Passport definitely needs a rethink. It's grossly overpriced for the limited benefits.

so let me see if i got all this, you were ALL excited about new figures for passport members, THEN the new figures have no elbows and kind of suck, ARE you all surprised?? Koji was James with an Asian face, came with no morphs, no nothing. And what do you get for joining and being a passport member? Seems to me, many of you need to hang onto your money, instead of throwing it at any and all POSER PEOPLE creators.
James is a pretty cool figure, why don't they work on what they already have, Oh NO let's make a new James and a black james. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! and because it's free, you really can't complain
Keep your money in your pocket , when sales start falling,  I guarantee you, you will see exciting awesome figures popping up, money talks.
Lastly CP SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD AND/OR BEEN A MEMBERSHIP SITE, it was supposed to be for anyone that purchased poser, another reason, i don't bother with them, just another scam for a dollar.

'At least there is an update for the EF characters that is being released.  How long have we been waiting for M4/V4?'

Has it ever occurred to you that M4/V4 might actually work properly when they come out? Getting stuff in a hurry isn't much use if it needs to be fixed later.

mac

Quote - With out those sales would these forums be what it is today?

OK, so let me get this right. You pay for a Program (Poser). You pay good money for a program that has the slowest render engine on the market. Then you decide to go to the forums at CP and see what other Poser users are discussing. You find you have to PAY more to acces the Poser forum. Wasn't buying Poser enough. Evidently not. That sure seems like a scam to me and people are falling for it. I think I'm level headed enough and in touch with reality enough to see what is a scam and what isn't. I don't know of anywhere else you have to pay to access the Poser forums.

Quote - I don't know of anywhere else you have to pay to access the Poser forums.

Well, you get access to an exclusive PC forum with your membership, and ditto elsewhere. But your point is well-taken. Many of us protested at CP that it was inappropriate to put the Poser forum itself  inside the paid area, and we were politely ignored. One admin argued that other programs (3DSMax, I think) had paid tech support forums. None of us was impolite enough to say, "Well, Poser is no 3DSMax!"

The benefits of CP's Passport are discounts and freebies, not just access to the forums, which are pretty lame except as a place to chat and read ads. Rumor has it that threads embarrassing to the marketing department have disappeared occasionally. It's no different from any other place -- read DAZ PC -- that exists primarily to market its own brand and offers discounts for membership. Judged by that standard, the return on the dollar is slimmer than PC, if you actually have a use for the silly stuff DAZ specializes in.

The only membership I've NEVER regretted is PoserWorld, and I expect it will be the only membership I have, come re-up time at CP.

Quote - so let me see if i got all this, you were ALL excited about new figures for passport members,...

Heh well not ALL ... I for one didn't even know about these new "cool" updates. Probably becasue I'm perfectly happy with m2/m3 v2/v3 d/s3. I must say I have found the CP Passport enthusiasm a bit strange. PoserWorld and Plat Club works for me, but I've never found Passport to be appealing to me personally.

I've no great desire for M4/V4, the current figures work well enough for me.

And what IS the point of exclusive forums for members? The Poser forum here takes up enough of my time as it is. Why should I want another one? That I have to pay to access?

You aren't missing too much anyway... If the CP forums were open to the public then everyone could enjoy choice quotes like this from Krazik (the programmer / web guy)... Straight from the CP Passport forums: "78% of cp visitors are on broadband, and only 9% on dialup." Hmmm...9% certainly sounds small, but it could be as many as 9,000 or more customers assuming their customer base is at least 100,000. Eh...who needs 'em, right? :blink: "We do track sales and user visits. Both are way up w/ the new site. Seems -most- do like the new site." Even though the G2 figures were released at the same as the new site design. Nice ego boost there. :lol: "Every user would give a different answer even the 4 of you griping in here couldn't agree on what cp should look like." This is what happened when asked why customers (or at least Passport members) weren't allowed any input into the new site design before it went live. :huh: "Asking for a fix and in the same breath calling us aholes for doing it to begin with is a gripe or just calling us names because you don't agree is."** Pleasant isn't he especially since I couldn't find evidence to back up his alleged verbal abuse. Regardless, I still gave him some praise anyway because he was probably tired, had good intention(s) and all the fixes will come soon enough. Krazik has since been quick to implement suggestions and address concerns. I'm especially happy that the "intro" page was completely removed. It's very nice to see what was accomplished in less than a day!

