Hi !

I think poser 7 should have some nice new effects too.

I mean special effects like glowing, lens flare and a physical correct working particel system.
Poser Physics was a good begining in this way !

Poser 7 should have it's own powerfull object editor like other renderer it have and 'Miki1020', 'Virtual Fashion' & 'Poser Physics' should be direct integrated into poser 7.

Poser 7 should have the possibility to use a surface as a real lightsource. Good for panel lights who emits real light into the scene and equal effects.

Poser 7 should have a good working collision system and a surface following system. Who gives all poser characters the possiblity to climb stairs by their own, without walking through other objects.

Why not give poser 7 the posibbility to use every object in a scene as a soundsource. With the ability for real Dolby Digital AC 3 5.1 animation rendering ?

Poser 7 should have the posibbility to render animation for 3d-glasses without extern solutions.

Best wishes
megaionstorm

Why not give poser 7 the posibbility to use every object in a scene as a soundsource. With the ability for real Dolby Digital AC 3 5.1 animation rendering ? I mean poser 7 should become a amazing good new soundsystem. The cameras of poser 7 a good new virtual surroundsound microfon ! One stereo microfon who is hearing frontward and one stereo microfon who is hearing backward. Integrated into the poser 7 cameras. Then the microfon can follow all movements of the camera.

Argh !!! 

I have hardly used most of the advance features in my Poser 6, and now, Poser 7 ?!

I think I shall crawl back under the covers and use Poser Artist, for which I still have a valid and legitimate license.  So what if my runtime under it is 4 terabytes large....

I never have used Poser Artist in my life. Don't know it !

Poser Artist = Poser 4

: )

Wow, all those extra features, sounds great, and just think, for only $10.00. Why in a couple of years we can get rid of all those high end programs.

There are a lot of renderer in the market who has equal functions like cinema4d, truespace and other. I think poser should have them too ! With the possibility that poser reaches a greater market segment.

Your right, but then look at the difference in the price tag. you can ask for the world, but do you want to pay for it. Cinama and Truespace are different programs that can do pretty much what poser can do,  so why use poser.

There is no doubt that Poser can improved  in so many areas, as with Every 3D type of program can be improved. But look at the price tag on Truespace's new release. The price tag is about 3 times what I bought Truespace 5 for. Look at Poser 7. About the same price I paid for Poser 4. Look at what you got in Poser 4 and what you can do in Poser 7.

Asking is easy, producing is another matter.

Yes, but every new poser release need it's own new ideas ! I give only my idea to the pool, other persons must decide if the want use them or not !

I think my suggestions are good stuff for poser addon producers too !

The big problem is you're asking for high-end upgrades to a midmarket/hobbyist product. Cinema 4D, which you mention as a comparison, costs $895 for the basic software - if you want to have the version which does everything, then C4D v10 costs a scary $3,495!  They are also completely different types of program - Poser is a figure manipulation program, whereby everything in it is third-aprty objects (or stuff youve made yourself in another application) - there is nothing inside Poser which was built in Poser*. Cinema 4D, on the other hand, as well as most of the other packages you mention there, are primarily modelers. Sure, you could use them in the same way as you do Poser, buying other people's product and simply placing it in a scene, but it kind of means you're missing out on a huge section of what they were designed for.

(Please note, by the way, that I'm not attacking Poser or putting it down for being 'only' a manipulation package. Poser does a good job of what it does - I use it a fair amount, just as I do C4D - but it is a specialist niche, rather than a general purpose program.)

You are right that Poser COULD add in all the features that you get in Maya, C4D, or 3DS Max... but then you'd probably end up with something that costs a similar amount, instead of the much more reasonable price of $250 that they're offering a new version for now (assuming you're buying new - it's not even that if you're ugrading!).

jonthecelt.

*Yes, I now you COULD build something out of the primitive, and some brave/insanely obsessed people have done some fantastic models doing just that - but that's not what they were designed for.

The kind of stuff you’re asking for could appear in version 10 - but for goodness sake let’s get Poser doing some of the basic things it’s still having trouble with. A new rigging system is much more important, as I for one want to be able to raise the arms of a figure without the shoulders looking weird. Once figures look and move correctly then maybe some of the stuff you’re asking for could be implemented but not before – Poser needs to at least earn the title semi professional before any high end features are added and that’s a long way off.

