Hi, Been using Poser for well over 3 years (extensively) and I must say that of all the characters I have worked with in the past, non come close to P4 female!! so the the graphic designers... please please consider creating similar outfits for P4F as you guys do for V2 and V3 characters.... I have PhilC's Wardrobe Wizard, but unfortunately, it lacks in quality.. .which is to be expected since it cannot compete with clothes designed for a particular character.... I am checking the Market Place regularly just by off chance!! Cheers Vxg139

There are people who still like and use Posette...but the market isnt there for new stuff for her. Specially with V4 announced to come out some time this year Rawn

I can honestly say you probably won't find any new creations. There are perhaps a few of dozen users that still use possette and not many of them create content. Even peopel that create content for V2 have stopped because there is no market for it. If they do make it, it sells a few copies and then that is it. For people that want to create freebies, they get a lot of "That is great but I haven't used her in years, why cant you make it for V3?" nd they stopped. They stopped years ago.

Probably for the same reason no one makes apps for Windows 95 any more.

....or for Mac os 8.5

:(

ok.. lets consider the dollar amount...What are we talking here? If the cost of creating clothes (similar to V2/V3) are reasonable, then I would be more than happy to cover the cost. I think it might be interesting to gauge opinions as to how much of V3 related items gets sold in this Market Place. I don't quite buy the idea that users are more geared towards V3....Sorry.... Also, I don't think it is a fair to compare P4F to Win 95.... for one, it takes less memory to load and manipulate in Poser than say V2 or V3! Granted, there are more options available for the latter cases. ... so any graphic designer guru out thier to take up the challange and prove the P4F is alive and kicking!! :c))))

Really, the users are more geared toward V3 :) Only recently have I seen anyone doing anything with Possette (or a variation, thereof) and that is just limited to a small number of people (2-3). She was great in her time but al of the reworks, remakes and remapping haven't made much of ayone want to model anything for years. Basically, expected sales for clothes would have to be at least 250 dollars, that isn't even covering the cost of production for a set. You sell 10 copies of the outfit at 10 bucks a piece you aren't even breaking even. I am not a clothes modeller but that is pretty much how I understand it. Many people have made clothes for older models (like M2 and V2) and they said that the sales were pure garbage and they won't mess with 'em again. I can imagine Possette would be even worse.

You've probably looked in Posetteforever.com? That's where new stuff for Posette would most likely show up.

There are a few of us who still make stuff for posette. but you'll usually find our stuff in free stuff sections. Do a few searches for p4 fem here and at 3dcommune and posetteforever you might find more than you thought was out there.... and for free even.

Edited to remove my personal views of the shift from content creators/artists to salespeople / buyers.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 17:48

imagine if you will, yourself a clothes modeler. Now ask yourself this question. Will I make more if I design this outfit for V3 or P4F? If you're looking for freebies, for the most part those offerings would be limited to the number of P4F users that want to share their creations. The number (or lack of) offerings speak for themselves. Your best bet with the P4F market for new P4F clothes is to commission it.

I have no bias one way or the other. In fact, I'm still quite fond of Posette. But honestly, I doubt you'll ever see much in the way of new stuff for her. Apart from the reasons already mentioned, there's one huge reason no one makes outfits for her - there are already thousands of items out there. People have been making P4 fem stuff for nigh on 10 years now. If you can't find what you want in that lot, it will probably never be made. I'd love to buy a few cherished albums on vinyl, but I don't expect the record companies to give me the chance now. mac

Thank you for the heads up Mordikar.. Here is a suggestion.... why don't you guys open up a store at "posetteforever" that specalize in P4F related items..or even something like "poserworld" ... you could call it "P4F world"? I am sure there would be a lot of interest... I for one would take up a lifetime membership is such a site existed...

well Tormie runs posette forever and the TOS is rather strict about linking to and posting NOTHING commercial. They are very set against a market place and i can't say i blame them. But theres still TONS of freebies out there. Another good resource is Google. Try searching for +posette +download .. or get more speific as you need. like +posette +shoes od +posette +boots it's hit and miss but i've found a lot ofgood stuff just doing google searches.

