I am wondering how many of you out there actually use the second skins that come with character textures... Do you think that they are a benefit to the pack? or would you rather have something else included? Thanks in advance for your input.

I have a couple that use second skins and only a few actually look realistic. I feel only tight garments look real as any wrinkle in the fabric doesn't translate well in 2D. I'd prefer actual 3D over painted on unless it's like undergarments and such.

Yes, I think they are a significant benefit. I have bought one or two character packs just for the second skins. I always morph my V3s quite a bit, making it difficult to find clothes that fit (um, when I actually dress them...), hence the value of second skins. And thanks for asking!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1151135&Start=1&Artist=jenay&ByArtist=Yes

Message edited on: 03/06/2006 09:25

I would like second skin clothing included as a seperate file with a trans map so that it can be applied with nodes over the skin... that is to say overlayed in poser not in photoshop :) makeup done with trans maps would be awesome too.

I have bought nearly all my textures specifically for the second skins and would buy more had I the money. However, some of the second skin close in the MP are masterfull while maybe most are just awefull! I agree with Tyger_purr.

Thanks for your input everyone. Tyger_purr, if there is a tutorial somewhere on how to do that, I'd be interested in seeing it. I was asking for your input because my latest characters all have second clothes and I wondered how many people just let the second skins rot in their directories. :0

:), In doing the second skins, I thought that perhaps a character for S3P or Aiko might appeal to more people who might otherwise have no clothing for those models. That was my thought anyway. I was afraid that I was investing all of this time into creating second skins that no one cared about anyway.

Iv seen a tutorial for the makeup but i dont know where it is off hand. i dont thing there is a tutorial for the second skin clothing but here http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2020478 is the thread where i learned to do it. the node setup is in post 7 its just 3 image maps and a blender node.

one of the advantages to second skins done with trans maps applied as i showed in that thread is that it is not limited to your texture. it could be applied to any texture. Using mat or mc6 files would require you to have your texture attached in the nodes. however, you could use ShaderSpiders fx6 to make a partial material file that would apply your second skin clothing on top of whatever texture is already applied. shaderspider LE applies fx6 files and is a free download so you wont be limted to people who own shaderspider.

In addition second skin cloting with trans maps can be applied to Mill mapped bodysuits/catsuits (with transparency in stead of a skin texture) and loosened to look much more realistic.

Reguarding your Makeup done with trans maps. You might try this.It's called ABGraph Make Up Set and is for P5(not sure what version you have). http://www.renderosity.com/freestuff.ez?Topsectionid=0&Form.SortOrder=UserName&Start=13&Form.Search=True&Form.Criteria=Make+Up+Set

Second skins are only useful for really tight clothes, like stockings or undies. And then only if accompanied by a decent bump/displacement map.

And they're good for makeup.

I second the idea of makeup and second skins made with partial P5/P6 shaders. That way the second skin can be applied to any compatible texture, and the user can mask bump/displacement mapping.

P4/PP can't handle masked second skins. Well, that's 1998 technology, welcome to 2006!.

P5/P6 users are way, way better off with masked second skins.

Message edited on: 03/06/2006 15:39

I, personally, actually prefer a character with a second skin option as opposed to one without. I can make my own skin textures, but, if someone makes a really great second skin, there's a really good chance that it will make it's way to my runtime ;)

Sumi by Spiritfoxy is one of my favorite second skins for Aiko. I also like the ones by DM. And I like using the second skins for extreme poses where clothing would go all wonky on you.

