Attached Link: http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/62/2462/summary.php

Does anyone know of 'available' packages which can do this sort of thing? Apparently it's done with "Interpolated Rotoscoping" from what i've read (see attached link). I'm assuming from the name, it means it's vectorized from the characters (it 'is' taken from live action after all). It sounds like they adapted the technology, but from what? Are there any "Interpolating Rotoscoper" type packages on the market? Oh yeah, Winona Ryder is in it; one of my all-time fave' babes! And yes, you can bet yer nut's she's gonna steal the show :-D Len. (Get it? - Ahhh, never mind, they'll get better I promise)

Its a Plugin....

What's the plugin called, or rather - what does it plug into?

A socket! LOLOLOLOL! Sorry, couldn't resist!

Is it like a Glade Plugin?

Attached Link: http://www.vpainter.com/

Rotoscoping is where live characters are photographed then animation cells are drawn over each frame. This is done to get world events and timing right when animating. The Warner Brothers cartoon Swing Shift Cinderella had a dance scene that was rotoscoped. This was the character that Jessica Was baised on in "Who Framed Rodger Rabbit?" Lot's of the Battle Scenes in Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" were very badly rotoscoped from old nazi war footage. I'm assuming an "Interpolating Rotoscoper" allows the animator to draw Keyframes for cells then creates animation cells by tracking the movements in the live action footage. The bad news is the plugin was created by Richard Linklater's group in Warner Indipendant Films. It's not likely this will be offered with Max Or Maya any time soon. The other bad news is that the Animation cells were probably hand done combining several techniques. I don't think there is a plugin you can use on still frames to exactly achieve that effect. Virtual painter is a possibility. There are also some redfield plugins that work in photoshop or paintshop.

Attached Link: http://www.equilibrium.com/Internet/Equil/Products/DeBabelizer/Product+Tour/index.htm

hmmmm....there is a program called deBabelizer that I got many (5? 6?) years ago, that not only does wonders converting between just about every possible graphics file format, but also handles movie/animation formats. In it, you can apply Photoshop filters on a frame-by-frame basis, or can do automated batch processing. I imagine that using a Photoshop 'posterize' and/or 'find edges' effect that this can be accomplished. (searching, searching....ah, here it is....) Equilibrium is the company. They're up to version 6 currently, but you may be able to find an earlier (ie, cheaper) version at Ebay or Amazon.

i thought ya stick thumbs in socets

@TheBryster
You're losing your touch - that was just 'too' predictable ;-)

@drawbridgep
Aye masta draaarbridge, aye - that it could be :-D

@electroglyph
When they said interpolated, I thought they meant the images themself were vectorized. I see what you mean though, but if it's just interpolation between the keyframes - it's not doing nothing like what I thought it was.

I was thinking you could put any action (live/animated) into it, let it analyze, and then maybe export any frame you wish - so that it could be used directly as a ready-made vector image.

If it's not vectorized then I can't really see much (if any) difference between that and say, Sketch&Toon for Cinema. They're probably just trying to make it sound different.

@Rosemaryr
Thanks for the link. Had a quick butchers, but to be fair I think DeBabelizer (and VPainter) aren't doing anything that couldn't be achieved using 'FilmStrip' format in Premiere. At first glance, I can't really see what it offers over, say PhotoPaint or Photoshop. I totally agree on the method you'd use though ;-)

@deadman67
"i thought ya stick thumbs in socets"
Well, you've got the right name for it alright!

Len.
Headz'a'spinnin'

Len, take a butchers :-) at my little tutorial on "cell" shading in Bryce over at DAZ. Basically, you can achieve something like that look with Bryce and Photoshop for the edges. No Posterize, no Find Edges. Greater control. What else a man needs? :-)

Taking a look at the image of the girl in the car, my first thought was reduce you image to 256 colour, or less and do an area averaging.

@Erlik
Took a butchers!

It's a great tutorial - good idea as well. It's great for Manga, but it'd be a bit too tedious for animating I think.

I also read through the comments, and notice you're a Ghost In The Shell fan, and hey, me too ;-)

I'm off into town tomorrow to pick-up the Special-Edition DVD. I'm craving to see the extras on it, how they made it etc. I haven't seen the second movie (Innocence) yet, so I'm just gonna wait until they release the Special-Edition version of it before I buy that one. If it's only half as good as the first, it'll be great - 'cos I reckon the styling in Ghost In The Shell is kick-ass, and the story is great.