Don't know where this Free stuff keeps coming from. The figures are replacements for the broken ones, that I would have prefered to have had fixed in the first place. the one figure was part of the paying membership, the rest are for anyone who bought P6 and or the Miki/Koji figures. Nothing has really been givin free. These are also just preview versions, not the full versions. So with a little luck the full versions will be better than what we have seen so far.

I don't like the fact that G2 figures have all the muscle tone as default, with no proper morphs, they are very limited for any normal use. 

The site format is poorly thought out, but that seems to be the "in" thing this year.

I will have to see what improvements CP makes before I renew. So far I can sum up the whole new look and figures in one phrase.

SNAFU!

Quote - Don't know where this Free stuff keeps coming from. Nothing has really been given free.

AFAIK... G2 James is "free" to all P6 owners but Passport members get them before everyone else. G2 Koji is "free" to all Koji owners but but Passport members get them before everyone else. Kelvin the newest G2 male figure (never before released and not part of P6) will be "free" to Passport members and sold to everyone else. So that would be my best guess. :biggrin:

They are not free, we paid for them. They are supose to be the fix for the old figure. Kelvin is not free. He is part of the paid membership. So nothing has really been given for free. Passport members get the beta versions first before the full release. "Paid" Membership.

The way I see it, EF / CP could have certainly decided to just charge everyone for all the updates regardless of any imagined or real entitlements since we don't have the final say. So the fact that we're getting these without paying extra (such as instead having to buy Poser 7) to get these updates is why I'd consider them it to be free. It might be sad, but there are plenty of other software companies that wouldn't be as "nice". Additionally, since joining the passport program the price paid for passport membership has since been recovered (as far as I'm concerned) and anything beyond that I am going I'm going to consider to be "free", a "gift" and/or "extra value" IMHO. YMMV. I may be their only customer that doesn't say "You owe me!" :lol:

Most companies don't charge you for fixing broken merchandise and you can't get more broken than what the G1 figures are. Don't forget Koji owners bought because they were told there would be face room usage. So what you are saying is that they are not owed that even though they paid for it?

I would still rather have fixed G1 figures than the new ones. Yes, I do think they owe us that much.

Quote - So what you are saying is that they are not owed that even though they paid for it?

I would still rather have fixed G1 figures than the new ones. Yes, I do think they owe us that much.

No, I'm saying that I feel that I've received more than I paid for (potentially one of the few) and so I'm hoping for more but not feeling owed it.

I see what your saying.

It would be a boring world if everyone thought the same. ( tied to get a smilie but the page won't load.)

I'd say that the "diversity" of thought makes a world of difference, wouldn't you ? :lol:

Quote - The way I see it, EF / CP could have certainly decided to just charge everyone for all the updates regardless of any imagined or real entitlements since we don't have the final say. So the fact that we're getting these without paying extra (such as instead having to buy Poser 7) to get these updates is why I'd consider them it to be free. It might be sad, but there are plenty of other software companies that wouldn't be as "nice".

All of "evil"  DAZ's updates have been free.  And that's not even counting the free
figures they are now giving away such as Victoria 3.0, which even has the updates
included in the newest FREE download.

shrug

In my personal stylebook: e-frontier provides the software, and DAZ provides around 90% of the basic models that I use far more often than any others.  BTW - the reverse isn't true...........

My own idealized scenario would consist of Poser 7 being released with the DAZ figures -- M4/V4, YT's, & Milkids -- as the default program-loaded figures.

I know, I know......I have a truly warped sense of humor.  But it'd be really, really nice, wouldn't it.........?

:b_grin:

Quote - > Quote - So what you are saying is that they are not owed that even though they paid for it?

I would still rather have fixed G1 figures than the new ones. Yes, I do think they owe us that much.

