Recently someone who had made a corridor that looked similar to a corridor in some television show was told very forcefully in the merchant's forum and in this forum that they would be in grave violation of the copyright of the show to sell or otherwise distribute the mesh and texture. I was not aware that the scenery in a television show was copyrighted in the same manner as are the images and dialog of a television. Was the issue that the corridor appeared in copyrighted images in the television broadcast and that this corridor mesh and texture could be used to create images "substantially similar" to the images in the broadcast? It was a science fiction show... do you think all the people who got on the case of the artist did so on account of the fact that since the show was not to be named in the mesh package it could not be defined as fan-art? How about in the case of the person making a vehicle prop out of Poser primitives? It was suggested that the primitives, boxes, balls, torus, cone, etc. which were only licensed for personal use by e-Frontiers might be extracted from the final prop by unscrupulous individuals... this made me very concerned since if people were to get a hold of several renders of mine that showed the same character they might be able to extract the texture of the character package I used, they might even be able to ascertain the combination and setting of morphs used to create the character. Very worrying indeed. This whole thing about original figures having to be en-coded to other figures, people not passing on Poser freebies from sites/authors who are long disappeared and which were originally distributed with no relevant re-distribution conditions and no indication of real world authorship... it all has me so confused. I thought there was a consistent standard, some common sense, as concerns the respecting of Intellectual Property rights. People suggest that a rigging similar to V3's can not be used on a figure without the consent of DAZ but then other, or maybe even the same, people suggest that we disregard a trademark simply because it might be expensive to or even arguable to enforce. This is going to really plague me, trying to figure it all out :(

oops! forgive me if somebody already posted this, but I just checked my default poser runtime, and there are 2 poses with "superhero" in the name. (libraries/pose/poser 1-4 poses/comic sets).

"Trademark" means they can sue. "Registered Trademark" means they'll win. Which is it? I strongly suspect that they couldn't register that trademark, despite their claims to it. It's been in common usage for too long. In other words "TM" does not mean they have a case, although they might. It depends on what they can prove in court. "R" means they OWN it, though.

When it comes to lawsuits, though, a company with deep pockets can bankrupt you even if you're in the right. Thomas Edison and George Eastman were prime examples of this. They'd sue anyone who did anything that slightly RESEMBLED their stuff. Didn't matter if they were in the wrong. They'd tie people up in court 'til they went broke.

I wish I could just be swift and make a modest proposal!

"Uber-Hero", "Psycho-Hero", "Scouper-Pooper Hero" Bah ! Man, this entire issue makes me mad and makes me feel like gagging. Good thing I prefer The Darkness and WitchBlade.

Message edited on: 03/27/2006 23:09

Well, DAZ have an issue claiming copyright to joint parameters (or at the very least enforcing them), but that is a different subject and I don't want to bog this one down with the details. The thing with trademarks is that once they become "common terms" they are unenforceable. They MUST chase up infringements to their trademarks for this reason, because if they don't they lose them. The thing with the "superhero" trademark is that they cannot enforce it now - they should have back in '79. Now it is too late. My sons call the Incredibles "superheroes", they also call the ninja turtles the same thing. If Marvel/DC were to try and enforce this - they would lose, bit time. If they attack someone small enough to bankrupt - the PR fallout would bite them hard. If they attack someone large enough to defend themselves, they lose the trademark. Catch-22 --EK

Nobody here is doing this for any of these companies being talked about. I'll wait and see what they do.

Crazy greedy World today.In Germany the Telekom has a trademark on the colour magenta.What else can you trademark?Breathing ,having sex?What about the word "Darling"?Now everytime couples in love call each other "Darling" ,they have to pay.It all reminds me to the movie Total Recall where they sell air for breathing.We are not far away from it.

