Indeed. Check the list of morphs http://www.daz3d.com/store/item_file/4781/1.html and you'll see the eggs aren't there, only the nest.. Typical trick I'd say. Finally V4 will cost a normal price, but you'll have paid it in parts. And everyone who gets basicV4 will pay for the rest. All you need is cash.

kuroyume0161 - aprilysh managed to figure out how to remap a figure before she was a merchant.  the free maya doll has a v3 mapping.  and mayax was extremely ill for a time.  g.i.r.l. was released with a v3 mapping because they knew  everyone wouldn't just buy a bunch of new textures.  i don't see why the people at daz would be abnormally taxed by providing a v3 mapping, especially when they took a whole year to do this and were a team of people.   i would say it's not a cost efficient use of their time because they know people will just buy a bunch of new textures.  and most won't complain about it.  but there's no way you can convince me that the totally unassociated g.i.r.l. was easier to remap, or that mayax is way more capable than a team of salaried 3d artists. 

Quote - just to check, you did notice that  all the morphs aren't there?  that is, from what i've read (i'm holding out till end of the sale at least), your $35 doesn't include the individual muscle morphs or ethnicity morphs v3 did.  they'll be separate and additional sets from (again, from what i've read).   i wouldn't be surprised if there's a talking/phoneme set as well.

 

Actually, the full-body morphs seem to be there:

BodyBuilder
Definition
Fitness
Amazon (heh)
Emaciated
Thin
Young
Voluptous
Bulk
PearFigure
Heavy

...may not be an exact match to V3, but seems reasonable.  On the ethnic morphs, there are a few head character morphs that give some basic ethnicities, but I think Daz spoiled themselves with the Ethnic pack they did for V3 (more $$), so it doesn't really surprise me to not see a ton of those in the morph pack (I suspect that a V4 Ethnic pack is in development as we speak).

For the most part I find V4 a huge improvement on V3, and with time (and products) she will probably be amazing.  I picked up the Pro Pack and I'm loving some of the new features.

As of now, though, she is not a replacement for V3.  She does not have the same flexibility.  V3 has her eyes mapped separately, for example, if you want to make one eye blue and one orange, it is really not a big deal with V3.  V4 has her Left and Right eye maps in one material zone.  You literally have to go in a and paint the texture map to get the same effect!

No Alien Head morphs, no oddbal character morphs (ie: gargoyle, hag, etc..)  I never used those morphs out of the box, but I have plenty of V3 renders that you may never know it, but a .085 of some weird character is in there. 

No phenomes!?  WTF?  I'm sorry, but I have free characters from Daz that came with Phenomes.  This is a huge disappointment.  The only reason I got into using Poser characters is for animation.  This should not be in an add on pack, this should have been part of the Pro Pack and the very least, but moreso, it should have been part of the Base figure.  Just a huge disappointment.

Anyone who is having trouble finding some of the features, though (like the grasp hands and such) make certain you didn't download both the Base and one of the full packages.  There is a file name that is apparently the same, and the obj is the same, but the cr2 is different.  I understand this can cause some trouble.

The expressions are amazing, but too few and by this time next year it is going to be really easy to play, "guess the expression morph" in the galleries.  A shame.

Well, I'm off to play some more....

right.  but no triceps, hamstrings, etc.  all but a few of the the muscle (not muscularity) morphs are absent.  the morphs you mention are a bare base coat on the characters i dial.  the list is much more than not an exact match, it's not 1/2 the morphs i routinely use.

this actually explains my feeling that the morph previews were oddly lacking real diversity.

the ethnic pack for v3 was great for the textures.  the morphs were... less so.  

and capsces hasn't come out with her set, either.

as a customer, i see the ala carte method as a minus (because it always means less for more money), but i also feel like i've only seen a bare tip of what's possible with v4.

Just to clarify, I didn't list all the morphs.. the full list is here.

also to clarify, i know that.  that's where i was looking.  the link is posted above your post, but not as a link (so thanks!).

I am irritated at the name they gave the morph pack, that's mostly it.  The V3 "Full Morphs" are much, much more complete than the V4 "Full Morphs++".  It's not like I wouldn't have bought the morph kit, but they shouldn't have named to make it sound like it's an improvement over the V3 kit of the same name, when in fact it's a lot less functional.

edit:  well, except for the boobie morphs, those are spiff.

I'm with you Cobaltdream!

The lack of muscular morphs when I paid for a Morph pak is a complete oversight on Daz's part. Like what the heck were they thinking? Also, why can't we scale specific body-parts anymore?