No, I'm saying that I feel that I've received more than I paid for (potentially one of the few) and so I'm hoping for more but not feeling owed it.

That may be true regarding Kelvin and his "Freeness" in terms of Passport but it just isn't true about James and Koji. What get's me is that these G2 "Fixes" are more broken than the originals! (Can you say no elbows when bent and wavy back shoulder muscles?)

"My own idealized scenario would consist of Poser 7 being released with the DAZ figures -- M4/V4, YT's, & Milkids -- as the default program-loaded figures."

Right on.

That has got to be the absolute WORST idea I've ever heard! Then we'd have half the available figures we have now! If there had only ever been DAZ figures that would mean we wouldn't have even had kids for the first few years and no baby til the MilBaby came around or the Cubed kids, oh wait! They were based on the P4 baby. We wouldn't have them at all!

Nobody said anything about, "only ever been Daz figures." Just give some quality figures in default Poser7.

From what I see going on now with ef figures that's not going to be the case. Even you stated that the new figure are more broken than the originals. Unfortunately, that is most likely what you will get in P7.

Don't get me wrong on figure diversity, I'm all for it. The more the better, I collect them all, well most of them. You would think ef would get someone that knows what they are doing or even pay Daz to fix them or even learn from the last failed attempt. OK, so the last 3 options are unrealistic.

I haven't used Jessie on one render so far but I have used James. I use James a lot with V3. I don't agree with some of daz's themes I think they are just a tad childish at times but I must admit I have always been a daz person as far as characters are concerned.

In all honesty I was seriouly considering purchasing Miki until I read more about her and some of her issues and I really don't want to purchase a figure just to get a new and improved version if in fact it will be new and improved. I have never been one to jump on the band wagon when something new come out. I used poser 4 for a long time passing by P5 when it came out and here in the past 2 months I broke down and upgraded to P6 because of the fear that items for P4 would no longer be supported. I admit I wish I had stayed with P4 as a matter of fact I find myself using the P4 renderer much more. The firefly renderer is great for one major image but not when you do a set  of scenes. I put together story boards and some of them contain over 100 images and I can't wait 7-10 hours for one image to be completed.

There is no quailty in a project when it is rushed dispite what the corporate world would have you believe. I see all this talk about wanting poser 7 that there are some that can't wait for poser 7.  I can wait and I'd rather wait or else the same thing is going to happen with P7 as did P5 and 6 a rush job that lacks in quality. So M4/V4 have yet to come to pass a good thing in ny book.

Too many companies today are in a rush to release products because their customer base is too much into instant gratification and these companies don’t want to lose potential profits. However, in rushing inferior products to market ends up in the corporation losing more money in the end with rework, retesting, repackaging and trying to regain customer trust. It is shoddy workmanship and poor management that finds many a company in the red or bought out by a competitor.

 Wal-mart = another spike in the shashaujian or "assassin's mace" for China.

Cheers,

Micheál

I agree on the figure variety point -- the more the merrier.  Competition benefits everybody.  But I'd still like to see the DAZ "family" as the default figures.  That would benefit everybody, too.  Greatly.

As matters stand now, I rarely use any of the default P6 figures.  Other than an occasional use for James: on those extremely rare occasions when I want an alternative male figure for some purpose.  But seeing as how I use V3 around 80% of the time -- and M3 most of the time after that -- the default P6 group are what I refer to as "Blue Moon models".  In other words, I tend to ignore them.  I've found that all blue moon models have their partisans within the Poser community -- but they are still just blue moon models.  Also-rans: without a whole lot of outside support.  Although there is some.

James is a pretty good model, though.  I'll grant that much.  Too bad that the same can't be said for Jessi.  And as for the rest of the default P6 group -- I think that I've used Kate maybe one time since I've had P6.  And that was for trying something else out.  The others I've never even loaded.

BTW -- if someone actually DID manage to come up with a truly 'revolutionary' new figure: then all bets would be off.  But I've yet to see it happen.

@ Sealtm2 --Here,here!

Do it right the first time and it doesn't need repairs when just bought! 