I bet nothing got fixed. I bet in Poser 7, you will still have weird looking knee bends, etc. Why do they keep so secretive in their site, ...they have a section that says 6 reasons to buy poser 7 . However when you go for the 7th reason...it says something about not being able to reveal that, that you must be a member in their list or something. Anyways, i'm buying it. later on. If i see it's good

Quote - I bet nothing got fixed.

I know alot of things got fixed

Quote -  I bet in Poser 7, you will still have weird looking knee bends,

I doubt there is a new rigging/joint system, even if there was and they were able to maintain backward compatability your current figures will not be "fixed" until the makers update them and that would break almost all of the items built for them

Quote -   etc. Why do they keep so secretive in their site, ...they have a section that says 6 reasons to buy poser 7 . However when you go for the 7th reason...it says something about not being able to reveal that, that you must be a member in their list or something. Anyways, i'm buying it. later on. If i see it's good

It's advertising. they are slowly giving out new features until the release date. the e-mail list only gets you an email of the next feature the night before it is posted. If you watch the forums you can usually find someone posting the e-mail when they get it.

dont wait too long, once they release it you won't be able to get the "special edition" with the extra content.

tebop, they've ony released the first five reasons so far. It's called a teaser campaign. 6 and 7 arent' available to ANYONE, whether on their mailing list or not. Being on the mailng list will keep you informed of when the last two come out, however.

As to 'weird looking knee bend, etc.', as you put it... if you want a Poser body to move and bend totally realistically, then you're asking tyhem to implement a combined skeletal, musculature, fat deposit and skin system similar to what PDI used in Shrek 1 & 2... wanna guess how much that kind of technology would cost out of the box?

jonthecelt

11/9/06

Folks:

EF has several problems in developing Poser and any other software. A very large challenge is keeping up with hardware and operating system developments. The computer industry has hundreds of thousands of engineers, and Microsoft and Apple have tens of thousands of software writers continually working to increase the power of computers. How many employees does EF have working on Poser? Probably they have a dozen or less and not all fulltime. By the time an upgraded package gets to market, it can be a generation or two behind the latest hardware/operating system innovations.

On the other hand improved hardware can put a lot of power at the disposal of a programmer that can help a program with marginal performance be more functional, and operating system developers frequently have powerful (pricey) programming tools to help programmers revamp old software. EF probably has to struggle not to fall too far behind the cutting edge of the top end computers.

The larger computer software developers have hundreds of employees working on writing powerful and expensive graphics packages. These companies are constantly expanding the capabilities of their software packages. EF customers will ask for features they see in other packages, and some of these will be inordinately difficult and expensive to accomplish. Many possible features, however, will be reasonable to work toward. Customers, when they make suggestions and ask for features contribute to the development process, but the skill of EF’s programmers, difficulty of implementation, and the interests/taste of the design team will also effect the finished product. The customers and design team will even think of a few things that will not be available in other packages.

Yesterday’s and today’s blockbuster features are today’s and tomorrow’s old stuff. What may seem now to be too much to hope for could be so common as to be mandatory in an update or new version or EF could lose market share. Poser 5, and Poser 6, both had innovations that improved realism in the figures. There has been no real advance in Poser/DAZ figures for three to four years now (G2 is not much of an improvement). Sooner or later it will have to be done. Why shouldn’t customers ask for improved rigging and realism and software developers strive for it. EF may be happy to allow DAZ or other content providers to set the standards in this area, and follow after with figures that are frankly inferior, or they may decide to up the ante for realism themselves. One way or another, one company or another will do it, and thereby get ahead.

Content providers will always be playing the catch up game, and fixing content that new innovations broke. It is the nature of progress. The market is oversaturated with V3/S3/A3 hair, clothes, textures, and accessories. There is not nearly enough for most of the other figures, but some creative people have figured out ways to make some of this content work with other figures. Sooner or later the market will get so saturated with support for the present figures that content providers will be crying for figures that are improved enough to open new markets for them.

This upgrade version of Poser looks to be a major one with some improvements being accomplished that many seasoned Poser users did not think would be offered this time around. There is no reason to believe that the seven installments of meager information will be exhaustive. We will not know how good Poser 7 will be until we get it, break it by trying things that the beta testers did not think about, and EF fixes it with several service releases. I have my ticket for this ride already ordered. And when, by the way, will Poser 8 be coming out?