Likewise, I don't think Daz has been paying much attention to the community as of late: they should have added another foot bone, (aka  EF characters), it makes for far better foot posing and animation weighting.

All in all, I'm not impressed with V4.  I incorporated many of these 'new V4 features' into my characters ages ago: nothing evolutionary here.

Sorry, V4 is just a big let-down IMHO.

As far as V3 to V4 clothes....

I've had mixed results with WW, but Phil C does have another product called OBJ2CR2 file converter. I'm sure he will have V4 supported soon enough which will allow content creator to quickly convert many of their pieces. (they will have to resize them of course, but this is usually a quick process).

Quote - @  **Blackhearted

**Here is to hoping you do a GND style character with her!

/drink

-G

Oh my god, yes.  GND 2 is my favorite all time v3 morph.

Now for my early impressions on V4.  Posing her with her arms in the air, she no longer looks 'broken'.  Thank GOD.  She's very different and will take some getting used to.  To those worried about clothes, remember when V3 was released?  She had .. a bikini.  From reading the threads at Daz, the vendors have been hard at work and I am betting many, many more things will be released over the days to come.

Where V3 was a marked improvement (in my opinion anyway) over V2, V4 is an improvement over V3.  The major drawback right now is the eyebrows.  Daz should have included a mask that could be applied and then changed in the material setting.  Any texture artists who are working on V4, please take that piece of advice to heart.  Please give us the option to change the eyebrows and don't just paint the eyebrows on.  Please, please, please.  It is one of my biggest pet peeves with V3 textures.

V4 is definitely different.  I remember how people complained and complained and resisted switching to V3.  Now you hardly see any V2 figures out there.  It will take time to adjust, just as it did with V3.

Quote - Also, why can't we scale specific body-parts anymore?

 

Can't you?  I thought I tried that yesterday morning and it worked, but I'm not completely sure.

Well. here's a quickie render. For me, the chief disappointment is that the Base is short of morphs compared to V3. Just expression morphs, not even a basic "spandex" morph. Posing seems a bit better, but I can see mmyself having to do a lot of digging to find out what the new features are. DAZ have not improved the usefulness of their read-me files. It would be an irritation, but no more, if they'd included links to a full user-manual on their website. Not even having that goes beyopnd irritating. The hair, incidentally, is by Kozaburo. V3 hair does need some tweaking, and the tweaks suggest the head is a bit bigger. Partly, it's a metter of taste, but I felt V3's head was a little small. You can't satisfy everyone. Amongst the things I've noticed, the tongue seems to be a lot more complicated--multiple body parts rather than morphs for movement. Could this be a problem for Mimic users? Right now, my reaction is a bit, "So what?" There seems to be something lurking underneath, but DAZ could do better at explaining things.

I am waiting till I see Sydney, I have a funny feeling that Sydney is going to be as good as V4, but because she does not have the name, it may fall.  But will wait till P7 is here.  Sharen

I've heard Sydney is just Jessi with a different head shape and Simon is just James with a different head shape.  Probably the G2 versions of said characters, but still, don't get your hopes up.

Mind you, we could all be pleasantly surprised...

I sure hope Poser 7 is not as big of a disappointment as V4 is so far.  (No Phenomes... I just can't believe it...)

Umm, everyone knows that it was the same way when there was the transition to V3 from V2 right?  This is nothing new.  If you want a more advanced figure, you have to let go!  That or stick with V3.  When V3 came out, I used V2 all the way until A3 came out, then finally let go.  Even then, I still use V2 for established characters.

(the above paragraph excludes the V3toV2, and V4toV3 figures, which I never really liked anyhow)

That being said, V4 grouped morphs are a dream along with the full face morphs.  I am very much so looking forward to some fantasy style clothes for her.

-G

PS I am not a shill for DAZ, it just seems that people do not remember the transition from V2 to V3.

V4 is the best version of Victoria ever.

Pros:

• The default figure without morphs is actually attractive looking.
• She is no longer a pinhead.
• She bends like a real person. Without extra buttock parts (this is very likely accomplished via morphs).
• Her ears and breasts no longer look like they were the result of a boolean operation.
• The texture sets include materials actually optimized for Poser's current rendering engine.
• The expression morphs look much more natural.

Cons:

• Most of the character morphs are downright awful IMHO.
• A couple of the expression morphs are unnatural looking.
• Additional content must be purchased to use a few of the new figure enhancements.