Attached Link: http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2006/03/superhero-trademark-faq.html

What is the status of xerox? At IBM the staff was not allowed to make a xerox, only photostats. Anyway, why is it that when we talk about copyright it is assumed that we must give the broadest and most sweeping interpretation, to the point of ignoring even the possibility of Free Use provisions but with trademark it is all about whether it can be enforced? Will it be enforced? Why should I have any obligation to obey a legal principal if enforcing it on me is impractical? If you look at threads on issues such as the Eve figure you will seen people on the brink of espousing the position that Eve can't be distributes as it has DAZ-like grouping even if it does predate Vicky 1. Any number of times people have been refused props that other people had downloaded for free even though the read_me says nothing about re-distribution and the original poster of the mesh has long ago disappeared. Like I said, I wish I had it in my power to make a modest proposal. Hmmm. I just hope that people using Poser know when a modification of a figure even for their own use is permitted by the EULA and when it is not. That people realize that a figure they have purchased from DAZ can not be used in a different location from where it was first installed, say if you move to a new town or something for instance. People here are typically very vigilant, it is important though to realize the scope of restrictions and make reasoned decision on how far one should go in observing copyright and EULA restrictions as they were intended.

Well I for one have to agree with Momodot! The point is that if we are going to burn one witch at the stake on this site, we should burn ALL of the witches on this site! If one trademark, copyright, etc. is going to be enforced by the Forum powers-that-be, then they ALL should be enforced with equal fanaticism! mike

Marvel and DC: What happened to you guys? You used to be cool. About twenty years ago. Jeebus. First Dave Sim turns into a loony, now this. Sooper-Hero Mystery Men (Maybe Bob Burden will go crazy with this one?) Masked Heroes Y'can't call them "spandex" anything. That led to trouble for the publisher of "Spandex Tights".... Actually, it seems unlikely that they'll go on a total rampage against fan art. Mind you, I haven't read the articles. Isn't the comics industry still depressed? Maybe this is their plan to try to rescue their industry from the depths into which they've helped plunge it. Or something. Hmm. Thanks for the heads up.

Q: What products does this apply to? A: Publications, but basically comic books and magazines. Also, cardboard stand-up figures, playing cards, paper iron-on transfers, erasers, pencil sharpeners, pencils, notebooks, stamp albums, and costumes. From one of the links. Basically, if I create a pose-set for Poser, and use "Super Hero" as part of the name, according to this I'm not doing it as a publication, and well outside Marvel's and DC's "sphere of interest" so they aren't likely to try to sue me. Now, if I tried to create a comic with those poses, and tried to get it into comic stores with a title of "The Super Hero Squad" then they can stomp on me. At least, that's how I see it.

Marvel and DC attempting to trademark two commonly used words is in no way similar to anything in PoserLand.

To continue to use the term "Super Hero" in an original comic strip/design/story is not hypocritical to defending copyrights. It's ridiculous.

"Recently someone who had made a corridor that looked similar to a corridor in some television show was told very forcefully in the merchant's forum and in this forum that they would be in grave violation of the copyright of the show to sell or otherwise distribute the mesh and texture."

Maybe so, but they can't be in any trouble simply using the word "corridor." Does DAZ have a lock on the name Vicky? I can nail two pieces of wood together and call it "Vicky" and sell it. Just as it should be.

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 00:45

So now superheroes are only Marvel & DC ??? Poor Mighty Mouse :( Poor Atom Ant :( Poor Hong Kong Phooey :( ... etc ... :P

I was just thinking - surely there must appear in hundreds of thousands of texts within published novels, journal articles, and newspaper reports around the world, that use the term "super hero", not to mention film and animated movie scripts (non-Hollywood, non-USA), song lyrics, advertising slogans both spoken and printed, etc etc. If I had to establish the claim that the trade mark is defensible in the first place, hoo-boy !! Big job, baby !

Momodot, I think if you look at the people who are criticising the trademark issue are also those that criticise the overbearinig assumptions of those that think they can "copyright" things such as grouping (which would NEVER hold up in court) and joint parameters (which have no artistic expression component, and would be clasified as fair use under the computer compatibility exceptions in any case). I have never beleived (and never stated) that one should respect frivilous claims be they claims in copyright, trademark, or patents. In the same way I do not believe joint parameter "copyrights" would never stand up in court (and have legal advice to support it), I do not believe Marvel/DC could ever make this stand up either. The issue in question is whether you can afford the court case, not whether it is right or wrong. --EK