Thanks again for all your helps... truly appreciated... vxg139

Attached Link: http://stylo3d.co.uk/

you may consider to buy a membership at www.poserworld.com. they still have tons of clothing for posetta, many historical costumes, etc. but they stopped creating stuff for the older figures as well.

Even e-frontier has stopped supporting Posette. Most of their clothing is for their own new figures, such as Miki, Terai Yuki, or the Poser 6 people. Even V3 will become obsolete when V4 is released... just like V2 became obsolete when V3 was released. A better comparison would be a software developer who only writes programs for use in 16-bit Windows 98... when 64-bit Windows Vista will be released early next year. --John

All my favorite software runs under 400Mb and was written before 1998 Poser excepted. Best W/P is Write Now, best photo editor is ColorIt!, best paining software is Apprentice, best drawing software is the original Smart-Draw, best OS GUI is WinDOS; this is not nostalgia. These apps are superior to Word Perfect, Photoshop, Painter, illustrator, Windows and Mac OS in design and functionality. Economy of code encourages tight and creative coding, bloat encourages sloppyness, legacy code, intractable bugs, instability, useless features and intellectual inertia. People are suckered into spending more and more on platforms to run huge bloated code that is a mess with seldom any increase in functionality. Poser 6 nodes is the only new functionality of any value that I have encountered in a new program. ArtRage by Ambient design (1.4Mb) is the only quality entirly new app I have seen since 1997... it smashes Painter into the ground. Bloating instead of elegance in coding is a shame, a shame on the coders, it is marketing and business that are responsible... this I know, I have a friend who retired from Adobe before he was 35 on account of the business dept. and the shoddy coding they demanded. I very often use very old versions of software because they are more stable and more functional even when I have foolishly purchased the latest version of a bloatware - or should I say the latest BETA build! The Poser 6 sr-1 was being shipped practically before the Poser 6 release ;) Sr-2 was need right away and then there were the content "updates". Kludgy programing is bad programing. IMHO :) People like stahlratte can shatter V3 with their Posette work!

Jenay, I have a life time membership with Poserworld and whilst they have great props section, to my knowledge, they have not created any clothes for P4 female... Which is kind of shame... I have asked them a couple of times in the past, but NADA so far!! .. and I could not agree MORE with momodot.... Just because something is new and requires tons of RAM to run it, does not mean it is better!! I take reliability and simplicity anyday.... I just wished there were Poser item developers out there that would cater to "if you like... the minority needs"... Cheers vxg139

"to my knowledge, they have not created any clothes for P4 female... Which is kind of shame.." They have 38 outfits (or partial outfits) for the P4 female

Ghostfmacbeth I meant no "New/recent" clothing items... at least no updates for the past 2 years

Oh .. Nope. Cause the figure is dead ;) Sorry ... Say it is only for a freebie, even then you might get 100 downloads, two thanks, three complaints and maybe a cool but could you make it for V3 ... I think that is one reason the freebies kind of died. I don't have access to the survey that ynsaen did but I think Possette was pretty low on the list of used figured. There are a few die hards. Ask how many people use her regularly. Then ask how many people create content (textures, morphs, anything). Try to create a revival by showing that she can shatter V3. I have yet to see it, although stahlratte does do some good things with her (and with V3). I pretty much only create stuff for what I use. I haven't touched the P4 people in years. But you can try to build a resurgance through users rather than trying to guilt/force. Best of luck with her. I just find the figures too limited and difficult to work with so I have stopped using them.

