Do you read our mail?or is it private?and do you have the right to read our mail?Rumour has it that someones personal message was used to get them in trouble....is this true?

Hi Bill, well i think it is not allowed to read private messages and emails.
The correspodence should be private and its not directed to anyone else but only to the recipient.

Thats what i thought ,But now i hear from a friend that we are being selectively monitored if they foresee some kind of problem in the gallery or marketplace...I want to hear it from the top that we are not..then i will sleep better..because i believe like you it should only be read by who it is sent to.

Well if this rumour is true, this will really gives me a bad feeling. :(
My private messages are private, ( how the name says) , If i want that other peoples read my opinions i use the Forum.   

Renderosity does not monitor site mail.....could ya imagine trying to read the IM's of 400,000 + members?? :blink:

I'd be more worried about the government...they see anything whenever they want...{I just discovered Google Earth again...and found my house. :scared:

Dont know who your friend is, or why they'd want to start such a rumor..but its untrue.

It's very well possible to monitor site mail, there's no encryption system. The messages are just plain text stored in the database, so anyone with the correct database access rights can read them.

I know how to design a database in such a way that ONLY the database administrator can assert the right to read another one's site mail. But this requires the use of stored procedures, which are not supported by MySQL 4.x.

So technically it's possible. But I don't think the staff has so much time on their hands that they're sifting through PMs.Maybe if someone reports abuse of the site mail system, for example a member receives hate mail or threats via site mail.

I don't know US and Tennessee law on this, but in Dutch law it is forbidden to read another one's mail. You'll need substantial suspicion of criminal activities plus a court order in order to read that mail legally.

@jumpstartme2
Well maybee they dont read all the IM, just special one?
LOL Ist nice to see your house hmm? Du you know that they can watch even in your bedroom if they wanna? :cursing: 

@svdl
To read private mails and messages is forbidden in germany and Italy too.
Fact is, not even the police can use private letters aginst you if they read them and find something suspect inside the letter or mail. Whithout your okay is not allowed.

I thought you'd said you were leaving anyway so it shouldn't matter to you!

Thats crap!All my friends are here and my gallery is still here ,i just dont post art here anymore...I am still concerned when friends get screwed with..and that is why i am asking..

@fixer
Well if bill write in the Forums or he leave the community it is his bussines and shouldnt matter to you too. :blink:

It doesn't, What matters to me is the constant whingeing at the way the site is run all the time!!

Sure, if it's happening it's bad but I can tell you with first hand knowledge that when I did the job as a mod here I certainly had no access to other's site mail, maybe someone higher up might but I never heard of it!

As for time, the mods don't have the time to do it either, most of the time is taken up with members posting images that they shouldn't or dealing with little spats in the forums!

Incidentally, on that issue I only said that because I saw an image of yours a few nights back where you said you were leaving, if I mis-read it then that's fine!

Ok, Svdl has pretty much hit the nail on the head here...lets look at the TOS regarding communications...

Communications

Renderosity provides a variety of communication services to members. These include: forums, gallaries, chat rooms, message boards, and instant messaging. Any information provided by members using these services is considered public information and is logged. Renderosity has access to these communications and will review them if needed.

Now, altho Renderosity can view this information,{and this is admins/owners Im talking about here} this would only be done in instances like svdl mentioned above.. threats of physical harm, property damage or acts of violence toward another individual, or group of individuals, etc...
That being said, the staff absolutely do not sit and monitor members site mails...

Primal, Again, I do not know who you are referring to, but if that person has a concern, he/she can contact any member of staff with it. ;)

Ya'll rest easy K?

@Ladona:

Oh yes, I know they can see me...LOL! They can sit a mile from my house and listen to every word I say in my house...there is also a satellite that can pinpoint within a foot of where Im standing at any given time....

