Hello, I am new on this Renderosity community and I feel so honored to move around here.

But I would like to tell something I feel about Poser world in general if you like.

Go to Poser marketplace and explore for instance the millkids section and try to see the clothing. You will find six pages with clothing, both fantasy and casual for Laura and the babies. Absolutelly nothing for Luke, for instance.
(...)

The same repeats when you try to find clothing and characters and hair and matts or morphs for David or Michael. One can find 100 files devoted to female world for 1 file devoted to the male. So, I think in this line, Poser should be called "Barbieworld" or so instead of Poser, don't you think?.

You developers and artists of the human figure on Poser out there, please, could you pay more attention to the male needs on Poser?.

Thanks!. :-)

Message edited on: 04/02/2006 05:22

You developers and artists of the human figure on Poser out there

Hmmmmm wonder what the percentage of these developers are..ya know..the male/ to female ratio...

If I could model clothing, I would...but I cant..so I guess I wont LOL Edit: Blasted Typos!

Message edited on: 04/02/2006 05:54

"Poser should be called "Barbieworld" or so instead of Poser, don't you think?." Heheh...you have to laugh :D I guess Ken's going to remain forever out in the cold around here.

don't know why people bother makin clothes for the figures cos we render em all nekkid anyway......

That could be true, Zollster, but try to do a calendar or a commercial or an historical/street recreation with nude Luke riding a bike, naked Laura playing on a park with mom or a David galaxy fighter wearing just painted underwear into his spaceship... It's simply you can dress and morph and mat Vic3 or Laura or SP3 or even The Girl on 1.000.000 ways, but the same chance doesn't exist for the male companions. Look at the galleries and tell me how many girls people renders and how many boys. As developers don't care creating pieces for males, artists don't care rendering male parts. Of couse I render my characters nude!, who doesn't?, but that's not the point. It's true Poser is a powerful way to develop our fantasies. But hell, if our fantasies and world visions into our minds are just and only girls, this is something to be a little bit worried about...;-) That's just my thought

i never ever look at girl pics(unless they're really good)...it hurts my eyes :)

Well, beyond the male to female ratio of Poser users. It's very much economic. That is to say. MOST guys don't have as much use for male characters. BUT most women DO have a use and need for female character. So it's an imbalanced numbers thing. Guys buy female and gals buy female. It's totally numbers of users. The more female characters the more female clothing and support packs.

ROFL ANOTHER NEWBIE GRIPING ABOUT THE NVITWS SYNDROME. Sorry Josema8 I dont mean to pick on you, its just that at one time or another so many others of us have made the exact same "discovery" and griped the same exact gripe over the years. LOL In fact it even has a name, Nekkid Vicky In Temples With Swords. Or NVITWS for short. See it appears that its this NVITWS that sells, so most of the poser stuff winds up being geared toward that.

Yeah, when I render Mike he's either nekid or I make second skin textures for the guy. Can't model clothes (trying to learn modling a bit).

Reality is a hard thing to accept for what it is sometimes. It so often tends to violate the tenets of social theory.

Might as well complain about the wind blowing -- it'll be just as effective. And just as worthwhile.

Try to find dynamic clothing for M3, or pants/thights/loincloth with a natural bulge shape instead of plain female, or shoes/boots without heels, or a short jacket without size 9 breasts. I mean, the Poser female market is indeed oversaturated, so, isnt this time for the male side?. I wish I could model things, but I cant. I think the render only barbies and underage girls syndrome is not because of artists and creators being female, but because of males who perhaps think paying attention to the male side can make them gay(any psychoanalist reading?...) Meanwhile I am purchasing as much Royloo stuff as I can (not at Renderosity, unfortunately). This is the only creator who offers some fantasy and interesting clothing for Hiro and David (easy adaptable for Luke). The hair, textures and characters, well, I do what I can

"Reality is a hard thing to accept for what it is sometimes. It so often tends to violate the tenets of social theory." A potential customer making a suggestion deserves not to be whacked with a lame aphorism :) It's a reasonable request -- whether it'll get a result around here is another matter... "Meanwhile I am purchasing as much Royloo stuff as I can (not at Renderosity, unfortunately)" Note that last braced comment.

A potential customer making a suggestion deserves not to be whacked with a lame aphorism

Who's doing any whacking? Pointing at a tree, and stating: "that's a tree", isn't a whack. It's an observation. ;)

It's a reasonable request -- whether it'll get a result around here is another matter...

It's a 'request' that's been made before. Sure -- bring on more stuff for Luke & for M3 -- I've got no problems with that at all. The more variety in the Market, the better. Benefits everybody.

But if I were a merchant -- I'd be looking to selling things. And most share that attitude. That's why the Marketplace looks the way that it does. And why it will continue to look the way that it does.

;)

You think it's hard to find clothes for men? try finfing baby clothes. Try finding diapers.

Sexism is most noticeable here, in particular. There are, however, plenty of other sites where it is less prevalent, and there is an assortment of clothing for the males. However, yes, there is a marked lack of clothing for them, and a very strong demand -- particularly for the kids, anime people, David, and the Freak.