 I'll wait for Poser 7.  P4=Metacreations.........P5=Curious Labs...........P6=E-frontier

P7=......Walmart? :lol:   <Couldn't pass that one by!  Sorry

If Wal-Mart did purchase Poser, then the program would suddenly cost half to a third of what it does now......and it's already a huge bargin, IMO.  Just another Wal-Mart rip-off of the public.

Perhaps DAZ will buy e-frontier -- and solve all of our little hobbyist problems for us in so doing.  DAZ seems to be in a buying mood these days. 

((Note for the gullible and for the too-literal minded: I don't actually believe that such a thing will ever happen.  It's a half-joke.  Something that I'd like to see occur -- but I know that it's highly unlikely, at best.))

For one thing, going along with the hypothetics, if DAZ purchased e-frontier to acquire Poser, then they could make D|S work properly in every way as they would then have direct access to the source code. Irony, okay. ;D

beryld, what is extremely funny is that the people who wrote Poser can't seem to get the gist of how to create content for it, yet outside interests are far more advanced in this (DAZ, Anton, etc.).  Why is it that they keep hiring people who don't understand the issues to create their content instead of the 'pros'?  One almost must reach the conclusion that they are a little 'penny wise, pound foolish'.

Robert

Quote - Nobody said anything about, "only ever been Daz figures." Just give some quality figures in default Poser7.

Um... I was just using that as an extreme example of what we'd end up with if our Poser Runtimes were all just DAZ figures. You do get that point I'm sure!

Yeah I'm griping about new figures that are supposed to be fixes for the old ones, I'll continue til someone at CP acknowleges that they goofed and fixes them. If this doesn't sort itself out soon, I won't be renewing my Passport membership when it runs out and I'll be down to my LifeTime PoserWorld subscription and be glad of it!

"Has it ever occurred to you that M4/V4 might actually work properly when they come out? Getting stuff in a hurry isn't much use if it needs to be fixed later."

Mac, I was just speaking in reference to the fact that the EF figures are coming out while M4/V4 have been talked about for at least the last two years.  Of course, M4/V4 will work if/when they come out.  There would still probably be updates, but no biggie since a lot of major figures have tweaks that are discovered after the public release.

The EF figures will "work" as well.  It just remains to be seen whether they will have any real additional functionality or they will just be tweaked versions of the originals. 

Ah, I may not be reading everything as meant today. Bad tooth, lots of codein. My apologies to all.

PoserWorld lifer myself. That was the best money spent for return.

kuroyume0161, got to agree with you there. You get right down to it, this is three versions of figures that are a mess. I don't think any other content creator can say that. "Got's to be a record."

You Too Beryl? Send me some Codeine! Bad tooth here too on top of a severe sinus issue that I'm due to get a head cat scan for on Monday. So everyone who think's I'm just being unreasonably bitchy about this can just cut me some slack.

Has anyone else downloaded the actual readme documentation for this preview release of these figures? Yeah it's a separate download that has to be added to your cart to get it. For some reason the readme wouldn't fit in their release zip file go figure!

Here's what it says about Faceroom Support:

**Face Room
** Face room modules will be released as an open beta and will be free add-ons. If you would like to beta test and have in depth knowledge of Poser, Python, texturing, or modeling, please send a request to CPdevinfo@e-frontier.com.

Seems it's only going to be released as an Open Beta to qualified people who request it! By Qualified, I point you to the "In Depth Knowlege" portion of that announcement.

Just from outside observation -- I don't have any 'inside' knowledge of the subject (and I could therefore be totally wrong about this) -- my speculation is that the long wait time on M4/V4 stems more from marketing reasons than it does from a delay in figure development.  The initial reactions that I saw to the suggestion of a V4 model a year or so ago were along the lines of "'nuthin' doin, I'm too heavily invested in V3 to want another model that I have to buy things for" -- comments like that.  No doubt, if a marketing simpleton like me can notice that, then DAZ is probably savvy enough to grasp the implications of it, too.

Sure -- the market needs a V4 -- eventually.  And we'll get one, too.  But the timing should be done right.  A year ago probably would have been too soon for Poser Market attitudes to adjust to it.  But I've got the feeling that the time is just about ripe for it now........

