New here so, a little background.

I've been doing both architectural and mechanical drafting and modeling in AutoCAD since R-12.  For rendering, I've been using McNeel's AccuRender since AR-2.  At AutoCAD 2004 and AR3, I finally jumped off the Autodesk subscription carousel.  AR4 delivered none of the things that we users asked for like caustics, volumetric lighting and soft shadows.  Instead, opting to spend development rescources on a new, cartoonish UI, integrated with Windows and IE that has slowed material creation, assignment and rendering to a crawl.  Not to mention that AR uses AutoCAD's mesher which has a nasty tendency for creating radiosity artifacts.

I've realized that I need nothing more than Acad 2002 for creating 2D construction documents and am looking to make a change in software for modeling and rendering.  I'm leaning towards Rhino for my modeling needs, as it's comfortable to work in and generates much better meshes for rendering.  Which leaves me looking for a rendering package.  Some folks who have jumped ship with AR are getting excellent results with Vray for Rhino.  But I have to confess, the biggest selling point of AR, at the time, was the plants and editor, which I would lose.  I know a lot of people just Photoshop them in but if the viewpoint changes, you have to PS them in again for each view change. 

A friend and hobbiest let me take Vue 5 Infinite on a landscape test drive.  It is a very impressive piece of software and I'm now considering Rhino/ Vue 6 Infinite as a combination for both interior and exterior renderings.  My quandry, though, is how one would handle scale for imported objects.  Obviously, with both AutoCAD and Rhino I would be working in real-world units scaled 1:1.  Vray for Rhino would leave me in the same environment.

 Looking at Vue, however exceptional the output, I get the feeling that it would be very much like what caused me to abandon Bryce years ago.  The tedium of having to scale and rescale objects and reassign materials over and over to make changes.  Then there's the problem of setting camera and target points, which is done in feet/ inches in AR and Rhino.

So, tell me about import scaling for architectural work.  Easy?  Difficult?  Is there a way to import objects and preserve origin points or do imports always come in at 0,0?  Setting cameras and targets?

Looking for some serious input.

TIA, Frank  

A long discussed issue.

I always propose the following simple trick - that btw should work in Bryce too.

Define a cube in your modelling program that surrounds your whole "world". Then, with every item you export export this cube with it. And import this combi then into Vue (or Bryce). Whatever the scaling might be, it will then always be related to the same item - the surrounding cube. After that delete this cube simply and all should be where it is supposed to be.

But on the other hand, Vue has in its preferences an option saying that you can switch the auto resize and center off - should work as well.

The problem you might stay with is the size of your Vue native content - vegetation etc. This you have to do manually. Vue is an illustration program, not an architectual simulation one.

If added work and steps is what you dislike, DO NOT USE VUE FOR ARCH WORK.

We use it at my firm.  Oh god how I wish for a DWG Link like Max has.  Instead, you must use ACAD to export a 3ds and import THAT into Vue.  Now here is the kicker.  3ds files have a 65,000 verticie limit.  Seems like a lot, but you never really have total control over how items are converted into the 3ds, causing you to sometimes have to import various items seperately.  The auto reload basicaly doesn't work cause if you change the dimensions or size, it moves your re-import.  Try matching that in Vue.  Oof.  Also, there's no precision texture mapping.  Getting items to scale is a pain in the ass.

Vue = NO BUENO for arch vis work.

Architect/designer/3D guru here, I second Ryan.  Vue is fun if you don't care about precision... unfortunately, architecture IS ALL ABOUT precision.  I've done 3 very large projects in VUE, and am deciding to quit using it until hmmm version 10 comes out or something.

scaling... tip I've figured out this past week... but am still working on... scale your object in VUE by typing in the exact x or y distance you know from your CAD 3D model file you are importing into VUE... so that 1 vue unit = 1 foot.  Then things go smoother.  I was unchecking the 'resize and rescale' box in my options, but found my CAD converted .3ds 3D models came into VUE WAY too big for vue to handle if they were on a large landscape... which my projects seem to be for some reason.

My suggestion is create a new file - a cube 1000' each side, divide it by 100' increments, import it into VUE and see how big VUE makes it when it rescales/resizes... then bring another copy in, and adjust it's scale to be 1000... go from there.  At least this way, if 1 Vue unit is 1 foot to me, I know where and how high my camera is...

you may want to read this thread...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2667018&page=1

my review of VUE for Architects
http://www.vizdepot.com/forums/showthread.php?p=30696#post30696

my issues with Rendering posted to e-on's website
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support...p?id=1147626608

Wabe, Ryan and Fuzzy, thanks for the input.

I should have mentioned that 90% of the work I do is residential.

I'm aware of the 3DS vertex limit, having used 3DS up to v4.  My thinking is that Rhino can solve a lot of these kinds of problems because of something I discovered, quite inadvertently.

