Well, I'm alittle calmer now. LOL "I'm so sad that people are mad at me. sigh. I think the Warez people have won for now. I give up. I was wrong. They have rights too and unless there is concrete proof provided to enveryone reading this I have no right to accuse them. They are people to and Warez is too big for one person to stop. And they might sue me so I should be careful. And I should be ashamed for my actions." LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. NOT. LOL. Go ahead sue me. please. Feel free. Go for it. Anytime. I'm home tomorrow. Please sue me. please. I would love to have my lawyers take ya apart in court. Don't let them win. Demand action. They want you to give up. They want to scare and intimmidate you but they will never dare set foot in court I assure you. The information regarding Brenda was posted by Laura when she created the download location. Brenda was then quick to give me Laura's info. They retted each other out. Laura did email me tonight offering to finally give me the rest of the info if I called her. When I did she started screaming. She tricked me into calling her. One point for Laura. My attorney has assured me that I am at no risk, but thankyou for the concern. My case against these two will be fairly easy, though slow I am sure. To everyone in the community vicimized by these two and the others: As you can see it is dangerous to try to stop these people. They will insult you and accuse you of anything to stop you from trying to expose them all. And their supported and "clients" will surge forward to tell you you are over reacting and being petty. These are choppy waters to be sure. People have asked me for major discounts and them publically attacked my products and me when I don't give in. The make up new usernames and post their disapproval to make themselves look like victims. They are very very crafty. I know so many of you and we have learned to make products together sharing info and ideas. But now we are no longer just members. We are now targets, prey for them. To them we are now "the establishment", "the man", whatever. They see themselves as Robinhood and wee are the greedy folk in the castles. And we are to be taught a lesson by them for daring to not share what they think is theirs by right. Everyone has shared a video game here(figuratively), a software disk there, so people feel guity or hestitant in postion disapproval about Warez. And many people don't want to hear about it. I think all the vendors of all stores need to band together to fight these people as a group. To Renderosity administrators: What is your official view on the large volume of your vendor's products being Warez'd. I contacted you about my textures being used in the store. You told me to resolve it myself. I have helped shut down a dozen site with you Vendor's merchandise?Have you told them how bad things are?

Well, I'm alittle calmer now. LOL "I'm so sad that people are mad at me. sigh. I think the Warez people have won for now. I give up. I was wrong. They have rights too and unless there is concrete proof provided to enveryone reading this I have no right to accuse them. They are people to and Warez is too big for one person to stop. And they might sue me so I should be careful. And I should be ashamed for my actions." LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. NOT. LOL. Go ahead sue me. please. Feel free. Go for it. Anytime. I'm home tomorrow. Please sue me. please. I would love to have my lawyers take ya apart in court. Don't let them win. Demand action. They want you to give up. They want to scare and intimmidate you but they will never dare set foot in court I assure you. The information regarding Brenda was posted by Laura when she created the download location. Brenda was then quick to give me Laura's info. They retted each other out. Laura did email me tonight offering to finally give me the rest of the info if I called her. When I did she started screaming. She tricked me into calling her. One point for Laura. My attorney has assured me that I am at no risk, but thankyou for the concern. My case against these two will be fairly easy, though slow I am sure. To everyone in the community vicimized by these two and the others: As you can see it is dangerous to try to stop these people. They will insult you and accuse you of anything to stop you from trying to expose them all. And their supported and "clients" will surge forward to tell you you are over reacting and being petty. These are choppy waters to be sure. People have asked me for major discounts and them publically attacked my products and me when I don't give in. The make up new usernames and post their disapproval to make themselves look like victims. They are very very crafty. I know so many of you and we have learned to make products together sharing info and ideas. But now we are no longer just members. We are now targets, prey for them. To them we are now "the establishment", "the man", whatever. They see themselves as Robinhood and wee are the greedy folk in the castles. And we are to be taught a lesson by them for daring to not share what they think is theirs by right. Everyone has shared a video game here(figuratively), a software disk there, so people feel guity or hestitant in postion disapproval about Warez. And many people don't want to hear about it. I think all the vendors of all stores need to band together to fight these people as a group. To Renderosity administrators: What is your official view on the large volume of your vendor's products being Warez'd. I contacted you about my textures being used in the store. You told me to resolve it myself. I have helped shut down a dozen site with you Vendor's merchandise?Have you told them how bad things are?

I never knew how deep warez went with Poser stuff. I saw a few sites with a few things, but never saw or heard of the type of "download club" that you have described. I think anyone that has anything for sale should be worried to death about this problem. The vendors, the stores, and the software manufacturers should find a way to band together to route out the warez and do what is needed to shut them down. People that are so worried about the consequences after being caught, should have thought of that before participating in a federal offense.

