Sariel is based on a phi average height, width and girth for all limbs using measurements from over 30 human/humanoid figures, and is being modelled to very carefully allow edgeloops to follow muscle groups.

The goal is that the Sariel core mesh can be shaped into any human or humanoid form (by humanoid we mean any humanoid with a human-ish skeletal structure -- obviously morphing down to 3 fingers or morphing wings out of the mesh will beyond possibility, but that's what kitbashing parts on or out is for).

Now, before some moderator gets overzealous, the following questions I (Dodger) have been frequently asked should be looked over. In other words, don't move this, it's in the right place. This is not a commercial posting. It's not even a freebie posting. See below.

FAQ

Q: How much will Sariel cost?
A: Nothing.

Q: So, Sariel will be free?
A: No.

Q: WTF?
A: You can't have Sariel. Well, unless you can, but then you already probably know who you are, or are in for a pleasant surprise.

Q: So this is just for you and a few people you pick? So what's the point?
A: Sariel is going to be made into a few other figures, ones that aren't so generic. Initially, male and female we shall make them.

Q: So what are those figures going to be called?
A: Elizabeth and Gabriel.

Q: You think that's funny, don't you? Liz and Gabe? Come on!
A: Actually, yes, it's hilarious -- but especially because it's a total coincidence. These were the names intended loooong before I had any clue what Mehndi and BH's real names were. It's just sad that there's no way I can justify a 'Ron' or 'Bryan' or 'Anton' or 'Sherman' to fit into the theme. Well, maybe Sherman. We'll see.

Q: So how was this a coincidence?
A: Because the names were actually specifically chosen way back when when this was just an idea in my head and the original Mickey mesh (which was scrapped to make him Unimesh instead) was hardly started. Right about the time I did the Freak Primitive set, or something, if I recall correctly. But maybe earlier. Someone has to remember. I'll ask Molly. She might remember. (Yeah, she's on my iChat regularly and we talk a lot now.)

Q: But you still haven't said HOW this was coincidence.
A: Sorry, tangent. The names were chosen to contrast against Victoria and Michael. See, when I think 'Victoria' the first thing I think of is 'Queen of England', but when I think 'Queen of England' the first thing I think of is 'Elizabeth'. Honestly, 'Michael' is enough of a commonplace name that it's not as extreme for him, but following the same logic, according to myth, Michael was an archangel, and so was Gabriel. If you pay close attention, the first few Aeon figures followed this, too. Anna (Queen Anne) and Mary (Mary, Queen of Scots) and Seth and Raphael were chosen along the same lines. By the time I got to Robin, I just needed a neuter name, so I dropped the pattern. Ehh.

Q: Okay, so you're going to call them Elizabeth and Gabriel. Do you have a catchy brand name to compete with 'Millenium'? I mean, what could be more catchy than 'The Millenium Man'?
A: The DaVinci™ Man.

Q: Oh. Ok.
A: That's not a question. But I have declared intent-to-use both formally and publically in accordance with US Patent and Trademark Law. That's protected now, so don't try it. Thanks. Renderosity Copyright Agent, if you will, please acknowledge either publically or privately when you see this that you have seen it. Thanks again.

Q: So, you're going to make a male and a female and sell those.
A: No.

Q: Huh?
A: Don't assume. Ask in two parts.

Q: So, you're going to make a male and a female?
A: Yes, I already said that.

Q: But you said to ask in two parts. Grr. Okay. Are you going to sell those?
A: Nope.

Q: So we don't get those either?
A: I didn't say that.

Q: So THOSE will be freebies?
A: Yup.

Q: You're going to give away two realistic human figures for free?
A: It's nothing new. M3 and V3 are free now. Mayadoll has always been. HER. There are others.

Q: What quality are you aiming for?
A: V3/David quality at least. Plus some tricks that no one else knows yet. The people I explain them to still seem confused by them even.

Q: The feet and crotch aren't done and there are weird gaps.
A: Not a question either, but I'll address it. The gaps are there because I (and most modellers) when working on a symmetrical model, only model one half. The right side of the figure is a mirrored instance. Sometimes the centre line gets a bit wobbly from the sub-D smoothing. As to the genital, I haven't done it yet. As to the feet, I still have to bodybag Clark's feet. (I'm JOKING!! Chill! I just haven't gotten that far yet. Nor the inner mouth but that's less obvious.)