I have seen (and own) some wonderful secondskin jeans, leather pants, haltertops, and t-shirts as well as underwear. They are good for the stated reasons that they are great for figures you don't have clothes for and for figures so big on memory you can't run them with clothes in the same scene. Also second skin gives no poke through or conforming issues and bump maps as well as morphs can give them volume even when they are actually on the figure texture rather than a catsuit. The community acts as though they are doing wall sized renders as the norm, but how often do you see a render where the poly count of V3 or Miki is obviously needed as oposed to saaay... V2 Reduced Resolution? I would like my seams and zippers to be bumped but am I doing 3000x3000 renders of V3 pans fly? Not too often. I like second skin and I definately buy almost exclusivly ApoGraphix from Fenrissa for my textures not just because of the quality of the textures and characters but also very much for the lovely second skin. Bump map for detailing and cuff morphs would be real nice... I have not bought any but I have made some and the results are great... you could even use the default unimesh cuff morphs but making your own would be better.

IMO second skins are only usefull for stockings, and MAYBE underwear.

Everything else looks simply BAD, even in an average sized render.

Displacement maps seem to be a solution, but
Im completely against them (in Poser), as they force you to use Poserscrappy Firefly renderer that takes forever to render.
As long as 1998s technology can render my pics in seconds instead of hours, its fine with me.

I also cant help but think that many use them just as a cop out for sloppy modelling.
And it really irritates me if I cant see how an item looks like in preview mode.

There are two better options to reduce polycount:

1. A "dummie" figure. One that has only the head, neck and hands as "real" bodyparts, but the rest are ghost parts without actual geometry.

2. A "casual" figure. Thats the "dummie" with the clothes merged into a single figure like the default Poser "casual" figures.

Both solutions give much better results than painted on clothes, yet have a lot less polygons than a standard clothed figure.

And of course you still can just make the unecessary bodyparts invisible. ;-P
(Yes, Poser ignores invisible items)

stahlratte

Very few second skins look good. The ones by Danie/Maforno are the best I've seen. I would definitely encourage vendors to supply the "transmap" file so that the second skin can be applied to any skin texture using the blender mode. Otherwise I just have to make it myself.

Thanks for your input once again. I can see a new direction here for second skin clothing... Thanks for the links! I will definately check them out.

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=15159

It's less of a problem with male figures. The chest area in female figures is always a giveaway. On the other hand, men don't usually wear pants so tight that they slide up between the buttocks. What happened to all those comments about how paint-on clothing is so Poser 3?

The chest area in female figures is always a giveaway. i agree, but considering what passes as "great work" in the galleries. i dont thing the bar is set real high. :p There are some outfits that just wont work as second skin. even on a bodysuit. But there are things that will work and i'm kinda supprised nobody has picked up on it. >men don't usually wear pants so tight that they slide up between the buttocks. there are morphs to fix that >What happened to all those comments about how paint-on clothing is so Poser 3? probably not enought people around that remember poser 3 to make the comment. :D

I agree, Fenrissa is awesome with her second skins. I aspire to be that good. ;)

They are nice - I'm glad I read this thread 'cos I didn't know about them before.

A control map can be used for transparency, displacement, or blending a Second Skin with a character-skin. Yes, a lot of that needs the Firefly render engine. If a suitable bitmap is provided, I can choose whether or not to use Firefly.

I've posted one or two things which show the potential of Firefly. It's taken me a while to get a feel for it, but if meshes have useful material zones, it's an incredibly powerful tool.

Quote - I am wondering how many of you out there actually use the second skins that come with character textures... Do you think that they are a benefit to the pack? or would you rather have something else included? Thanks in advance for your input.

More so when I first got Poser than I do today. Back then I had a hard time getting clothing to fit my characters after they were morphed, so I tended to look for character addon packages that had second skin textures because at least I could dress the figures, LOL Now it depends on what the second skin is and what type of image I wish to portray with a particular render. I usually try them out for a render or two after I install the package, and then I don't often return to the second skins because I tend to mix and match my morphs and textures to get different looks. Plus unlike clothing where you can change textures and colours in the material room, a second skin can't easily be rehued.

momodot, that image of the second skins is excellent. The jeans actually look real.

Message edited on: 03/08/2006 06:51

Attached Link: second skin by _Fenrissa _