Am I the only one who smells a rat here? Momodot is having you on, folks. Swiftly, no, and yes, TSZ was translated long before Superman hit the rags, witness Shaw's use of the term in a title. It would an interesting investigation to see how Germany Aryanism tickled the comic artist's fancy, by the way. OF course, Neitzsche failed to register his coined word (Uebermensch), so he's, if I may say without treading on trademark, "Shit out of luck." Personally, I hope any corporation that expects to be treated like a person gets VD. Remember VD? Something nasty like clap, with yellow gunk in their corporate underwear. Or maybe pox, complete with rotting corporate noses and eventual dementia. The IP laws don't protect individuals, they "protect" corporations after they have ripped the individuals off. Swift was paid 50 pounds for Gulliver's Travels. The marketers made all the profits. I want to trademark "Fuck 'em." I respect the IP of creative people trying to make a living. Corporations are just the predators we try to avoid while we eat their eggs and excreta. M

I can't see it taking. Anyone remember Lucasfilm's attempt to copyright the word "hyperspace"?

The only leverage Marvel and DC have on this is that they did (as I understand it) actually invent the phrase.

I can nail two pieces of wood together and call it "Vicky" and sell it. But would it look as attractive naked in a temple with a sword? bonni

Does anyone smell "locked thread"? I have a feeling it's coming soon... David

Attached Link: LA Times editorial

Nope, it's for real.

"Marvel is claiming exclusive rights to use the term "super hero" as a marketing term for, well, superheroes. The company and its largest competitor, DC Comics, jointly obtained the trademark from the federal Patent and Trademark Office in 1981."

Now that I think of it in The Incredibles Movie, Syndrome referred to the Incredibles as Supers and not Super Heros..Hmmm

I hear the key in the door..... |8^P Marque

As long as people keep it civil and don't start fighting or attacking each other (which hasn't happened yet), the thread won't be locked.

Nope, it's for real. I wasn't referring to the story; I was referring to his attitude. Anybody figured out what the obj file is yet? M

Yes we're being civil, but I've read things in this thread that I haven't seen done here before (namely profanity and some image gestures). I was just surprised that we are getting by with it. And then the posting of the partial lines from some OBJ file. Just seemed like this thread was begging to be locked. LOL David

I think everyone is getting too carried away with copyrights, etc. Like many of you have said, whats next copy righting of common words? Trademarking of smells? We live in a pretty depraved society when the most important thing a major corporation has to do is make sure people don't use the term Super Hero. Next thing you know, the government will pass a law that requires computer manufacturers to put spying devices inside their products.

Attached Link: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000915.html

It's not the engine that makes the sound, it's the pipes. When I first heard my softail I was surprised at the lack of a roar, when I picked up my bike a few days later with different pipes on it the sound I had expected was there. Not as loud as some I've heard but definatly a roar. lol Marque

Heh, since none of us would even be here without it -- clones excepted -- I hereby declare myself the sole trademark/copyright/etcetra/ owner of "sex". ;-)

Attached Link: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000915.html

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And who wants to ear nonsenses about a bunch of crazy people flying and jumping in pajamas or with their underware out of the clothes??? XD

I do damnit!! LOL

Geep, it's for the phrase. Artistic license was used for placement of the mark. Necessary evil to have it, not always easy to find a suitable place for it. David

LOL, Dave and Geep !

" You guys really have me thinking... when was Thus Spake Zarathustra translated into English?"

Just after it stopped being "Also sprach Zarathustra. Ein Buch f Alle und Keinen." maybe? ;)

I think the translation was first published in the 1900's, but I'm not 100% certain.

As far as I can determine the etymology of the word superhero traces back to Superman (the comic book hero) and first came into use around 1938, so it was based on the name of a character stolen from a concept (ermensch) first published in Germany by Hermann Rab (1527), and also used by Herder and Goethe even before Nietzsche supposedly coined it in 1885. It was translated as overman (1895) and beyond-man (1896) before George Bernard Shaw got it right in his play title "Man and Superman" (1903).

Thanks David.

My whole day would have been totally ruined if I didn't have the answer to that.

;=]

@ Dave

P.S. I like to suggest a "suitable place for it" but I don't think the TOS would allow me to tell 'em WHERE to put it !