You can't remain stuck in the past.  Otherwise, we'd still be using the P1 figures: such as they were.  V3 has had a great run.  IMO, it's about time for a new girl in town.  A base model that is more....... essentially realistic.  The default mode should be a supermodel for sales purposes (of course).  But, IMO she doesn't need to be nearly 6 feet tall.  Comparitively few women are that tall in real life -- although there are a few.  IMO, the "ideal" female model would come with averages by default.  Espeically the average height for women.  Which, IIRC -- would put her somewhere around 5'-6" tall.  Something like that.  Also, IIRC: for men it's somewhere around 5'-9", 5--10"?  I haven't taken the time to google it, so I'm not 100% sure.

Well, with this ef figure feasco(sp?). Daz has the ball in thier court, what better timing to intoduce a new figure that you know you can trust. The M4's could be finished and Daz could be waiting for the additional content to be finished and tested. That's just my guess work not fact.

I really don't care about the add-ons for M4's, just the figures and main morphs. I can model my own stuff for them. But I will have to wait like everyone and I'm in no hurry. I'm having to much fun watching ef figures shoot themselves in the foot, again.

"He blew up real good."

Quote - what is extremely funny is that the people who wrote Poser can't seem to get the gist of how to create content for it ...

I'm convinced that the people who wrote Poser have never seriously used it. Otherwise they would have been driven to fix some of the annoying issues just for their own benefit ...

Excellent, if not disillusioning, point, Phantast!

Robert

Quote - There are three thumbnail sizes: 35x35, 60x60, and 80x80 depending on which viewing selection you choose.

Can you tell me where to find that? It's not on the main page, not found by clicking 'mystuff'. Nowhere. And btw, where is everybody getting all the smileys they're posting? Are you guys attaching them, or is that a forum option I'm missing?

See the attached screen capture for Smilies.

:b_confused:

Quote - Mac, I was just speaking in reference to the fact that the EF figures are coming out while M4/V4 have been talked about for at least the last two years

Yup, PapaBM. I guessed that. I was just voicing my own thoughts on hurriedly releasing figures (apparently) without ensuring that they do what they're supposed to do.

Re V4/M4 and DAZ Marketing - I have the feeling that any Mil 4 release will be based on real improvements in the figure structure, rather than squeezing every last cent out the previous versions. My reasoning is simple. If new figures aren't attractive enough to customers, they'll stick with the old ones. So, no matter what the marketing boys may think, the bottom line will still be 'Is this worth the money I'm going to spend on it?'

Mind you, I have no idea what's going on within DAZ. I'm just basing my guess on common sense. That, and the fact that, as DAZ get more and more of the market share, they can afford to screw up even less. So I reckon they'll take their time and get it right. Or at least, as right as any major figure release is ever likely to be. No matter how careful they are, there will always be some problem that crops up.

mac

Quote - > Quote - There are three thumbnail sizes: 35x35, 60x60, and 80x80 depending on which viewing selection you choose.

Can you tell me where to find that? It's not on the main page, not found by clicking 'mystuff'. Nowhere.

Above the item list there are a series of arcane-looking square buttons that give you different views of the list. The default has tiny icons and such tiny print that I had a big headache very quickly. The last option gives you the biggest icons but no text about the item, so that's not very useful. Which leaves the middle option.

I agree it's not intuitive that these options are there and that these buttons control them. It would be more normal to find one effective design and stick with that - or at the very least, use the most effective design as the default.

Quote - no matter what the marketing boys may think, the bottom line will still be 'Is this worth the money I'm going to spend on it?'

You're kidding, right? Is there a market of more gullible sheep on the planet than the typical Poser/DAZ addict? I would normally come up with some absurd example of a useless release that people would stampede to buy, but I can't think of anything that wouldn't get the "Well, Geez, that's not absurd; that's just what I needed!!!" response, so what's the use? Millennium Roadkill? Morphing Brick? Pink Leather Texture for the V3 Bikini? Dynamic Pizza? Fae Fire Hydrant?