Is there a signup page for the stahlratte beta-testing club? Where is it? ;)

momodot, The image is really cool.... Would it be possible to get a copy of the .cr2 and .obj/.obz (in case the .obj file is different from that of posette) files ? Thank you regards vxg139

Another method to gauge character usage is to look at the Poser gallery here. You'll have to dig through quite a ways back in time to find much usage of the P4 Female. If you're absolutely convinced that P4 clothing will sell well, hire a clothing maker to create an item and grant you full rights to sell it. A lot of content creators have tried to sell stuff for less popular figures and know full well what it means in sales.

rreynolds... you suggestion is certainly a possibility and I am intertaining the idea. However, I use Poser for pleasure (in my spare times) and as such would like to stay away from potentially opening can of worms (contracts, etc.)... I much rather subscribe to a site that creates models for P4F... similar to Poserworld (which I already do)... By the way, the reason for the limited P4F usage.... couldn't be because there are few items created for the character (compared with V2/V3) ... would it?!!? Anyways, I have gotten a lot of wonderful ideas (from this forum members) and for that I am greatful to you all... best wishes vxg139

Well ... will V4 make V3 obsolete? That remains to be seen. I for one have such an investment in V3 that I will be highly resistant to moving to a different figure, and I imagine plenty of others will feel the same.

It isn't that there is nothing for the figures, they have tons of items. It is that they have bending issues, mapping issues, morphing issues, smoothing issues, etc. I see stuff now and I almost immediately think "ugh, possette" ... Better clothes textures and mapping might help but there is only so far you can push the stuff.

vxg139, stahlratte can't make the commitment to distributing the figure given all the issues around today concerning real and bogus copyright and EULA issues. I don't think that any of the pre INJ characters that were sold or distributed prior to V3 would be or could be made available today. It seems that now that there is the position that JPs and other such features can infringe even when developed independently. The problem with Posette is a catch-22, the clothes and textures are six years out of date. Ghastly's P4 clothes are not the same as stuff by wusamah or Mask-da. This is not because Posette, or certainly Eve, can not support high quality clothes, it is because quality and standards have gone up in the intervening years. There is no way we will see new Posette content but the reasons are purely economic. As for the poll, I think it was a great effort but for some reason the proportion of people I know who are using Poser 4 and ProPak is literally ten times what was indicated by the poll. The poll was very much oriented toward merchants, it was clearly represented as a marketing tool for merchants, which almost caused me not to participate since I don't usually participate in commercial polls unless I am directly compensated. Often the people doing the most serious work with Poser are not the people who buy a figure and morphs for $80-$100, buy a temple for $20, buy a texture and dial-spin for $18, buy a pose set for $12, buy lighting for $10, and buy a metal bikini and a sword for $14 for a render. Any vendor in their right mind would be developing their products for the consumer who is doing that. Despite what anyone professes, to the actual market, senseless high resolution is the main selling point of a figure today for most consumers -vertice inflation. As for the inherent deficiencies of the P4; Eve had inconsistent mapping, texturing wasn't well developed in the mid 90's, complex facial expressions had not been developed, the facial resolution was a bit low although pitklad has remedied that, Arduino had not made a genitals and people don't like en-coded figures like Eve, the breasts skull and jawline on Posette can be facety without P6 polygon smoothing, and the Dork default face was ugly. Most of these issues have been remedied in the last couple of years but all too late as the monster resolution figures are on the scene now. I have yet to see someone post a V2Lo next to a V3 in an image big enough to show the resolution difference between them. I seldom see V3 or Miki in a render where the face is even as large as 200x200 pixels, rendered for certain with a 4000x4000 or larger texture. Anyway, I am out of luck, the P4 stuff available in the stores are at the 1999 prices -twice or more the going prices for Millennium 3 stuff due to low volume. The problem is that content for P4 was developed before there was a commercial market, Poser was a freebie DIY culture in those days, the commercial market did not develop until their were consumers who would buy any new figure and any new product with money no object, the recreational as opposed to artist and hobbyist user you might say. I don't recall ever seeing P4 clothes in the RMP only some T-shirt textures and some textures to make the P4 Casual clothes into uniforms. I am not adept at searching, but if anyone knows of nice P4 clothes in the shop would you please point me to them?