;=] Edited just for the heck of it. ;=]

Message edited on: 03/28/2006 12:16

How do the people at Image Comics and Dark Horse Comics feel about this? Are they going to stop using the words "super-hero" just because the "big guys" are claiming they own that word? And let's see DC or Marvel sue a fan website over the use of the word "super-hero". They'll kill their fan base faster than a speeding bullet. Who's going to buy comics from a company that sues their own fans? Suing over an authorized use of Superman or Batman or the X-Men is one thing, but suing over the word "super-hero" is another. I think we're all being hosed. This just sounds like a massive April Fools Day prank. --John

LOL! Don't think there's any TOS about saying "where the sun don't shine", Doc. ::runs off to copyright/patent/trademark that phrase::

Can I just say ... "Stick it!" ... with some of Doc's "glue." ;=?

No problem for me with this tracemark stuff, my forte is 'Bare Breasted Babes Bathing in the Buff!' Heh, that rhymes, maybe I should copywrite it! David P. hoadley

Quotes Geep: Can I just say ... "Stick it!" ... with some of Doc's "glue." ;=? *** Fine by me. Might be not so fine with whomever owns that phrase. Maybe you'd better check?

"How do the people at Image Comics and Dark Horse Comics feel about this? Are they going to stop using the words "super-hero" just because the "big guys" are claiming they own that word?" Image is owned by DC, which is itself a subsidiary of Warners. Not sure about Dark Horse but they have tied in with DC in the past.

I don't think it's a prank. I actually believe Marvel and DC are playing this game.

I believe Marvel purchased DC a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the whole story right now. This gives the newer entity full power over the trademark, whereas two companies needed to share the term previously.

So why now, all of a sudden?

Here is an answer to chew on a bit...

I was at the NY Comic Con back in February of this year. It was absolutely huge. It was held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center, where they also hold the NY Auto Show every year. The place was packed, so much so that tickets were actually selling out. We are talking tens of thousands of people here. Imagine a football game crowd all looking at comics.

So, what does this have to do with the topic right? Well, Marvel had a setup at the show. It was about the same size as most other companies' setups, roughly 15x20 feet, in my guesstimation. Okay, so the biggest fish is held in the same size net? Hmmm. Okay, well their station must have been packed, with a constant trailer for X-Men 3 playing, or their artists signing autographs, right? Well...not exactly. The most people I saw there at any point was around 25, maybe 30 people. In contrast, the famous McFarlane was signing autographs, in the basement, and the line was over 2 HOURS long. Hmmm...

Let me tell you, I was a big comic fan as a kid. I loved Captain America, Batman, and Green Lantern. I would read any comic available to me though. At one point, I knew every single current Marvel Universe hero/villian. I had NO IDEA there are literally HUNDREDS of comic companies in business today! The comic con definitely opened my eyes.

I knew there was competition. I was a huge Spawn fan when Image was fledgling. (Speaking of which, when considering the "caring corporations" that are the Marvel properties, let's remember why Image was started. Marvel ripped off it's own artists, such as McFarlane, whom some consider the best artist to ever draw a certain web-slinger. Original ideas became property of Marvel, and were outright taken from artists. With the lack of creative freedom they were willing to use, for fear of losing their IP, they jumped ship, and started a new company, based on the ideals of free thought, and personal ownership. So please don't give me this stuff about "responsible" or "caring" or even ethical company stuff. Marvel has no sense of corporate responsibility, and never has, it's has always been about profit.)

So given that there is so much competition, should Marvel be worried? I mean, household names such as X-Men, or Spider-Man, or The Avengers should be easily more attractive to the consumer than other products, right? I don't think so. Given the attention I saw at the Con for all of the other publishers, and the lack thereof for Marvel, I would say the playing field has been levelled quite significantly.

Marvel is hoping to cut some of the competition out. That can be the only reason they want to play their TM card now. I doubt it will work. Do you blow your nose with Kleenex? Do you have a coke when you are thirsty? Companies have spent billions in selling their trademarks to the public, then when it backfires, and supports the competition, they immediately want to cash in and break the competition. Let Marvel try their hand in court. Yes, they may beat a small publishing house or two. But eventually, those other publishers will start getting together a group and hiring lawyers to defend the group. Don't be surprised if a birdie named McFarlane has a hand in that. Then, Marvel has bad PR, and still nothing to show for it.

OOOOooooo ...... OOOOOoooo... I got the coveted #100 slot. YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;=]