If this market were actually dominated by people with the maturity to say, "What do I need that for?" rather than "Neato! Gimme! Just charge it!" we wouldn't be on the fifth or sixth clunky, bug-ridden version of Poser, and we wouldn't have 2 terabytes each of unopened downloads.

I'm not one of those who was waiting in line for the G2's, shifting from one foot to the other to avoid wetting myself. Of course they were released too soon and are a mess. What else is new?

As a rule, consumers get the markets they deserve, and consumers haven't the integrity to care where it came from, who got ripped off to guarantee them "the best price in town," what village in some unspellable country was polluted by the manufacturer, or what legitimate vendor was driven out of business by the "best price is all the matters" mentality. "Gimme!"

Quote - > Quote - I'm not one of those who was waiting in line for the G2's, shifting from one foot to the other to avoid wetting myself.

Hey now! I resemble that remark! Just look at the puddle on the floor!  :b_blush:

Quote - If this market were actually dominated by people with the maturity to say, "What do I need that for?"

I fit more in this statement. Sure, I'm hooked on Poser but not that much that I just can't do without something if I probably won't use it and especially don't want someting that doesn't work right.

Poser is a 'hobbyist' application.  Maturity need not apply to inexperience with high end applications.  If someone with the experience and $1500 dollars to use Maya and Studio Max, More power to them.

Poser is an easy introduction into the world of CGI.  It is easy to use and relatively cheap.  That doesn't mean that people that use it, or buy poser figures are immature.  As far as it goes, all American markets are ruled by people with more money than common sense.

That doesn't mean that Poser users thumb their noses at quality.  When I get something, I want it to work as stated-- Not needing loads of fixes, and work-arounds!

DAZ is like one of those big art-supply stores with all sort of thingies of dubious nature, that may appeal to a very narrow market, as well as very focused mass-market  gimmicks to draw in more customers. However if their figures were sub-standard---NO ONE would use them, except for their fans.

That being said--M3 and V3 have become the standard figures for a reason.  They work as promised.  You don't have to like it, I don't have to like it, but there it is.  The P6 figures have more going wrong than right in comparison to them.  THAT is the nature of what's being discussed!

The G2 figures are not in a vacuum.  Like new car models, they HAVE to compete in the market-place against everyone else's models.  The ones that do NOT break down more, usualy get more people to buy them.

Personally, I wanted the G2 figures to have kicked butt, just to give DAZ a run for the money.  Competition is good for the market, and overall marketplace of 3D CG goodies.

XENOPHONZ said:
Blue Moon models : I've found that all blue moon models have their partisans within the Poser community -- but they are still just blue moon models.  Also-rans: without a whole lot of outside support.  Although there is some.

All I gotta say....is

SIxus1, the  Blue Moon models king!!!!! 

Although, I don't know if that is something that one should be proud of. 

On the actual topic of conversation...I have absolutely nothing useful to say, as usual.  :)

--Rebekah--

I had the same problem had to use mozilla.

Quote - Is there a market of more gullible sheep on the planet than the typical Poser/DAZ addict?

Well, I can see your opinion of your fellow users isn't too high. I won't you're entirely wrong though. In any market under the sun, there's always the 'Gimme, gimme' crew, and to be sure, a large number of poser users buy stuff they never use much. But when we're talking about buying a major figure, plus all the clothes and accessories to fit him/her, I reckon most people will have a pretty close look before they start throwing money around.

As it happens, I make my living from selling products to these same 'gullible sheep' you mention, and I can tell you now that in 5 years of selling content, I've only ever had to make one minor fix to a product. (I have updated products to work with new versions of software, but that's my own choice). Why only one fix in 5 years? Because I take a pride in the stuff I make, and I test it to death myself before it even gets near the beta-testers. After that, it gets tested for a third time by DAZ, then it goes on sale.

And why bother? Because these same 'gullible sheep' only have to buy one product that sucks, and I'm history. I don't call that 'gullibility'. I call that 'common bloody sense'.