I have hated V3 ever since I downloaded her (I'm very glad I waited until she was free, since I've barely ever used her). Her head looks like it's made out of mud, she has those same horrible boolean breasts and ears as V1/2, and she's actually less enjoyable to work with than V1/2. The only thing I did like about her never did me any good: her UV layout.

Viva la V4!

Gazukull, I appreciate your point on this. DAZ do have a tutorial buried on their site. I suspect they've tried to be too clever with their site design, and used some browser-dependent Java when a simple HTML link would have done the same job. Poser and Poser models seem to be an area of computing where the manufacturers think a list of features is an explanation, and the poor sods like us who are paying have to work out the details for ourselves. And that's one reason why we're reluctant to let go of the past. We're waiting for somebody to explain the new. I've probably already wasted half a day looking in the wrong places on V4.

@ R_Hatch

Very good summary.  That was basically my findings so far on V4.

@ AntoniaTiger

There didn't seem to be a tutorial I found so far... but I am sure there will be on tutorial arcana.  But V4 seems to be simple enough... now I am just content crazy!

-G

12/9/06

It looks to me that V4 was rushed to market. Maybe they wanted to keep up with Poser 7 and steal a little of the thunder from EF's release, and maybe they wanted to beat the Christmas buying season.

Not having the specific muscle morphs, and scaling ability leaves V4 unable to express the same diveristy as V3. Would it have killed them to give us one set of decent cloths for her?

LMK

I´m looking forward to the updates, until then I will not use her in my renders! Some example of distortion, The pose is one of the included in the V4 Bundle...

Another one!

I am checking the bodypart scaling just now, and it is really odd - most bodyparts are scaleable, but some are not.  In almost all cases where there is a scale slider, it is only all three axes at once (one funny exception though!)  List of things that cannot be scaled appears to be:
Chest
Neck (there is a "thickness" morph though)
Head
Face parts (although 6 joints of the tongue can be z-scaled!  O_O !!  )
Collars
Hands and fingers cannot be separately scaled (I really don't like that, all V4s will have the exact same hands??)
Toes (rather irritated at that too)

Everything else has one x+y+z scale slider or another slider that does the same thing (e.g. feet).  I'm guessing the reason for this was the morphforms, but I don't know enough to understand why.

Although V4 can look good in a simple stand up pose!

@ lkendall,

On scaling body parts - The morphform dials do not meet that need?

@ rofocale,

What version of poser are you using?

You have to have poser 6.0.1 in order to use V4 effectively.

And with some clothes on(Included in the Bundle) and her standard rexture!

No buyer's remorse here, I like her. Only thing that bothers me are the hires maps compared to the standard ones. There is a tiny difference but not enough to warrant the price. I think once everyone starts working with her they will like her. Remember the hoopla when V3 came out? lol

**Gazukull
**I still play around in Poser PP!

@ all

For instance, using the morphforms to bend her torso is looks much better than using the bend / twist dials.  I am thinking much of the problems that people are having has much to do with not changing the way they think, even posing V4 is different..

@ rofocale,

Methinks that's why her butt is crinkling on you :)

V4 is the battlefield 2 of figures, she has high requirements.

So have I, that´s why I will keep on using my e-frontier/DAZ hybrids, even after buying P7:)

@ rofocale,

I think P7 should be okie.  I dunno, I guess we all find out monday!!!!

Finally put my dual core to use!  Well, bryce uses dual core...

Well to use in poser :DDDD

-G

Quote - I've heard Sydney is just Jessi with a different head shape and Simon is just James with a different head shape.  Probably the G2 versions of said characters, but still, don't get your hopes up.

Mind you, we could all be pleasantly surprised...

I sure hope Poser 7 is not as big of a disappointment as V4 is so far.  (No Phenomes... I just can't believe it...)

the poser 7 female is sydney.  the poser 7 male is simon.  both are g2 figures, female and male respectively.  g2 figures share the same body across the genders but have custom heads.  the g2 females seem to have as little to do with jessi as v4 does.  jessi might have a g2 form, but her body is entirely different.  check out the preview threads at content paradise.  some of the stuff daz recently announced for v4 (like magnets instead of jcms, and clothes that support them) g2 figures already do.

if the bending and shape previews are anywhere near on target, i'm already pleased with her.  and i think her facial previews look much preferable to v4's.  i expect to like them both in the very long run, with v4 being more generic looking.

oh, and these lacks aren't oversights. they're the ala carte marketing method that d|s and v3 established.  it's easier to get people to keep paying for add-ons than it is to get them to pay a large lump sum for twice as much content.  i think (from what i've read) ethnic morphs will be an add-on, and muscularity morphs, and speech and (more) expression morphs, etc.