Spooky? Yea.... LOL

@jumpstartme2
LOL yes it is creepy. Imaging...they are some guys who are maybee boring, because nothing is happened and they start to play whith the monitors and look inside my house, just for fun.
And just this time i am doing something silly. :scared:   :blushing
Madonna , Mia, this could be very punishable by death  .
Hope i find the right english word for this. :blushing    lol

1. whatever you put in the internet is public. 2. if youd have access to other peoples accounts, would you read their mail or not? 3. if youd ask a polititian whether he will stay to his promises or not, what could his answer possibly be?

@Amacord

1. No its not. Is my bank account public? Has somebody the right to read private mails from me?
   Or another question, if you are working in a Postoffice, you have the right to open peoples letters and read them ? NO!!!
2. I never would do this. I dont know how you are thinking about this, but for me, i can say you NO!
3. LOL Here is better i ceep my mouth closed.   :cursing

Another look is this....

Was someone so uncomfortable with what someone else said to them in Site Mail that they forwarded it to admin?  It's completely possible, and probable.  A LOT more probable than an admin reading your mail.

MS

Now i have scene proof that what i say is true...and due to legal reasons i have to plead the 5th...and for the fixer i dont appreciate what you say,,its not helping in any way...calling people whiners doesnt help..the forum is to get some help and answer questions,it just seams like you want friction.To me the site is run very badly,It used to be alot different before all the constant herrassment...and if someone doesnt speak up for what they think or find out the truth then they arent seeing the whole picture..and that i guess is up to them..but i dont come to the forums just to have a different oppinion as others i come to hopefully find things out..

What happened whith the one answer.  
Why its deleted?  I want to write a reply but now its gone.
Is it wrong to tell the true?

Sorry... my ex-husband (who has been banned more times than you can shake a stick at) came back with another unhinged rant.

You can find the exact same post at http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2664703&page=2 by "ban-the-man" (catchy name...)

Quote - Sorry... my ex-husband (who has been banned more times than you can shake a stick at) came back with another unhinged rant.

You can find the exact same post at http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2664703&page=2 by "ban-the-man" (catchy name...)

Sorry Karen, this is really bad.        You are right.
I think the RO forum is not the right place for private harass.

Primaltruck, you can see that I have contributed to these forums many times in my time here and I have only once in that time to my memory had a spat with anyone and that was a misunderstanding which we sorted by IM.

To accuse me of "wanting friction" is totally not what I'm about, I'm sure "regular" posters will back me up on that. In fact it is just the opposite, I'm sick and tired of coming to these forums to see the same old "lets attack the site admins" mentality time and again, I would like to see the whole site just getting on with what we're all here for, posting your images, good like yours or bad like mine doesn't matter and generally "helping" each other out, remember that?

Seems a lot of people want to just come and bash how the site is run all the time and you know what, despite all the moans and groans, this site is still the best supported on the net and still continues to grow!

I intended no malice towards you personally, I never do, i just get pissed off with people having a go at the people who do a hard job for no pay trying to keep the site respectable for everyone, if that's wrong of me well......................... and if I have offended you well I'm sorry!

I doubt if they have time to read IMs here. nonetheless, I compose every IM, every e-mail, every forum message, every telephone call, every communication of any kind as if it's being monitored. even tho it's most probably not being monitored. the reason: I don't labour under any delusions that freedom of speech is anything more than an illusion, anywhere in this world.

Jumpstartme2 gave the appropriate information gathered from the TOS

Renderosity provides a variety of communication services to members. These include: forums, gallaries, chat rooms, message boards, and instant messaging. Any information provided by members using these services is considered public information and is logged. Renderosity has access to these communications and will review them if needed.

So the answer is no we don't routinely monitor site mails BUT as stated above if needed we will review (ie, harrassment, attacking, threats, etc)

Thanks

**
**

Oh and in response to you primaltruck, we don't discuss others issues with anyone but staff and that specific person or persons involved. If your friend has an issue its up to them to communicate with staff about it

Thank you stacy that answers it pretty well..and i didnt mean to put anyone down for doing their jobs...i understand the need for this in these instances(Herrasment,abuse,ect) but was curious what the rules were...I shouldnt  be thinking anything out here on the internet is really private..and to thefixer,no hard feelings and sorry about the friction thing..It is sometime hard to see what someone is saying..in type..