The biggest problem I've had with making manageable chunks out of 3DS files is that if I mesh objects seperately, getting adjoining edges to meet exactly can be a pain.  Meshing the whole thing and exploding the mesh results in a cloud of triangles that have to be sorted through, reassigned and 3DSOuted again to rejoin and reweld.  (Remember, I'm only using AutoCAD)

Rhino will solve this problem for me.  Take a typical street intersection for example. You have a roadway, curbs, grass median, mulched plantings, a sidewalk and a lawn.  In Rhino, I can model each as a surface, join the whole thing into a huge polysurface and mesh the polysurface as a single object (all the mesh edges meet perfectly).  When the Rhino mesh is exploded, however, instead of ending up with a screen full of triangles, it explodes into separate polygon meshes corresponding to the original surfaces they were created from.  Ie. a road mesh, separate curb meshes, separate grass meshes, separate walk, mulch and lawn meshes.  Each easily digestible on 3DS export and with absolute edge continuity.

The other thing is that Rhino is great for building landscapes from curve networks, lofted surfaces, edge surfaces and point clouds.  So my thinking is to use Rhino for both the building and immediate landscape modeling, import into Vue, assign materials, populate the Rhino landscape with Vue (Trees,vegitation, rocks etc), insert lighting and use Vue terrains for adjoining ambiance. 

So, now that I understand a little about Vue import scale, my next question would be; Is there a way to set the insert scale of Vue vegetation or objects (such as rocks) globally?  If there is, it should only be a mater of import mesh and landscape, assign materials, populate landscape add terrains and lights, render.  Yes?  Seems like it would go fairly quickly.

I think the next step is to mesh out a Rhino file, burn it, take it over to my friend's business and see if this will work.

Thanks,

Frank        

when you explode (split) a .3ds file mesh in VUE, depending on what exactly you exported, you will get what you say, each mesh on its own layer, dependant on your export options from your 3D modelling program.

I don't think there's a way to globally set the plant objects in VUE, that's why I say, assume Vue units as a certain measure, then, when you import a plant, you can type in it's Z dim. so you know how tall it is, then, knowing what it came in for a Z at default, you can know what ratio you had to scale it to get it to be in feet, etc...

I highly suggest a hybrid of Wabe's and My methods for scaling in VUE.  I hadn't thought of Wabe's before, I wonder if you could just have the 8 points of a corner of a box that surrounds each of your objects, but either way you can just delete it later in VUE.

again, though, VUE really isn't ready for Architects yet.  It will turn your 8 hour project into a 2 week project.

The problem with Vue internal items is that they come from very different sources - and very different time periods of Vue development. So it is not really surprising that they have different scalings, especially because - to say it again - Vue is an illustration program, not an environment simulation one.

However, the "global scaling factor" is definitely something that should go onto the next wishlist - for later Vue versions.

Until then you can do something. You can define basic elements for yourself - terrains, even SolidGrowth plants, etc, and save them in the size you need them further on.

In the latest versions of Infinite, when i have it in mind correctly, you can save scaled plants as species and when you reload them they keep the size you gave them. Maybe you try that out yourself and see. So worst case is that you go through the plant libraries once, scale them once manually, save them as your own species and work with those from then on.

Same with terrains - make some basic terrains in shapes and especially in sizes you need for your day to day work, save them as vob and work with those later. You of course can modify them if you need it with the terrain editor but you do not have to worry about scaling anymore.

My 2cents here as I am not an architect, but  my main modeling app is Rhino and I never use
.3ds meshing for export: I use  Wavefront(.obj )
Additionnally Rhino produces a very clean UV map with .obj  and you avoid the 65k poly limit
IMHO Vue handles .obj much better than other formats.
(Rhino offers over 20 export options among which .lwo  and .wrl which are also accepted in Vue)

However, I have the problem that if I load into Vue an obj file exported from Rhino, the material names/zones are not correctly recognized. I have to import the file into Poser and then into Vue. If Poser can read the obj file correctly, I don't see why Vue can't.

If you disable automatic scaling, 1 Vue unit equals 1 inch. Tested with 3DS export from 3DSMax 6, and with OBJ export from Max.

I NEVER use the automatic scaling option.

svdl,
when I export a .3ds from Sketchup and bring it into V5i,
I exported a 1000' cube
it came in as 12000 vue units... so... you are correct.  But this then is too big to work with in VUE.  I typically work with large models, on the 1/4 to 1/2 mile or more in size... gets KINDA big if 1 unit = 1 inch.

I have started to try to rescale my objects so that 1 VUE unit = 1 foot.... this seems to be better for VUE to handle... but then I have to scale down most stuff by 1/12 or multiply by .08... for some plants to come in at correct scale, but most plants and people or content comes in at all diff. scales for some reason.

if it's off the VUE default grid plane, it disappears from your camera in the preview window and this is very annoying to put it mildly.