All you need to do is look at the poser forums to know that even if DAZ put out the perfect V4/M4 figures, without a single flaw or bug, there would still be people who'd find something to complain about. Gullible sheep have a nasty tendency to turn into ravening wolves when they see something they can sink their teeth into.

mac

Woof Woof! Grrrr....

I'm one of those so called, "gullible sheep," when it comes to figures. But, I will not buy another figure from ef after this Miki/Koji BS, until they prove they can be trusted. I will take the new figures when they get them finished (allegedly) and see where it goes from there. Though, I will upgrade to P7 when it comes out and will have whatever crap untested figures they decide to throw in as an after thought.

Maclean is right, one bad product can ruin you. Yes, even if Daz put out a perfect mil 4 figure, people will complain. Most of that would be frustration of not having all thier last version stuff work with the new version and even Daz tends to have a cross dresser version included to help with that, or the have so far.

I had a good laugh at the CP forums reading the complete drek(sp?) that they are feeding everyone. Looks like even their own quotes are not what they said and anyone that points out the flaws are jerks. The few brown N's are making it worse. Things will not get fixed with thier high praises. Ef will say, " they like it," so we don't need to do anything more. All though ef can feed those praisers Dog doo on a plate and they will eat it and tell us how good it is. Proof is in what happened with the last figures. Never fixed the joint problems and ripped everyone off with the face room support for Koji, which BTW, has been mentioned,Face room support for the figures might  not being included in the full version upon release.

For what it's worth, I would love to see ef get thier figures right. What I'm seeing and what I have read and what I have tested........ (shrugs shoulders) not impressed.

Baaa-Woof Baaa-Woof!

Quote - > Quote - Is there a market of more gullible sheep on the planet than the typical Poser/DAZ addict?

Well, I can see your opinion of your fellow users isn't too high.

Nothing personal. I consider humankind the ultimate proof of Sturgeon's Law; it's an educated opinion. And turning on a vendor for "one mistake" doesn't strike me as any more mature that gobbling up every MFD that hits the shelf. As witness the ludicrous lynch party that greeted the demanded release of P5. Poser may never recover the cred lost in that incident, but frankly, neither will the hordes of twits I watched waving their torches and grunting threats.

It's true, I suppose, that a large part of the Poser user-base is hobbyists, though I'm not sure what makes a person a "hobbyist" as opposed to, say, a starving artist, an aspiring CGI technician, and an information engineer with a use for a simple visualization tool. And every hobby I've ever participated in has included the folks who actually are engaged in the hobby and the herds of faddists who are just there because that's where everybody is. Being a hobbyist doesn't require immaturity.

As a general thing that might be called a rule, the indifference of a company to ethics and the welfare of its customers is in a direct ratio to size. Been there, watched, left. As a codicil, many companies realize that telling customers what you really think of them, right to their faces, can threaten market share, so they hire budding used car salesmen and airline attendants manqué to handle the face-to-face hypocrisy. Little companies can't afford that kind of fluff, so the little ones that consist of rip-off artists and customer exploiters don't last long. I would much rather buy from a face than a corporation, because I get to see if I'm dealing with a jerk, thug, or sociopath immediately, rather than having to study on it. And very few of the jerks, thugs, and sociopaths last long as individual vendors.

M

For what it's worth, I haven't turned on anyone for one or even many mistakes. I've just pointed them out with much gusto as is my right as a paying customer. Nobody needs to agree with me, though it's nice to know I'm not alone. The reverse side of the coin is that nobody needs to be taking what I've said about CP/EF so personally that they resort to name calling and personal attacks on my person.

Whether or not I'm coming off sounding rosey, childish or stupid, the issues exist and I'm not the only one who's noticed or remarked on them. I admit I've been the most vocal about it and have come across to many as petulant. I own up to that.

I also own up to this. I do have serious health issues affecting my moods and general well being and since bitching about them produces no results whatsoever, I don't bitch about them! If I focus that bad feeling on something petty to you personally, just look at it as I'm blowing off steam where I feel it will do the most good and least amount of damage. At least when I bitch at Content Paradise, they listen. They may not fix things to my satisfaction, but they don't attack my character either.