Q: Will they have JCMs?
A: No

Q: Built in bodyhandles or magnets or something like that?
A: No

Q: Something that makes it a pain in the butt to build add-ons for?
A: Ehh. Something that sounds like it might be but really isn't, fair enough? And all you'll need to do so will be readily available if you want to do things you can't do off the base mesh. But mostly just stuff you've done before, just maybe never realised what it was you were doing.

Q: So what's the catch?
A: Nothing for you. My bandwidth is going to be crying, but that's just a catch for me, not you.

Q: So what's the point?
A: Wait and see. Suffice it to say that very few people will get Sariel. Everyone will get the DaVinci figures. And no one will have to pay a red cent for them.

Q: Why are you telling us all this?
A: Two reasons. One, because it's actually close to ready. Two, because someone keeps getting on my case about getting them done, and if I announce that these guys are on their way, it will keep my arse focused on getting them the rest of the way. I've been accused of a bad habit of getting 99% done with things and then panicking and working on some other thing that I get 99% done with and so on and so forth, and, well, I can't necessarily argue it. However, this way I will potentially have ALL of you nagging me.

Interesting!
I can't wait to see the 100% of this project!

Both face and body look quite generic...

Q: The male & female will be one character morphing from one gender to another?

Q: Those figures will be copyright free too? Like Project Human (and MayaDoll I think... )

...... (scratches head)  right.... interesting. And so long as the davinci figures are attractive enough for me to use, why not have them. 

OK, keep us all posted.  Thank you.

Wonderful. Something new to look forward to.

:lol: The internal dialogue alone is worth the price of admission.

I find this all so very fascinating! I can hardly wait the out come. You have my complete curiosity and thank you!  As far as the internal dialogue? Hell I ask myself questions and even get answers daily...LOL!

Cheers,
Micheál

Do I hear 99.9%. Don't stop. Keep going. They look terrific.

cheerio   lululee

The concept is not that unusal.  Pixar Tools uses a generic "Everyman" model that gets morphed into everyone else.  The "Incredibles" made fine use of it.  This is a very interesting thread, and base concept for poser.  I'll follow this with interest! ^__^

Q: The male & female will be one character morphing from one gender to another?

No. That would lead to crappy joints.

Q: Those figures will be copyright free too? Like Project Human (and MayaDoll I think... )

Nope. The figures will not be open source, but provisions for reuse of specific portions of the mesh will be made.

For instance, I currently intend to release the hands themselves, or most of the hands anyway, for specific reuse allowable in making conforming gloves, as a matched mesh is the best way to make gloves work right.

I got a few more questions privately, so I'm posting them:

Q: What are you modelling in?
A: 3DS Max 8, except for some reason I did the ear in Maya 7. Some additional refinement in ZBrush.

Q: It looks like there are tris in there...
A: Not in those pics. That's one sub-D down so all tris are now three quads, actually. In the low poly mesh there are some, but tris are only a problem when they cluster together. They are spaced out. Look at the face wireframe and you'll see that deliberate effort to keep them pretty evenly spaced (based on the quad-triplet triangles that you can see) has been made.

Q: So there's a low-poly version too?
A: Well, of course. That's how it gets modelled. If and when I release the low-poly versions of figures, and if those versions are free is not determined, so I'm not talking about it here. Shaddup.

Q: That render looks cool. How did you do it?
A: Just the Max 8 default scanline renderer with Advanced Lighting->Light Tracer turned on and a single Skylight with default values. The floor box is added to make the render a bit nicer than Sar just floatin' in space there, and to provide a bit of radiosity back up on Sar, as the Light Tracer does that. Takes a little longer than a default mesh render without any lights (about three times as long, or twice as long as an unlit Mental Ray render) but looks nicer when showing something off.

Q. How will the bending/joints compare/differ to any other figure currently available for Poser or D/S (will they suffer the same mesh deformations in arms up/down poses?)?