12/9/06

Gazukull:

Metamorphs will not give individual control to the X, Y, or Z scaling morph of a particular body part. If I want a body part scaled larger in the Z-axis but not X or Y-axis, I can not do this unless there are dials to allow it, and they are enabled. Except for the breasts and face, a lot of the ability to express diversity is not there. There is everything one needs to pose V4 for standard cheesecake scenes.

One of the criticisms about the G2 figures is that they lack diversity. There are general, but not specific body morphs. E-Frontier expected people to use the Face Room to modify the face, but there is no corresponding Body Room. The Paintbrush morphs seems to be a response to this criticism.

It will be interesting to hear if DAZ intends to produce more morphs. I will wait for some confirmation from them before spending money on this bundle. Poser 7 will be enough to keep my interest for a long time.

LMK

Quote - @ lkendall,

On scaling body parts - The morphform dials do not meet that need?

No they do not - people's hands vary almost as much as people's faces do, they aren't 100% identical in shape and the scale of the parts.  This is a big minus and it needs to be fixed.

@ lkendall & pjz99,

Ahh, I see.  That being said... would imagine that hacking the cr2 would unlock those dials.  Scaling is a function of poser?  I imagine that daz was thinking "who uses that?" and cut it out.  This is all purely speculation.

I agree the cheesecake crew (that would include me) are very happy atm.

-G

Seems pretty obvious to me it's just about priorities - 26 boobie morphs (the adorable AreolaPerk among them) but nobody thinks about a girl with long fingers?  MEN WRITE THIS SOFTWARE DON'T THEY?  >:(

Well as a first impression, I'm happy, there seems plenty to play around with, and will be even better once Poser 7 is out.

12/9/06

Gazukull:

I am not proficient at hacking into cr2 files on my own, but with clear instructions.....

LMK

When V3 was released she actually had FEWER clothes (she had a bikini, woo hoo).  She also did not have the full compliment of morphs she has now, though I do seem to recall the full musculature morphs being available.  She also only had two texture sets at the time.  The vendor added stuff came fairly quickly but they released V3 with a lot less than V4 has been released with.  Honestly, most of the same complaints about V4 were being made about V3 when she was first released.  The poser community complained ad nauseum.  Now most of them can't get enough of V3.

Don't like what's included in V4?  Don't buy it yet.  Vote with your wallet.  Nobody can please everyone.  There are going to be people who are completely happy with V4 and others who won't be.  Such is life.  :)

Quote - 12/9/06

It looks to me that V4 was rushed to market. Maybe they wanted to keep up with Poser 7 and steal a little of the thunder from EF's release, and maybe they wanted to beat the Christmas buying season.

Not having the specific muscle morphs, and scaling ability leaves V4 unable to express the same diveristy as V3. Would it have killed them to give us one set of decent cloths for her?

LMK

Quote - @ AntoniaTiger

There didn't seem to be a tutorial I found so far... but I am sure there will be on tutorial arcana.  But V4 seems to be simple enough... now I am just content crazy!

On content, I've got usable results with V2 items, using the Shift function in Wardrobe Wizard. I'm beginning to think that the Base figure, currently free for the Platinum Club, is useless as a sample of what the model can do. Too many things are missing. As for the tutorial, it's awkward to get to from the default V4 promo page. Try this URL: http://www.daz3d.com/support/tutorial/tutorial.php?id=1942

12/9/065

MoxieGraphix:

I am voting with my wallet. That is why I have not bought $V4 yet. I would have bought her, and would have been disappointed, except for the posts on this forum.

The Internet has changed things since DAZ rolled out V3. People can fully analyze a product and post reviews within minutes of the product’s release. The product’s virtues and flaws can be discussed and the consumer can be better informed.

I hadn't discovered DAZ and 3D graphics when V3 was first intorduced. Yes, DAZ has done this before, and yes customers were disappointed, and yes you all survived it. Humans have an almost infinite capacity to learn, except when it comes to doing business.

PhilC expects to have WW and Clothing Designer Modules updated in a few days. That may take care of the clothing problem. Fortunately I already own WW. How about the missing morphs, who will supply those, and when?

V3 is much more versatile at the moment, and Poser 7 will give me enough to do for a while. V4 will have to wait until the product is more complete. I am sure I will know when that happens, because of the frank discussions available on this forum.