@Cyba_Storm
Yup, I get ya - though I've never tried an area averaging over a 256 before. I'll have to have a go at that, cheers!

Len.
(...can't think of what to put in here this time...)

@Len...sure, 'prolly Premiere could do it also, and likely better. Not having Premiere though, I couldn't offer it as a suggestion. grin Just trying to answer the original question as to "available packages". The more choices one has, the better.

It would be awful for animating. It's just for still images. And do find Innocence. Visually, it's better than the first one. Story- and film-wise, it's also quite nice.

@Rosemaryr
Hey sure, no probs - I appreciate it, anything on this really ;-)

I'll tell you something 'bout Premiere though. To be honest, I myself haven't had Premiere for long. I got it cheap recently through buying what they call their 'Elements' bundle. I was never a fan of Adobe mainly because of their pricing - but this 'Elements' bundle gives you Photoshop4 AND Premiere2 for 100. I'm having to eat my word's because for once, I reckon Adobe is actually WORTH the money I paid for it, and I recommed the bundle big-time!

@Erlik
Great stuff, cheers - I look forward to seeing it when they release the Special-Edition. Also that new one (Blood), also by Manga.

I think the cel shader in Cinema can do this. The sketch and toon module definitely can.

Trace Bitmap feature in Flash can do this too. But unless you go about manually cleaning up each resulting vector image for each frame it's too unweildy. (Too many stray points, little pieces, etc.) But yeah, it can be done to some degree if you put the hours into it.

I learnt a few years ago not to read Phillip Dick novels or stories before going to bed (trippy nightmares). If the movies anywhere as good as the book, worth seeing. I'm a bit unsure about the look though (interesting as it is).

In the states there's been a series of TV spots running using the same style as above. They're for some stockbrokerage, I don't remember who. There's maybe 3 or 4 of them, and they look pretty good. I'd like to know how it's done just so I could get the program and play around with it.

Richard, I don't think you'd get that effect with the included CellShader. However, now that I know it's not vectorised, I'm in full agreement 'bout Sketch&Toon being able to do it.

It looks like that's going to be the best bet here. Problem is, I don't want to update my current Cinema core (8.5), 'cos it's getting very costly - and even if I did, I'd have to update again and loose almost everything just in order to get Clothilde in the animation plugin.

Hmmm... yep, sure looks like Sketch&Toon - but I'll have to wait until they release CinemaX or possibly X.5 because I've been watching their way of doing things - and they ain't gonna catch me out again ;-)

Paul, yeah I think it would be too unweildy - it would be far more Pro-looking to use Cinema. Again, that would be good for stills though, cheers!

Mahray, I've never read the book, but I'll definitely go and see the movie. Gonna be cool to see that effect on the 'Big-Screen', and of course, there's always Ryder as an added incentive :-P

Ganthor, I'm in the UK - so I don't know of the ads you're referring to. But, as you've probably guessed by the previous stuff - you should look at Sketch&Toon for Cinema (better still, grab the demo). Visually, it shouldn't have any prob's creating this effect - although technically, I think there are differences somewhere along the line.

Off Topic Warning Forgive me for making this observation, but I'm constantly amazed at the number of people from the UK and other parts of Europe who frequent this forum. It seems to be a regular hotbed of Bryce users. I for one am grateful to have a chance to interact with people from places I've always been very interested in and will never get a chance visit. And as a second observation, it's interesting to see that Winona Ryder still can generate some interest in some parts of the world. After her shoplifting conviction (as well as some other goofy behavior) she's pretty much dropped off the radar over here in the states. So far as the film industry is concerned in America, she's committed professional suicide. I was never a big fan of her work to begin with and really lost all interest after her clumsily executed performance in DRACULA (give me a Hammer film any day), but I digress... We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

LMAO

Hey Ganthor, what interests you about the UK?
(It's not all thatched cottages and lush green hills tha knows lad)

As for the Ryder bashing, well, dunno what to say really.

Personally, I think you 'mericans ought to be quite proud of her. Unlike MOST of your female pinup 'film idols' from the eighties onward - 'she' is still around, still acting, still versatile, still doing something. There's not many actresses can say that.