Yes, everyone should be worried. Very worried. It is very serious if the bandwidth reports are accurate. It just amazes me that you can tell people that you had a phone conversation with a thief and they still don't believe you. Why would I lie? I mean it's me. I'm not a bad guy. I truly beleive many people's sales here in the market place might be less than what they should be because of PoserWarez. There are alot of great products and people say things are slow. WHY? It's warez. Most of the Warez people are members here and try to quiet the loud ones like me. I mean, I always thought Laura was a nice person. Now she is trying to say I want to kill her baby. Just because I threatened to sue her. Isn't that crazy. In a way it scares me too, because then who knows what she will do or say. I mean, it's kinda hard to top that. She's actually accusing me of wanting her baby dead. Now there is someone with some ethical issues. This is why I have to be public about this. What if something happened to her baby now. See my point. Just so nutz. I miss the fun we all used to have. I remember when I used to make free stuff for the Prop's Guild, noone ever downloaded them. Now the $ stuff is like "Warez" steak. Weird. These people know us. We are not faceless to them. Why would they do this to ALL of us, not just me. I'll go looking for that book tomorrow: "The Politically Correct Way To STop An Internt Pirate" If anyone knows where I can read it let me know. Or Mabey this one: "How To Get Flamed ON-LIne:Ten Easy Steps" by Anton Kisiel 1) Post about Warez 2) Tell someone you don't like them 3) Pretend nothing scares you 4) Tell the truth (favorite game show) 5) Mention money at the PFO That last one is just a joke. Actually they all are. I think.

I couldn't think of five more.

I miss the fun, too. I found the forums about a year and a half ago. Then, everyone would pretty much bend over backwards to help each other. There is still a lot of help now, but it's different. I think now that Poser is being accepted as a "real" program by a lot of professionals and with the give away of P3 on a magazine, there are so many more users and it's not a "family" anymore.

Well, I've used your Morph Shoes from propsguild & thanks, the're great. I think it's good to have these discussions once in awhile. Too many people see the "net" as a faceless free-for-all for anybody to use/abuse as they see fit. Look at all the bruhawhaw when people found out you could no longer "steel" songs from the net, get a life! Actions have a consequence & if you steel & are caught then be prepared to take your medicine.

I am pleased to hear that your attorney told you that you were at no risk. I hope you didn't think I was flaming you...I only wanted you to be aware of the risk. I never got a chance to experience the family thing. I am new to Poser. It's a shame because when I was referred to this forum and others, I was told it was such a great place to learn and make friends. Don't get me wrong, I am learning. Just by reading all the threads. But I am alarmed to see for every person helping someone, there is another insulting someone, as well as too many fights. It's really a shame.:( Okay...I won't hijack your thread anymore. Just wanted to comment and make sure what I said previously was clear. sigh

Anton: You, Sir, are the wind beneath my wings. I'd love to share my personal feelings and recount some tales. However, since I work for Curious Labs and have been very active on the anti-piracy efforts, I need to retrain myself. I too have been threatened with "I know your address and gave it to the group and can't say what will happen". I have also been chewed out by people who stole from us, etc. etc. PoserWarez is a large problem, but, I think, substantially less now that it has been in the past thanks to the efforts and assistance of many memebrs of the Poser community, for which everyone at Curious Labs is eternally grateful. Please feel free to report all warez you find to me at anthony@curiouslabs.com. If I find any props/models/textures/etc. and can identify an owner, I will be pleased to contact that person. Anthony Hernandez Curious Labs

Thanks Anton for having the guts to deal with these weasel cockroaches. I think ways are available to locate these people and MANY major software companies are now banding together to create their own "Strike Force" of private investigators and attorneys, that will deal with these scum-balls. They have to be caught, as they will destroy the livelyhoods of many honest and hard-working modelers and software programmers. Keep going Anton, you are a really fine person to seek fairness and justice when so many other whinning low-lifes just want everyone at Renderosity to capitulate to this growing Organized Crime (which it is)...