Q. Will the free base figures be fully scalable (scaling individual body parts as well as the overall figure)?

Q. Will the free base figures come with any morphs at all, or do we have to buy those seperately?

Any mapping details? :biggrin:
UV Progy used? :biggrin:

Hey...cool...still alive and moving further along. Been watching from afar for quite some time now :)

Interesting and subscribed now......

Looking good there for sure, keep focused!

Cool, Dodger. I've been eagerly awaiting them since I read the initial thread earlier this year.

As someone asked: Will these have similiar age scaling options like your Aeon figures? I love those kids :)

Stay focused. Stow the cock and the Thaark and get these out :)

-- Jeff

Q. How will the bending/joints compare/differ to any other figure currently available for Poser or D/S (will they suffer the same mesh deformations in arms up/down poses?)?
A: Not all figures suffer from those issues, and not all those that don't rely on hacks like JCMs, bodyhandles, magnets, or anything else like that. Some figures just have their joints done really well. I'm the guy writing the new book on it, so I should be able to do them well. Also, the metamorphing technology they will have in them will take care of a lot of things like the common armpit /deltoid issues.

Q. Will the free base figures be fully scalable (scaling individual body parts as well as the overall figure)?
A: Well, yeah, that's part of setting up joints, innit?

Q. Will the free base figures come with any morphs at all, or do we have to buy those seperately?
A: They'll definitely come with speech, blink, etc morphs. They will not very likely come with a lot of reshaping morphs except possibly some basic facial shape adjustments.

Q: Any mapping details?
A: Not mapped yet. Goal is a pelt map but without a seam up the outside of the arm. That seam right through the most likely place to have a tattoo on David and Vicky always bugged hell out of me.

Additionally, the thought has occurred to me that I can easily make a texture converter PZ3 file that you'd simply load up in Poser, load a texture, twist the dial, render and export a converted texture. No kidding! Seriously, think about what happens if you load, say, a map onto a moderately high poly plane... and that plane has a morph target...? And you're looking from an isomorphic camera (like a front or side camera) and the document is made the same aspect ratio as the picture with your map to convert loaded as a texture, all lights off, and ambient set to 1... Get it? It'slike a movie projection screen you can use magnets on!

Screw third party apps to convert that only work on one OS at a time -- texture conversion can be done right inside Poser.

Q: UV Progy used?
A: Combination of UVLayout, 3DSMax's UVW Unwrap modifier, and UVMapper Pro, and, of course, my Mirror.pl Perl script which, when I go to make the 'other' side, flips everything at once for me.

waves to Kat

'Q. Will the free base figures be fully scalable (scaling individual body parts as well as the overall figure)?
A: Well, yeah, that's part of setting up joints, innit? '

I was surprised how little scaling is possible with the new G2 figures - very minor tweaks only.  V3 and M3 both suffer from the same lack of scaling options - body parts deform and seperate at the bodypart joins. Very little versatility beyond morph options.

Apollo is the only figure I have used that does scale well. Granted, I haven't used many other figures.

I do like what I'm seeing and the philosophy of your approach.

I have to say, I'm pretty riveted.  the internal dialogue (and your sigline) have my attention (if only because I giggled).

MS

I'll be looking forward to seeing your figures.  I know the figures are sort of unimesh, but could you please give your male figure's face look male.  That was my problem with M3...

Favorite quote about M3, "No closet can hold him!"  LOL  I didn't say it, as I actually like his features (with the RIGHT texture! OI!), but I laugh everytime I hear that comment. :lol:

Now THIS is what I call interesting! Let us know about that book too - I'd probably buy it.

whats the poly count so far.  i think you're doing a great job. particularly like the way you did the loops on the head mesh.  you make it sound so easy lol...i;m envious of your knoweledge and skill.

billy

XFX3d -
Wow that part about the PZ3 file and the texture mapping stuff inside of Poser. 

Deep.
Sounds very cool.

Dodger, you must know quite a bit of anatomy by now hey. How did you learn it, and did it take you long? You'll be able to double as a surgeon if this project doesn't make you rich. Love esther

Fascinating. :) Looking forward for more! :)

Q: What are you modelling in?
A: 3DS Max 8, except for some reason I did the ear in Maya 7. Some additional refinement in ZBrush.