I mean sure, she's kinda screwed-up sometime - buy hey, she's an actress, and I think the shoplifting incident only served to give her a more rebellious kinda reputation (and looking at her recent filmography - not surprisingly, it's 'boosted' her output).

Also - I think she's pretty hot, I mean all goth-like and stuff and...

BTW, I'm amazed they even show Hammer films in America. Personally, I like a good Hammer just like you. But I've heard them being the butt of a few jokes over the years.

Len.
(I wonder if she'd consider a Playboy photo-shoot)

Pumeco: At the risk of going wildly off topic here... What about the UK interests me? Well, about 1,000 years of history for starters. I'm a history nut to begin with and an American Revolutionary War reenactor, so there's that for starters. I've just always had a real interest in that part of the world on so many levels. As to Ryder, I don't dislike her, I just don't go out of my way to watch her films, like so many actors. She never connected with me I guess because she wasn't of my generation.There are other actors I'd rather watch. As to the "Goth" thing, over here that is like, forgive the pun, so dead. Biker seems to be the thing. Lots of tattoos... Hammer films in America? Lord, they've been a staple of American TV since the early 1960s! They hit the theatres over here about a year after they were released up until the studio went under in the early 1980s. There's a huge following over here for the films. Sure they're cheap and often times corny, but they're sort of like your first great love, you never forget them. Peter Cushing is one of my idols for his work on screen and off. They didn't call him St. Peter around the set for nothing. Would she consider a Playboy photo-shoot? With some of the photos that are around on the net, I wouldn't think she'd have to! Who knows if they're real or not, but the make for some interesting viewing. Sorry for rambling....

No prob's going off-topic - ramble away, I enjoy it.

I've read a few posts in this forum here and there, where Americans and other non-Brits seem to envy our history. I didn't realize you were a 'History Nut', so from that point of view I can understand it (it's diverse, interesting, and above all - old).

Sometimes though, I read stuff and sorta' sit here grinning to myself thinking "Yeah, they've been watching fairy-tales again", either that, or they've been listening to some nut who's only visited and seen England from a short-term visitors point of view.

When I think of America for example (I've never been there), I think wide-open roads, a Burger-bar every 500 yards, and folk sticking on their shades to take a ride on their Harley. I don't even think about the history.

On the other hand, when I think of the UK (where I 'do' live), I think;

Ah yes - the UK! Land of the crazy-cows! The only island surrounded by water where you have to pay water-bills, yet are 'still' subject to water shortages (I mean pump it from the f*ckin' ocean for crying out loud).

A land where everyones TV entertainment must suffer at the hand of a certain entertainment monopoly which buys-up the programs that WE paid for in our licence fee, and then forces us not only to pay to watch it again - but also to pay for the priviledge of letting them 'do' it again!

A land where you're expected to get up, sit in a jam, work your ass of, sit in another jam, watch bullshit, go to bed... and so the cycle begins again... and for what?

To get a mortgage you'll probably never pay-off, an ID card rammed down your throat (coming to a UK near you soon), and be bled dry of any possible earnings which, god forbid, you thought you might actually be entitled to keep once in a while.

That's England sir!
(As I see it)

Hammer - good, but yes, sometimes corny.

Ryder nude photographs; WHERE! WHERE! WHERE!
(And how did you know of them - you old goat?)

Len.
(Link please) ;-)

Slightly back on topic. Here's a photo from last year's DragonCon.

Here's the same picture with the virtual painter Collage plugin. Attributes set to subtile. copied as a layer and pasted over the original 50% opacity. It can be done on film if you want to muck around and find the right filters. Poser also has a cartoon render and there is a new Manga Studio but they work from poser characters not pictures.

Oooooooooh!

Thanks for that electroglyph ;-)

It looks to have 'cellized' the white body-armour pretty good, and I'm assuming it would have done more so with heavier attributes.

It seems to be verctorizing (in appearence) things that aren't there; Her arm for example, it seems to be actually adding stuff. And the dude in the background, he's got a woven look to him :-/

Is this plugin included, or is it extra? And how sophisticated is it regarding parameters, I mean is there just an intensity setting or is it a lot deeper than that? I know I should just go and try demos, but I don't like installing stuff I might not use, so it's always best to ask those that use already use it ;-)

...hey, that Japanese babe just winked at me!

bookmark

Attached Link: http://www.redfieldplugins.com/Downloads.htm

The Virtual painter plugins for collage and pastel are free to try at the link I posted way back above. There are also demo versions of chalk, charcoal, other filters that put the word DEMO on anything you do. You can check them out and try the different controls enough before you buy the set. Typical full versions are 20-$40. You should also check out the redfield plugins at the link I posted in this message. Lot's of free plugins plus a demo version of Sketchmaster. Another good tool that fakes hand drawings from photos. Thanks again to AgentSmith who keeps posting these from time to time.