Hi Folks! Nail the creeps, Anton. Just be sure to do it in a way that doesn't offer them any loopholes. Peter (Dr Zik)

Well, I AM going to hijack this thread just for a moment. I WAS here when it was a community--and it was fun. I got help from Anton, Steve, Rena, Jeff, Allie, many, many more that I know I haven't mentioned (but I still thank you S). But more than that, we all enjoyed being here and sharing our images, our frustrations and more. Anton's free stuff from Propsguild was used in a lot of my images--and still is. And I've had the delight to see him go on to be superb at what he does--as I've seen others. Still, I have to say, I continue to feel a sense of community here or I wouldn't keep coming back. I've been stymied in creating images for awhile because of a personal situation, but I've kept my hand in by trying to help folks, create textures for use by others and just generally be supportive. I am angry about the warez but don't want the community to be overwhelmed and back away from sharing here. And--I want us to continue to be welcoming and helpful to new folks. I've made lots of friends here--meaning the general Poser/Bryce community. I've cried for friends with sorrow and problems and rejoiced with their successes and joys. I hope this can continue. I'm gone for a week for business now. HOpe this settles a bit by the time I come back. You're still a good guy in my book Anton S. Diane

Anton, your apology is Not accepted because one was not needed. Politically correct hand slapping and pansey tiptoeing concerning your livelihood is WRONG! Were I in your shoes I would make sure those persons were sorry they even heard the word WAREZ. Hell hath no fury like just anger.

I agree with Doom Dancer here Anton. There was a good reason to post at least their handles. After all there are many in this group who were their victims as well. How would any other artists know that if they don't have the facts? Maybe not personal information, but at least knowing about their little group and the artists they were victimizing. It also helps your case to have other artists know, because then the FBI can complete a full investigation and press enough charges against these women to make a point. As for the claims that you could be harming her child, well, as a woman and a mother I say "don't put your self in that position in the first place!" If she wasn't committing a crime than there wouldn't be a problem would there?

"I do not see anything wrong with a group of people buying models from daz and the renderosity store and sharing that amongst themselves" **** nothing wrong with it?....Really? How about the fact that its ilegal?

Hi Folks! Hankey, the ReadMe files that come along with practically every item for sale or free download here and at DAZ, etc. EXPLICITLY PROHIBITS the redistribution of those items individually or as part of a collection. That's one of the reasons why artists incluse the ReadMe documents. I would suggest you go back and check those files before you get YOURSELF into trouble. This is not a threat; just some serious advice you should listen to. Peter (Dr Zik)

nuff said

Anton - This one made rol on the floor laughing...Its so true. Mention Money at the PFO. I determined long ago that they seem to dislike making money. Never could understand that. (grin). Clint

I checked the legalities of what Anton did as well, and dont worry Anton, Barry does this everyday for a living...You've done nothing wrong... Brenda's information was posted with the warez, making it perfectlly legal to post it any where else on the web, Laura's information was posted elsewhere on the web as well, so by him posting it here he did nothing out of the way... He, You, or I could call these women everyday if we wanted to, we could even go and visit them if we chose to, its not illegal until they get a restraining order, and in order to do that they would have to go to court, do you really think they want to stand in front of a judge and say "soandso is picking on me because I'm a software pirate make them stop please!"...No, they wont be asking for help in court...They'll want to stay as far away from that as possible... It's about time some one scared the bejeezus out of the warez crowd, it is organized crime, it is a federal offense, it is WRONG!...What they've done to us is about the same as hacking into payroll office where you work and taking 50% of your pay check to deposit in thier account...would you stand still and let it happen?

Poser materials are not necessities of life for these bits of excrement on legs who deal in their theft and illegal redistribution. They are merely luxury or amusement items. These anthropoid apes are not Jean Valjean, no matter how much they may beat their sunken chests and bleat to the contrary. They are Monsier and Madame Thenardier, through and through, and should be treated as such. Those who attempt to rationalize their acts are in the same category. Get a real job and you'll be able to afford these toys. Or even better--MAKE the damned things yourself. I wanted a good rapier model and couldn't find a free one. I hadn't the money to bother looking for one for sale. So I learned 3d modeling from scratch and MADE one. My wife wants a texture that doesn't exist? She MAKES one. Take the time to learn to make your own if you haven't the money to buy another's.

Maybe I'm getting to be an old fart but does anyone notice that these are two WOMEN stealing stuff? Have women truly become equeal to men? Denise Rich bribes the president, Hilary takes bribes from Hasidic(sp?) Jews. Now female crackers steal poser software, props, characters etc.. and put them on warez sites plus become verbally abusive over the phone and email. What happened to moral superiority, more compassion, if they were in charge there'd be no more war? I don't expect women to be fairies or nymphs or angels but becoming men with boobs is sad. Maybe it shouldn't shock me that women are doing this, they've managed to do everything else men have done (mass murder, kill children etc) thereby proving they ARE equal to us. The reason I say these things is Anton is treading on thin ice if its women he is dealing with. They can claim harrasment or even threats of rape etc. Since there is the "Reasonable Woman's" law out there, their word is taken over Anton's in court. Maybe that's just paranoia. The theft thing doesn't bug me that much. My stuff gets stolen all the time, even by foriegn groups that I can't touch with a ten foot pole. What bugs me is its women doing this particular act. I just thought they were better than that.