In the Rnderosity Marketplace you can go to the Marketplace home, P4 Original Figures and then go back the end. You might be able to find some stuff at BBay. There used to be a place called Greylight that had a bunch the link is here but I am not sure if the downloads are still live. http://www.greylight.com/poser.html Hope that helps

Thanks :) Grey light has some nice pre-transmap hair. RMP gives me figures developed independently under "Orginal Figures" and it gives me Poser 4 application compatable content under "Poser 4 Standard". I haven't located the "P4 Orginal Figure" catagory. A path like "Top / Poser / Poser 4 Standard / Character Sets" leads to V3 characters that have Poser 4 compatable textures. I have not found the Posette and Dork clothes by search on those words or P4 Fem etc., all I turn up is P4 figure compatable hair from the turn of the century and textures for the P4 jeans and polo shirts. I have always figured that original mesh P4 clothing just wasn't in the RMP. Remeber, back when Posette and Dork where still alive most people post-worked hair and clothes on the figures! Clothing just wasn't developed for the most part, and what was developed was freebies which were very nice at the time but out-dated now. Some of the PoserWorld stuff is plain mesh with all the detailing by texture. Personally I wish I was just more skilled at doing second skin. It cracks me up how much great second skin there is for V3 and M3, Clother stuff is amazing, but it is funny that people run a figure so hi-res that they don't have enough memory resources to put any clothes on them. That is why my Miki and Viki and Miki are nudie... I can kiss my CPU goodbye if I tried to load some clothes in the scene!

Here is how I get to see the Poser 4 stuff. MarketPlace Home/ Poser/ Poser 4 Standard/ No. 25 on the list of pages. You can then go backwards and get a few pages of stuff. Not saying what quality is there but there is some meshes. I personally hate second skin stuff but I don't like painted on clothes.

Thanks for the closer point on that stuff :) I am terrible at using search functions. I couldn't successfully Google up a picture of Agent Scully topless if my life depended on it.

Now there is something to look for :) I haven't had much luck with it either though ;)

whoot dances around at everything momodot has been ranting about ... ALL HAIL MOMODOT!!! Fianally some one with a clue! Why load a 90k poly figure to cover the whole figure with another 100k or more worth of polys for clothes, hair, and props !!!! Daz introduced the more polys is better blot-o-matic propoganda and every one and thier dog bought into it. to heck with the fact that vicky 1 looked like a man, vicky 2 wasn't much better and vicky 3 is so polybloated that even trying to clother her will get you arrested for cruelty to a pc! More polys and it's from daz so it's gotta be good .. puke and stahls stuff beats the heck out of anything daz has released. Seriously Zygote started getting a little popular because they were starting to make somewhat descent stuff at the time. They turned into DAZ the merchant mega monster, and then all of a sudden every artist community turned into a "3d content marketplace" everybody had to have thier own store to make a buck and everyone who could halfway work photoshop or a 3d app became a "merchant" as for "i have so much invested in vicky 3 i won't go to vicky4" well guess what. people said the same thing about going from vicki1 to vicki2 and going from vicki2 to vicki3. Daz will stop developing for vicky3 because she'll be "obsolete" Every merchant will start developing fir vicki4 because she's "the next big thing from daz" (big will probably be right. wonder if they can bloat her over 125k pologons). So when the merchants stop developing for v3 you'll "have" to upgrade to v4 or youll just be stuck with the same old stuff.. it's a cycle designed to keep you wasting your money on completely upgrading you current stuff to whatever's "new" i descided to heck with it i'll just learn to make my own stuff then if i can't find what i want i'll make my own. I remember a time when people used to release GOOD stuff into the free stuff sections. like thier best works. And don't get me wrong theres still some good freebies to be had but there are very very few of us who release our best stuff for free, and bother with making rsrs's that looks descent, and mat poses, and uvmap everything. Then again i also remember a time when you'd post an image in a gallery and get 60 - 100 vews and at leas 20 or 30 comments. many of those comments would contain advice and tips not just "Nice pic". The community has lost the "community" it feels more like sellers and buyers with the galleries as an excuse to keep selling and buying. And i'm not just talking about here, i'm talking just about everywhere!