Aha!

THAT'S more like it - the Redfield SketchMaster looks superb, thank's 'glyph and AS.

It's not exactly the same sort of look, but it's got massive potential to give your work your own look - that's for sure.

Just downloaded it, off to play a bit :-)

"When I think of America for example (I've never been there), I think wide-open roads, a Burger-bar every 500 yards, and folk sticking on their shades to take a ride on their Harley. I don't even think about the history." In some spots of this country, that's about right. I grew up in the south (Tennessee) so you can kind of guess what kind of things that brings up! Yes, I can read and write (but not spell very well), yes, I wear shoes and no, I don't own any pigs. The history is there, but most people are ignorant of it, but it seems to be remembered in the south a little more than the north (I've lived in both), and that's only because of the War Between The States. "Ryder nude photographs; WHERE! WHERE! WHERE! (And how did you know of them - you old goat?)" I've seen them a bunch of places from time to time. I couldn't tell you exactly where, but they're around. I remember one black and white shot of her sitting in a bathtub...Um...maybe we should talk about this somewhere else... Re: Test Photos and DragonCon Pretty nice effect..and the filters, too! I haven't been to DragonCon in years and years. In fact, the last time I was there it was called The Atlanta Fantasy Fair, back in the 1980s. Anyway, interesting effect.

@electrolyph SketchMaster is great! In your first post I followed the link and forgot all about the Redfield suggestion. You get good control over the outline effect with it - I like that. I'm sitting here now, wondering how to automate this in Photoshop. FilmStrip format is good but it brings my 'puter to it's knees. I think Photoshop 'can' automate though, so I'll just have to read-up on it. What would be the icing on the cake though, would be if Premiere could use this plugin, and apply it frame-by-frame, but I don't think it's possible. Still Premiere is new to me so maybe I'm wrong - I dunno. @Ganthor If I lived out there, I'd buy a GoldWing and just cruise in the sun on those big open roads with just about no traffic at all! I'm not a biker (it's just about suicidal in this country), but if I lived out there I think that'd be a major part of my lifestyle. Oh yeah, and there would have to be some goddess riding pinion, of course :-) Speaking of goddess' Actually, I know the pic you're referring to, I've seen it as well, and yes, I reckon it was fake. Not that I cough came accross it intentionally you understand. Nooooooooo, I just typed Winona Ryder into Google, fingers slipped and accidentally added the word "nude"! Len. (Likes Google - sometimes)

I don't know if that photo is a fake or not. I've seen 2 different versions of it, each taken from a slightly different angle with different expressions. Who knows? Might be from a secret stash of an irate boyfriend...or girlfriend. You know how these Hollywood types are... I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but we've got to be careful using Google over here. The US government tried to get all of Google's records of who was searching for what to see if anybody was doing anything against national security. 1984 came just a little later, that's all. A Goldwing? Well, I guess. I'm a Harley person myself. Not that I can aford to own one, but it's nice to dream.

I've only seen one of the photos, but what you said 'bout a girlfriend taking a pic could well be true, going by what I saw in a documentary about her "The Real Winona Ryder".

As for the Google thing, I thought America was supposed to be a land of the free and all that ;-) So long as you're not a threat to security I wouldn't worry about it. Fact is that everyone, everywhere, is being monitored on the internet from the moment they connect, in both your neck of the woods and mine - everywhere!

GoldWing? Hell yeah :-)
Ever since I got up close to one I've wanted one. I remember years back, on a day out to Skegness; They had heaps of them travelling through the streets like some convoy, and they all met-up at some pub, it must have been some fan-club meeting or something.

Anyway, some dude let me sit on it, and well... you can guess the rest. That's some machine, I mean a 6-cylinder engine in a bike - lol Even the back seat looked like a leather armchair and the entire bike was black (with just a hint of chrome) - and it looked a lot better than the tarted-up things they had there.