#15 you have been named as a perp. The nature of your comments makes those charges seem valid. The whole purpose is to identify those amoung us who are thieves, traitors and parasites. To shun them and deny them salt, fire, water and bread. The user names should be broadcast and maybe wanted posters on the side. I understand Anton wanting to hang the bodies from poles at the city gate as a warning to other brigands. As long as he is absolutely sure of his data, he should go for the throat. But he needs to be sure of his data.

Mr Hankey is one of this group. He was mentioned by name by Brenda when we spoke. Laura also mentioned him. See, there he is. We have and can obtain more than enough screen caps & html logs from warez boards along with his archives of illegal models that he was putting out for public distribution.

Mr. Hankey is also known as "daviestof " on Renderosity and as "zx20" on the warez boards. These people should be banned from Renderosity as that they violate everything legal this community stands for. Not to mention, I am sure the vendor's in the marketplace don't appreciate these people being allowed to be members.

God damnit! Now I am getting pissed off. Don't you people have anything better to do than steal?? This is ridiculous! Didn't your parents teach you any morals whatsoever?? Get off the god damned board. Pay money for something like the rest of us! I am new to this...and I happen to be an HONEST person. I would like to be able to buy models and download free things. But thanks to immoral asses like you and your pirate friends...many artists may well pull their stuff off the net just to keep from being victimized and having their hard work stolen. YES...Mr. Hankey...there is a problem with sharing a liscensed product with people who have not purchased it. It's illegal. That should be enough. Why the hell should anyone have to explain that to you? I was raised knowing that "illegal" means YOU DON'T DO IT!! Why weren't you? Or were you and you just don't give a shit? That's it...I am not going to get into an arguement. But I am still angry about PoserWorld and FairyWoods being closed because of people not turning off their accelorators. I never had a chance to even see the damn site!! Assholes. I hope Anton and the rest sue your asses for everything you are worth (though with thieves that usually ain't much.) You little ridiculous friend claiming that her child was threatened obviously needs some sort of psychological help and hopefully some jail time. I doubt any of you will go to jail....which only serves to make me angrier. What goes around comes around...I will just have to settle with my belief in karma...you'll get yours in the end. Hopefully by a big, hairy man named Buck.

Oh yes...and as a woman I am not surprised that they are women. Sorry....but women can not only be immoral, but they can be more deceitful than a man ever thought about being. What bothers me is that this woman would use her child as a pawn to try and get herself out of trouble. Isn't it nice to know what kind of moral fiber that kid will have? Sick...just sick. As a mother I find that disgusting.

Now look what you did Hankey (or is that TP??) You went and got nikita riled.... geesh!

LOL @ LadySilverMage. I guess I got a wee bit angry...didn't I? Actually I still am. I am about to go start searching for warez sites....just so I can report them.:-P

Hey Nikitacreed, you go girl :) Nice to hear a female reply on this. Like I said I don't expect women to be saints or anything but it makes it harder for women in general to gain credibility when crap like this pours down the hill at them. Seriously, I'm now taking into account that hackers and crackers can be women. Before I just thought they were guys who live in their parents' basement. Now I'm not so ready to dismiss the idea that anybody can do this. That's 50% more of the population I gotta watch out for now.

I am sure that Anton did the right thing. He is a great artist and he has the right to defend his products like all other artists on this site and on other sites. There are Warez here and it is a good thing that people hightlight their name. A person line Hankey should be banned or look very closely at his actions. This is a irresponsible statement and only add fire to this post. I bought few thousands dollars in models, textures, props, etc... and I nver gave or exchange none of them even the free one. This is my rule and this is the rule of this community. For me this site is still a community and I come back every day and I still learn a lot from here. It is part of the community to have warez so this is part of the community to discuss this subject. If no one do then it will grow and every one will suffer from it. Excellent work Anton. Keep going, I am on your side. Claude

Hi Folks! Hanky's self-incriminating statement reflects an ethical blind spot that has become pervasive in modern society, and (sadly), particularly among young people. It is the philosophy that "nothing is wrong until someone gets angry or I get caught--and if I say I'm sorry, then everything is allright." As a teacher, I see it a lot. My fear is that as a response, the penalties for even minor illegal activity will gradually become more repressive. Peter (Dr Zik)