably get around that.

Bump map issues, also smooth polys. And most of all: MATs do NOT function on props (or HR2 hair) in my P6. Makes no difference whether they are parented or not. :] Fish

I bought "Living Room B Pack" and "Plantation House" from your Sam's 3D store & both don't work in Poser 5 very well if at all. The house with a lot of work is usable but I never got to use the furniture.

Oh man, why did you not say something....IM me the problems you have with these models, I will try to help you out. Sharen

Just the problems already mentioned. Most irritating are the odd reversed normals. It is easy if all normals are reversed but one or two usually in a vital part can be extremely annoying.

Just the rsr thumbs. I hates havin' to find/ delete 'em. I know it'd be extra hassle, but I mysef as a user would have no complaints w/ an extra DL fer the appropriate thumbs (i.e; none included in the main Product DL)

Hey, what do you know... pulled out my Sam's 3D files for the first time in over 2 years and got them to work. Difference between what I knew about making changes in the P5 material room then and now. :)

My only use for P4 (don't have PPP) is to check backwards compatibility (sometimes) for models and props that I make. Only issue that frustrates me, like others who have posted here, is the bump mapping issue.

I keep reading complaints from p6 users, but as a p5 user I haven't had any problems with anything. If there are any backwards compatability problems they came in with p6 and not p5 - however I thinkg the p6 complaints have been over other issues if I remember right.

From P5: reversed normals are a major pain. The "normals forward" option of P6 fixes the problem - more or less. Models that have their normals pointing the right way are still better. From P5: "ballooning" when polygon smoothing. P6 fixes most of those problems with the maximum crease setting, but not all (most problems occur with DAZ items). P5 and P6: incorrect bumps and MAT poses. And the UV mapping of some P4/PP targeted items prevents intelligent material room work, so only hi-res memory hogging texture/bump maps can be used to make it look good.

What svdl said. These problems all came in with Poser 5. Poser 6 includes fixes for many of them, such as the "normals forward" option.

I suspect you've experienced at least some of them, perhaps without realizing it. DAZ's MAT files do not work correctly in Poser 5. Some recent items have P5-friendly MAT files, but most do not. They apply the texture map, so you may think it's working right, but if you go into the material room, you'll see the bump map is either not attached, or attached to the gradient node instead of the bump.

Attached Link: http://www.stewreo.de/poser/firefaq.html#8

Same as answer in 3 above. Q

Apart from the bump maps everyone is mentioning no problems so far.