LMK

They'll be provided when DAZ decides to release them, of course(and it's been stated they will be released).  It's really not all that hard to wait.  It's like Christmas, it will get here eventually.  I guess, I do enough nekkid pictures that waiting around for clothing and what not isn't a huge issue.  Also, not releasing everything at once is actually easier on my budget, especially with Christmas and other purchases.  I suppose, I just think there are worse things that could happen then the lack of a few clothes and some morphs is all.  Plus, this is deja vu for many of us. :)

Nobody, least of all me, is arguing whether or not  V3 is more versatile.  OF COURSE she is.  Just look at the thousands and thousands of dollars worth of crap available for her.  It took years and years to get this kind of content built up for V3.  I do not expect V4 to replace V3 in my runtime anytime in the near future and maybe not ever.  There's too much I like about her.

By the by, I knew V3 would replace V2 for me in a heartbeat, it was just a matter of time.  As much as I like V4, I don't expect the same results.

Looking at the morph forms, I just played with her hands a little.  You can change the hands size bigger or smaller OR you can change just the palm, bigger or smaller.  You are right though, there seems no way to make the individual fingers bigger or smaller but, at least the hand size can be adjusted with morph forms.  I don't know how helpful it is for you in this case.

Quote - I am checking the bodypart scaling just now, and it is really odd - most bodyparts are scaleable, but some are not.  In almost all cases where there is a scale slider, it is only all three axes at once (one funny exception though!)  List of things that cannot be scaled appears to be:
Chest
Neck (there is a "thickness" morph though)
Head
Face parts (although 6 joints of the tongue can be z-scaled!  O_O !!  )
Collars
Hands and fingers cannot be separately scaled (I really don't like that, all V4s will have the exact same hands??)
Toes (rather irritated at that too)

Everything else has one x+y+z scale slider or another slider that does the same thing (e.g. feet).  I'm guessing the reason for this was the morphforms, but I don't know enough to understand why.

Daz always gives a full 30 days to get your money back. People were able to fully analyze V3 as well and they still bought her. I have never had a problem getting a refund from Daz if I didn't like or couldn't use an item. I got V4 and am glad I did. Just got the email from 3Dreams that he updated all of his hair products to fit her. I think there will be a ton of support for her. Sheeesh she just got here!

> Quote - v3 textures don't work on the v4 to v3 character any more than v2 textures worked on the v3 to v2 character.

Er...V2 textures do work on V3-to-V2.  V3-to-V2 is mapped like V1/2. 

My first thought on seeing V4 was that she looked like Jessi.  Longer legs, stomach definition, larger head, huge feet.  Over all, more of a fashion model look than V3. 

I like the larger head.  Like many, I've been scaling up V3's head for years.  I don't like the "lollipop" look of anorexic Hollywood actresses, either, but V3 is really a pinhead.  Compare to her to actual human women, and you'll see her head is way too small.

Expressions are also improved, IMO.  Not as good as the e-Frontier figures, but better than V3. 

My feeling is that this is a transitional figure.  The Jessi-ish grouping is in anticipation of weight-based rigging.  The lack of head morphs is because advanced morphing tools will let you make your own. 

Overall, I'm happy with her.  I paid less than $15 for the pro bundle, with the various discounts and vouchers I had.  It's worth it.

Hoping wyrmmaster will get hold of her.

V4's face has actually reminded me a lot more of Aiko 3 than Jesse in some instances.  I'm attaching a picture of the character morph I did last night just playing around.  In others, she hasn't struck me as any figure in particular though she did remind me of Christy Turlington at one point when I was fiddling with the dials.

does he make products anymore?  the last place i saw his work was rdna, and his last product was from march.  for some reason, i'd gotten the impression he'd left the field, which i know would disappoint many people (so i hope he's still around and doing well).  personally, i find his style too unreal.  i'm hoping for posermatic goodness.

i apologize, i remember v3 to v2 being shown with v3 textures and being told that it didn't take v2 textures.  just tested and that's completely wrong, and you're completely right.  there's some issues i'm encountering with different mat poses, but the mapping seems flawless.  which makes me want a remapped v4 even more.  not only have i not seen one texture i find on par with my present v3 textures, there are several i'd like to buy still.

If Sydney is a decent looking and working figure... V4 goes back.

I do wonder how many others are thinking the same way.
We'll find out on Monday and I bet so will Daz.

I know a lot of the scaling options were removed because they didn't work as well with them implemented (much to my vocal annoyance) so they had a reason. It just kind of sucks.