I never got to ride on it unfortunately, but you could see, as some of them took-off, it must have been like gliding on air - and for a big-bike like that, they seemed to shoot-off really quick, and even so, you could bearly hear the thing.

I just thought - WOW effin' WOW!

As for Harleys, they're cool, but until they make a bike that's as practical as a GoldWing, I tend not to be quite so impressed with them. I just think a GoldWing is brute-power/refinement/practical all in one.

Yes... sigh it's nice to dream.
(I'll see if I can find a pic of the model I meant)

Can't find the exact model, but I believe this is the new version of it (I preferred the styling of the previous). That's some machine - that is! Len. (Drooling IS allowed)

Good lookin' bike. I haven't paid attention to them in a while and they've changed a lot. If you really want to travel in style for long distances, it's probably the way to go. "As for the Google thing, I thought America was supposed to be a land of the free and all that ;-) So long as you're not a threat to security I wouldn't worry about it. Fact is that everyone, everywhere, is being monitored on the internet from the moment they connect, in both your neck of the woods and mine - everywhere!" Land of the free? Oh yeah, but that was a long time ago. The line between who is a threat to national security and who isn't is getting thinner every day. I mean, over here they can get access to every library book you ever checked out in the last 5 years if they want to. They'd be scratching their heads over my reading list! Comics, American History, woodworking, books on films and filmmakers as well as animation. Throw in books about Russia during WWII and the French Revolution and I'm sure they'd be reeling! So, are you going to Bryce that bike?

Bryce it Baby... Naw do it in wings or tS3.2 which is FREE too....

tS3.2? Wings I know about, I've just never had the guts to try, but the other...fill me in.

Ganthor, 'bout your library lend's - hahahaaa, yeah scratching their heads is about as far as they'd get on that lot I think.

Bryce the bike?

Why, good sirs, you're looking at it! I mean Ok, I know I haven't got the refraction on the windshield spot-on but blimey - what do you expect, perfection?

Len.
:-D

...dude riding the bike is Mike3 from DAZ!

Oh! Those are renders? Well, that's very well done. Very pretty... So...can we expect to see the wireframes on those anytime soon? Can't wait...

Yeah, 'course they're renders - surely someone recognizes that deep metallic red from the standard Bryce material presets!

Actually, I dread to think how long it would take to model that thing. Still, there was a guy modelled his Suzuki Hyabusa (down to nus'n'bolts) on another forum somewhere - it was incredible modelling/rendering. Can't remember who/where it was though.

Len.
(Damn good though)

BTW, I think by "ts", foleypro was referring to TrueSpace, it's been given away on quite a few coverdiscs over recent times ;-)

Oh...TrueSpace. Yeah...I don't have the..uh, well, you know...for that either. I tried 3D Studio once and it made my nose bleed. Maybe some day...

Illustrator CS2 has a great tool called Live Trace that would do this type of effect. I think CS has it as well. Here's that photo live traced with 64 colors. It vectorizes bitmaps and converts them to vectors with fills.

Here's that same image with 256 colors which is the max it will do.

Here's one that's more closer to what you posted for the movie.

It must be a new feature for CS2, 'cause I've got CS and I can't do that..or at least I don't think I can do that. Nice effect, though.

with inskape, a gnu (read "free") application I could obtain very similiar results converting bitmap pictures into vectorial images. I believe that with professional applications like corel draw there are evem more options obtain exactly what you showed.

Thanks 'Rathe.

That last one sure looks more like it - vectorized as well.

When you do this, do you have any option over creating an outline? It looks very close to the movie in terms of procedure, and I'm wondering if that's what they did, and maybe added the outlines in a seperate pass.

I've been trying to find out if Photoshop/Premiere will allow me to apply a plugin frame-by-frame, but it doesn't look as if it can :-| I can see now, why Rosemaryr suggested DeBabelizer (which can).

How weird is that though, I mean a bundled product, both Adobe - so you'd think they'd allow you to apply Adobe standard plugins in their Premiere prog. I think that's dead weird :-/

I still haven't downloaded Illustrator yet, but I'm curious what the CS stands for, or rather, what it does.

zakalwe, thanks - don't know of that one so I'll check it out. As for CorelDraw, I have it, but it's only version6 - so god knows what they've added to it since then to get the exact result. Again, I'll have to check it out.

Len.
(If I remember correctly, Corel has huge downloads - bleep)