LMK

Quote - As to 'weird looking knee bend, etc.', as you put it... if you want a Poser body to move and bend totally realistically, then you're asking tyhem to implement a combined skeletal, musculature, fat deposit and skin system similar to what PDI used in Shrek 1 & 2... wanna guess how much that kind of technology would cost out of the box?

jonthecelt

Or they could just impliment something like this to start...

CG Skin

The technology is quite simple in comparison to what you suggest, and would greatly improve a character's ability to bend joints and twist limbs correctly.

The non-linear animation and dual-proc capability alone is worth the price of 7. I haven't upgraded since 5, but will definitely get 7.

And the quality of renders since the addition of IBL  has been remarkable. I now render most human subjects in Poser instead of Cinema, then composite in After Effects. Big packages like C4D still can't handle the material system of Poser very well at all.

Quote - Or they could just impliment something like this to start...

CG Skin

sure, its only another $195.00 added to the cost.

I have been defending Poser because I think it is an excellent program. not the top of the line. I think that if they could implament the CG skin for  $195. as an addon to their standard package price, that would be great idea. I have no idea what actual price would actually be.

Untill Poser 7 animation had the smallest porportion of people using that aspect of its capabilities. I suspect that that crowd will grow with Poser 7 with its new animation improvements. I think it would be unfair for the rest  of the crowd to pay the extra $195. added on for something they weren't interested in.

I myself use poser 90% of the time for animation purposes. That would be something I would be glad to get as a plug in at that price. Just a thought, and I know anyone that does animation would gladly support if they would be realistic in there demands in all the stuff they want into poser.

Yes, some of my suggested features are high end features. Thinks like glowing, lens flare and a physical correct working particel system should not be to hard to realize. The lens flare effect could be post worked rendered. The particel system could be realized in a expanded 'Poser Physics' version !

A new soundsystem could be a poser addon version. Who must be single purchased.

3d glasses rendering is a little more as a simple overlay rendering of two pictures, with different camera angels. But not much more.

Sigh...broken record time:

In Poser 6 you can make things glow and use objects as a light source:

Do searches on probelight and gather nodes.

My feeling is most of what is wanted will come, If anyone thinks that they are holding back implamenting these features just because they are not putting forth the effort or what ever, that would be foolish.

I think what EF is trying to do is put in the features they hear on the peoples wish list and taking on what they can do within a certain frame work when they think they have enough of these features warrent an new upgrade. I also think what they are doing is trying to implament these extra freatures so as to not price them selves out of the already established market. If they get there program out and correct any updates needed they can move on to the next set of features.

To wholesale create all these new features wholesale, and scrap what they have would be suicide. You can't just change the exsititing rigging so that all the charactures with all there clothing are obsolete. Not all, but a large percentange of the people are happy with most of what poser has to offer.

It's like you only have the money and the room for a macineshop that can only tool up to make one or another product, you had decided to make tricycles, and later you decide you want to make bicycles instead, now you have to scrap the tricycicles and retool for bicycles instead. Well that's great for the ones wanting bicycles, but you lost the tricicle market.  Now you are the new kid on the block and have to compete with all the other established companies that make bicycles. You are starting from scratch.

Believe me, if there wasn't a good reason for EF not to rerig the figures and add all the extras, you would have them asap. There is no doubt about it ,that the rigging is an older  tech. I'm an animator, and what they have the biggest short commings are within animation, with there rigging. Your learn your craft, and you will get the results you want, it just might take a litlle longer than with the high tech programs.

Take a look at all the people that use Poser now, They have room to improve, yes! but they must be doing something right . The whole process is much more complicated than, just lets ad all these new features. Just look at the new features in animation they have added. sound simple, but if it is that simple, the people that seem to thing so, are missing there calling and show EF how easy it is do.

Quote - > Quote - Or they could just impliment something like this to start...

CG Skin

sure, its only another $195.00 added to the cost.

 You are looking at creating software as if it has the same cost per unit as other items like cars.  It costs so much to build each car.  On top of that you have the costs of designing it.  Then you ad your profit and you get your price. 

With software there is no or a negligible cost to building each software item sold.   People can download it.  So all you have to do is distribute the cost of designing it over the number of copies you expect to sell.  If, it costs $x to make this software, you build in a profit and take (x+ a profit) divided by the number of copies you expect to sell, and that should be your price.   So unless you know how many copies you expect to sell you can't know what the price would or should be. 