"But if I were a merchant -- I'd be looking to selling things. And most share that attitude. That's why the Marketplace looks the way that it does. And why it will continue to look the way that it does." I think you put your finger on it there... I'm not a modeller, but I think merchants who make clothes have to spend a lot of time on an outfit so of course they'll try to make something that will sell and even if people say there's a huge demand for it, I think clothes for females still sell a whole lot better. Someone said that the market is oversaturated with female stuff, well apparently it's not oversaturated enough because it seems it is still what sells the most...

Lucie, if monthly you offer 1.000 oranges and 10 lemons, people will be used for your oranges, will look for your oranges and will buy your oranges and will render your oranges. In the rare case you offer them a lemon, they won't be used to them and you will even sell less lemons...It's oranges that they are waiting for!, and if you try to offer them your lemons, they are not used to them because you had them to build their entire Universe around female stuff. People renders less male characters because there are really less stuff for male Universe. It's a matter of user education and Marketplace global offer, not a matter of what sells more. That sells is a good product, not the fact a product is for males or females. And we are not talking only about clothing. If there is not a good offer for male stuff, the quality is something hard to find and then the oranges and lemons circle closes. The same applies to morphs, characters, hair, complements, textures...

"People renders less male characters because there are really less stuff for male Universe." I disagree with this statement. I think more people - both male and female - like female characters. I don't think changeing the number of available accessories for males would increase the number of males rendered in any dramatic way.

I don't agree with it either, I believe most people just prefer the female body for renders... We don't see an awful lot of nekkid M3 or nekkid David in the galleries and for those you don't need a lot of addons... ;) But even if your statement was right... Merchants don't want to educate people and teach them that they can use lemons instead of oranges, they want sales now, not in I don't know how many months, when people would maybe start appreciating products for male figures a little more... How many products for males would they have to make before people start changing their vues and go for the lemons instead and why would they gamble with this when they can make clothes for V3 and get sales instantly? I understand it's frustrating for those who use male figures in their renders, but I also understand merchants preffering to work 3 months on something for V3 and gets 10 times more sales then they would if they had worked 3 months on an outfit for M3... :unsure:

People renders less male characters because there are really less stuff for male Universe. i really don't think so. if you look at the galleries carefully, you will find that even women render a lot more nude women than nude men, and as lucie said, you don't need any clothes to render nudes. furthermore, whenever i've heard human representational art discussed elsewhere it turns out that, sexual fantasies aside and from a purely aesthetical point of view, people vastly prefer the female form to the male one. i don't share that view, and i wonder how much of it is cultural, but there it is. certain very popular subgenres here have no male component at all -- you hardly ever see any male fairies, for example. no, i'm afraid in this case people prefer oranges over apples, which is too bad for those of us who like more choice of apples. we all just have to learn modelling. :)

So, we are finally agreeing THERE IS really sexism on this marketplace and site in general. No matter the reason, that sexism, understood as a big preference for female values against male, exists. Yep, that's sexism. It's that damn stupid culture!?. If a woman only renders women, nude (!!!) or clothed and only creates stuff for women, she is a good woman who cares feminity, she has the right to recreate en enjoy the exploration of her own body and feelings, dreams and thoughts. Oh, feminity!...what a superb thing!... But well, if a man only renders men or male characters, nude or clothed and creates stuff for males, he is not a good man who cares... etc etc, he is simply a gay or a male chauvinist, so idiot he looks for male while female blossoms are sooo nice. Oh, masculinity, what a superb thing! (Can ear the voices shouting faggot and chauvinist to you?...). What is wrong with our twisted feelings that we even translate them to fantasy world?... I like female too, don't be wrong, but World is 50% male and 50% female, why the hell the male 50% is buried under a lack of attention even on render programs?. I have 500.000 dresses and fairy petit chou-chou for Laura and Vicky, now I want some clothing and stuff for Luke, for David and for M3. I want male faeries. And I will continue asking for Luke's clothing that doesn't look like a cardboard tanker or a pair of pants for David with a natural "I have penis and I have butt" sewing at last. Or a texture without breasts and glossy lips or a male hairstyle. If merchants want to listen, I will try. If not, well, can anybody tell me the tools I will need to taylor and morph my stuff?...;-)

"It's that damn stupid culture!?" No. It's not culture. It's biology.

Quote - ""It's that damn stupid culture!?" No. It's not culture. It's biology."

It's mainly culture, and part biology. If it's only biology, why don't women mainly render and care males instead of females?... I would say simply women are more well-balanced than men are. Look backwards, at ancient Greece, where men body and men stuff was considered equal and even more cared than the female. Biology is mainly conditioned by mind and the doors and windows we put in our heads. It's culture. But this is mainly a question of merchants don't offering products for the male characters on Poser...;-)

I know culture environment affects us. However Greece seems to be the exception rather than the norm. There are a bunch of things that may be factors and hopefully I can get back to this later. I think there's more involved than mere sexual attraction, for example.