No worries primaltruck:) 

Have a great evening!!

Now i see that Armourbeast has adressed this issue in its completeness in the poser forum....Check it out it explains what i couldnt."Another merchant banned serious questions"is the name of the post..

as a side note, an IM, like a phone call, may be considered a privileged communication for which there is a reasonable expectation of privacy (no federal privacy law in the states). in some european jurisdictions they may have actual laws declaring it so. but there are always exceptions.

Hmmmm, I'm going to step in here for a moment on this subject, because I wonder if there is a bit more to this than has been discussed so far. It's been stated by the admins & moderators that site mail or email might be looked at in cases such as "harrassment, attacking, threats, etc." Those particular examples sound okay to me...I'd guess that in such situations that one of the parties (probably the receiver of the messages?) welcomes (maybe even requests) the aid & investigation by the admins.

But the TOS asserts the general right for the admins to look at these things, and I don't see any restrictions stated as to the circumstances. How about these??

• What if a member regularly complains in the forums about the site (e.g., site speed, conversion issues, general fairness of how members are treated by the admins, etc). Does this member become a subject of having their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

• What if a member posts a controversial image in the galleries, one which fully conforms to the TOS, but which some admin strongly dislikes. Does this member suddenly get their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

• What if a member who purchased a product in the store is really unhappy with the item, complains bitterly about it but can never get the matter resolved either with the merchant or the store manager. The member NEVER makes any threats, or harrassment or personal attacks, but has a heated argument with the store manager about the issue. Can this member's private messages or email be scrutinized by the admins?

• What if an admin learns that a member has been discussing that admin ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITE...perhaps making disparaging remarks about that admin...but NONE of that discussion is ever made on Renderosity. Does this member's private messages or email get rifled through, too?

• What if a Renderosity merchant has a dispute with the admins concerning a product. Can the admins go through the merchant's emails & private messages looking for incriminating evidence against the merchant?

• What happens if a member gets banned from the site because some admin has misinterpreted the member's email or private messages...reads something out of context or thinks it says something it, in fact, doesn't.

I frankly was surprised to hear that the TOS asserted the right of the admins to read these messages & emails. Initially, quite shocked, in fact. I'd like to know the answers to the hypothetical scenarios that I suggested above. I suspect the answer is "Yes" on many if not all of these, and that would be real food for thought.

While I would agree that the admins probably don't have alot of spare time to just sit around reading member's private messages, it does seem like a rather slippery slope and a real intrusion in the member's privacy.

What if a member regularly complains in the forums about the site (e.g., site speed, conversion issues, general fairness of how members are treated by the admins, etc). Does this member become a subject of having their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

No, that does NOT happen

• What if a member posts a controversial image in the galleries, one which fully conforms to the TOS, but which some admin strongly dislikes. Does this member suddenly get their private messages or email scrutinized by the admins?

Again, NO of course not, that is not even close to what the TOS meant or I meant

What if a member who purchased a product in the store is really unhappy with the item, complains bitterly about it but can never get the matter resolved either with the merchant or the store manager. The member NEVER makes any threats, or harrassment or personal attacks, but has a heated argument with the store manager about the issue. Can this member's private messages or email be scrutinized by the admins?

Once again NO, this wouldn't be any cause for us to "scrutinize" their site mail

What if an admin learns that a member has been discussing that admin ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITE...perhaps making disparaging remarks about that admin...but NONE of that discussion is ever made on Renderosity. Does this member's private messages or email get rifled through, too?

I'm seeing a pattern, LOL again NO.

What if a Renderosity merchant has a dispute with the admins concerning a product. Can the admins go through the merchant's emails & private messages looking for incriminating evidence against the merchant?

Again NO that doesn't happen

What happens if a member gets banned from the site because some admin has misinterpreted the member's email or private messages...reads something out of context or thinks it says something it, in fact, doesn't.