Now when we look at CG skin we know that the makers can only sell it to people who use 3dsmax 6,7,or 8.  So first you seperate out the people who use those versions of 3ds max and then, of those 3ds max users,  you seperate out only those who will want that particular product.  

If this same technology cost the same to put in Poser then EF* would price it somewhere around the cost of development plus some profit divided by the number of copies of poser they expect to sell.  If they expect to sell 100xs as many copies of poser7 than the makers of CG skin expect to sell thier product then the added cost to poser would only increase $1.95.

If on the other hand, EF expected to sell 100xs fewer copies as the makers of CG skin then they would have to charge an extra $19,500.00 per copy.  

All I am saying is you can not look at how much a feature costs in one progam and assume it woudl cost the same if put in poser.

*Yes I assumed it woudl cost the same for EF to put it in poser as the makers of cg skin to put it in 3dsmax.  Thsi assumption could be wrong.  If it costs more then the price in poser will have to go up.  If it cost less then the price in poser coudl be lower.  That variable is really beside the overall point.

Actually, a simpler solution, albeit perhaps not the best, would be to implement a form of weight mapping instead of using the split model/adjust joint zone method. With weight mapping, there's no need to break the model into seperate objects, which would cut down on the wierdness at extreme poses and couple that with the fact you can paint in how much an area is affected when moved then you'd have a joint zone killer on your hands. It's old technology I'd love to see in Poser some day but who knows what's in store for us in Poser 7, eh?

Quote - Actually, a simpler solution, albeit perhaps not the best, would be to implement a form of weight mapping instead of using the split model/adjust joint zone method. With weight mapping, there's no need to break the model into seperate objects, which would cut down on the wierdness at extreme poses and couple that with the fact you can paint in how much an area is affected when moved then you'd have a joint zone killer on your hands. It's old technology I'd love to see in Poser some day but who knows what's in store for us in Poser 7, eh?

Yes, weight map painting tools would be a logical next step toward more realistic bending of joints in Poser, and there's absolutely no reason it couldn't be implimented in the program along side the current rigging method.  This way, all the users moaning about not wanting to lose their investment in older items could have the best of both worlds so to speak.  Lots of applications use more than one option to rig figures (3dsmax, for instance, has standard rigid bones or parametric biped skeletons with two skinning methods available - "skin", which uses more advanced weight mapping techniques, and "physique", which is sort of similar to the falloff zone method Poser uses).  This would allow for a slow progression toward the "newer" rigging methods in Poser, while the older ones get phased out over time.  Everyone wins.

We have two reasons to go......

If Poser 7 had an improvement in joints, and we get actual bones that dont distort knees or elbows.. I would buy it, but i kind of doubt that it will have anything as such. I'm sure the features it has are RENDER related OR and improvement speed of the program, not improvements in the models or the way they are constructed. That sux but hey.... i'm just a pOser using poser. to pose girls, men and babies. Posed by me, posed by you. posing posers all day long. : )

Quote - "We have two reasons to go......"

This say less than nothing !

They allready had mentioned poser7 renders faster, up to 4 times faster if you have a dual core processor. Since I am big in animation, I like the Talk designer potential, although there sample was not that impressive, I have to think that it is better than what was shown. I also like the new animation advances. 

I think the 2nd reason went over the Render advancements. With different ways to render for individual taste, You might go back over the reasons to see what they have already went over so far. I suspect that the next two items are completetly different. I can't imagine that the last two are any less eye poping in relation to Posers of the past.

I know a person that has ran it through the ropes as a betta tester, He was completely hush, hush, about it, but metioned how stable it was. All I know is how excited he was about what he could do with it.

It's a fun app for sure.

;)

Quote - Quote - "We have two reasons to go......"

This say less than nothing !

No, it says that there are still what they consider two major reasons for buying P7 that we still do not know about at this time. And considering how many times that network rendering and some form of rigging improvement has been nailed to the tops of all the lists (and are in fact the -most- requested new features), we may yet be surprised.

If they improve on the lights more than they already did in P6, I'll be a happy bunny.
If they do away with the atrocious shadow cams... oh my!

Thanks for the Digital Magic Gallery Link. One gallery more in the international world !