Gez when did you get rich?  I thought you worked in 3DS Max v3 or v4 cause ya didn't have money to upgrade.  Now ya have v8 and Maya 7 AND Zbrush?  WOW.

I work a full time job and cannot afford commercial licences of all those packages.  Good for you.

Q: Will the figures have the muscle-tendon interactive morphs I've see before on one figure's leg?  You bend the foot and the calf-muscle flexs just like a real leg.  Rikishi squats and his belly sticks out like a real persons.

I know I'd LOVE to see real looking /or acting tendons in the hands of a poser character, since the hands are one problem area plagued by unreal looking movements and appearances.  You might get the grip right looking like a poser figure is hanging on for dear life, except the hand is NOT tensed, or even TENSIBLE!

Can we look for anything like that?

Quote - waves to Kat

Waves back

Havin fun teasing people?

ok. So who's on first, what's on second, and I don't know is on third..;)

Interesting! I'm glad to see some more figure innovation coming to the Poser world. I'm staying tuned!

Quote - Q: What are you modelling in?
A: 3DS Max 8, except for some reason I did the ear in Maya 7. Some additional refinement in ZBrush.

 

Gez when did you get rich?  I thought you worked in 3DS Max v3 or v4 cause ya didn't have money to upgrade.  Now ya have v8 and Maya 7 AND Zbrush?  WOW.

I work a full time job and cannot afford commercial licences of all those packages.  Good for you.

"Gez when did you get rich?"

March, but really only upper middle class. The bay area is  'spensive.

Thank heavens for student discounts B^)
Academy of Art University & Working for AT&T in combination works out well B^)

Quote - Q: Will the figures have the muscle-tendon interactive morphs I've see before on one figure's leg?  You bend the foot and the calf-muscle flexs just like a real leg.  Rikishi squats and his belly sticks out like a real persons.

I know I'd LOVE to see real looking /or acting tendons in the hands of a poser character, since the hands are one problem area plagued by unreal looking movements and appearances.  You might get the grip right looking like a poser figure is hanging on for dear life, except the hand is NOT tensed, or even TENSIBLE!

Can we look for anything like that?

Possibly as an add-on injectible system. I don't want to alienate all the clothing makers B^)

Quote - Dodger, you must know quite a bit of anatomy by now hey. How did you learn it, and did it take you long? You'll be able to double as a surgeon if this project doesn't make you rich. Love esther

Anatomy Coloring Book.
A must have for the serious artist of people in any form.
Also Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Figure Drawing is another must.

Quote - I'm the asshole. You wanna be a shit? You gotta go through ME.

Love your sig line. :)

Any idea of when we should expect the first figure to be available?

Quote - Love your sig line. :)

Any idea of when we should expect the first figure to be available?

Thanks B^) Not going to make any estimates right now on date to ready. I'll only be wrong, and I like to learn from others' mistakes B^) (I can, however, if people would prefer, release as late as possible on a Friday arvo and then pretend to be incommunicado until Monday at 9am PST)

Very cool.  Any previews of Elizabeth and Gabriel individually would be great too when they're ready :)

Quote - > Quote - Any idea of when we should expect the first figure to be available?

Thanks B^) Not going to make any estimates right now on date to ready. I'll only be wrong, and I like to learn from others' mistakes B^)

Makes sense. :)
Shouldn't have asked i guess... just was curious about a very broad figure.

Between now and 2016, right? ;)

Quote - (I can, however, if people would prefer, release as late as possible on a Friday arvo and then pretend to be incommunicado until Monday at 9am PST)[

LOL! :)

Friday arvo?

I am sure looking forward for your new figures! :D

Bump. :biggrin:

**Q: Do we need more new figures?
**A: Yes and no. I don't, I've got to many already, but everyone else does, since V4 was dissapointing to many and isn't really free.

**Q: Will this ever come out?
**A: Most likely not, I just nocited the date this was posted originally.

Q: Why am I reading this anyway?
A: My computer is building one of my game levels, so I'm just browsing until it's done.

Are they done yet?!? poke poke Are they done yet?!? :tt2:

You've got my interest...

well, at least some more snappy patter...;)