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  The scenario you described above has never happened since I have been here and never heard of a case like that so I don't think someone would be "banned" because an admin "misinterpreted" something. So again I'll have to say No that doesn't happen

That section has been in the TOS as long as I have been here (over 4 years) so I'm wondering did some not read the TOS that they agreed to?

I did read the TOS I agreed to.
the TOS now is not that TOS.....

That part of the TOS was Khai and that is what we are discussing.

yes there has been changes and amendments to the TOS as it states that its subject to change and of course has always said that just as most any Terms say.

Renderosity reserves the right to change, alter or modify the Terms of Service as needed. All postings, past and present are subject to the most current terms of service

still not the TOS I agreed to in 2000 Stacey.. tho thats not the issue lol

anyway.. back to the September BBQ...

Yes but you agreed knowing it was subject to change no matter how you try and spin it:(  That is standard that a TOS might change as years pass

actually no.. I did'nt agree to it... I just wanted the freebies... funny that..

Well funny that is right cause you wouldn't have made it through registration without clicking that little box saying you agree to the terms, LOL 

oh I clicked th button. but thats it.

I did not agree to it. there is a difference... think on that ...

StaceyG wrote> Quote -No, that does NOT happen

 Again, NO of course not, that is not even close to what the TOS meant or I meant

Once again NO, this wouldn't be any cause for us to "scrutinize" their site mail

I'm seeing a pattern, LOL again NO.

Again NO that doesn't happen

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  The scenario you described above has never happened since I have been here and never heard of a case like that so I don't think someone would be "banned" because an admin "misinterpreted" something. So again I'll have to say No that doesn't happen

Okay...thank you, Stacey. One last question...On this subject, are you speaking officially for the entire administration of the Renderosity site including those admins who run the Renderosity store?

I also want to make the small observation that while you've answered "No" to all my specific scenarios, you do seem to be keeping your options open when you added "we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc." and the determination of what is actually meant by "cases that require it" is open to some interpretation, wouldn't you agree?

If there is a reason and I gave some examples of what that would be, we can review site mails. Cases that require it, YES (examples harrassment, threats, etc) I answered NO to all your scenarios because that was the answer to all of them NO.

And yes I speak for the Entire Admin team on this issue.

'ang on!
in the now gone thread in the poser forum you said you could only speak for your team, not the marketplace team etc.

so...?

Thank you again, Stacey...

Khai, she moved that thread over to the Copyright forum

without leaving the thread moved msg? ouch.

:b_lipssealed: I'm not sayin' nuttin' about that! LOL

Khai,

Stac was speaking about a somewhat different matter in that other thread...which basically is a marketplace issue iirc....this one is about site mail monitoring, which she answered.

Khai,  I did post that the thread had been moved to the APPROPRIATE forum,  you don't/can't see that?

Also Jani is right please re read what the issue is about in the other thread, its a little different than this one due to a vendor, copyrights being involved.

Thanks!!!

Have a great day!!

Khai,  I did post that the thread had been moved to the APPROPRIATE forum,  you don't/can't see that?

 not in the POSER forum where it was.

since I was not Abotting it.. to my eye's it just vanished. you don't / can't see that?

I see now when the truth comes out you lock the thread......I am upset that you stopped the truth....Why did the armourbeast thread get locked?Everyone needs to read and respond to what was said....and i think more feedback and discussion wouldnt hurt..or will you lock this thread too.This sucks!You have merchants and artists scared angry hurt and leaving..Final warnings with no previous warnings..This needs to be adressed ,,not locked away in your merchants threads that we cant access..What is happening to this fine community?It seams that Power corrupts even in small amounts..

Quote - I see now when the truth comes out you lock the thread......I am upset that you stopped the truth....Why did the armourbeast thread get locked?Everyone needs to read and respond to what was said....and i think more feedback and discussion wouldnt hurt..or will you lock this thread too.This sucks!You have merchants and artists scared angry hurt and leaving..Final warnings with no previous warnings..This needs to be adressed ,,not locked away in your merchants threads that we cant access..What is happening to this fine community?It seams that Power corrupts even in small amounts..

@Bill
How wise words. Could not expain it better.!!!!