1.  I wanted a brand new model that is exactly the same as an older model!  But better!

2.  It's been 48 hours since release, why aren't there 300 different clothing models, 20 hair styles, 15 morph packs and 1000 texture sets available yet?!

3.  Why aren't there as many merchants supporting a model out for two days as there is for a model that's been out for 4 years?

But seriously, V3 was released on December 19th, 2002.  Shall we take a look into the timestream and see some of the things people were saying back then?  I mean, nothing but praise, right?  (Names omitted.)

*I'm staring at about $2000 worth of Vicki clothes and textures and pose files I've got on about ten CD's which came from either DAZ or Renderosity. What I'm hearing is that most of those clothes won't work without major tweaking and that I have to manually UV map all my textures. What about the pose files?"
                                                    

**
I thought i'd buy vicki 3 sense i had a tiny bit of cash. So, I bought the vicki 3 base and high texture contour pack. Turns out it was a waste of my money.

Vicki 3 Base pack comes with Jack for morphs, You can not copy any of the Victoria 2 Morphs over to the Vicki 3 Model because she is spliced up differently.

Personally i find myself discusted, I was figuring it would at least come with some 'Base Morphs' like the first victoria when it was release Way back when but Nope. All you get is a 'Spandex' morph for the body, and facial morphs. You get absolutely No morphs for minipulating the body Form other the 'Spandex'.

If your planning on Buying Vicki 3, while her jointing and the higher mesh do make her a bit more flexable - You better Grab The Morph packs for the Face and Body or you'll be sitting in a cold dark room with nothing to work with. This is by far The Worst release i've seen from daz.
                                                                                         

And not even as Flexable as the Vicki 1 Model when it comes to shaping the body... go figure... scam job?

*I find this new vicki difficult to use. It clouds my library with so many folders and have to attached a morph before I can use them... maybe I haven't find out the correct way to use yet or this was done to cater to more functions.

Any way to make the clothes for other victoria models fit into vicki 3?*

*V2 shipped out with a ton o' morphs on her. I think she looks quite stiff, but at least if I wanted to raise her eyebrows, I could do so right away. This "injection" process is to me an unwelcome extra step.

I bought along with V3 the 'head' and 'body' morph packages, V2 shipped with quite an extensive collection of 'head' and 'body' morphs already installed. This reminds me of buying a meal 'ala carte.' Yes, the figure seems cheaper when it's priced at $23 for an upgrade, but when you add the packages you need to buy to get the same versatility that you got from V2, the price goes up til you've spent another $60+ on Victoria, again.... I think that was a seperate gripe, I apologize! ("Ooooooh.... You wanted tires with your new car? Well, that'll be $200 extra.")*

How do they expect us to create more characters off of this model? They profit from the products that other people make from their models so I don't see what all the greed is for.
They could have kept things the way they were but no, they want to see if they can squeez even more out of us.*

Now, are there any more questions about why Victoria 4 is clearly the unprecedented end of the world as we know it?  I mean, what more proof could you need?  Clearly the new model is DOOMED because it costs too much and it's not as flexible as old models and there's not enough stuff for it and it looks ugly and its mother dresses it funny.

:laugh:

Oh, that was too, too funny! Thanks for the trip back through time. :lol:

:lol:

Now go back even further and see what people wrote about Millie/Vickie1 when SHE came out! About how ugly she was and why wouldn't all their Posette clothes fit her

And people say history isn't repeating?

I can't wait for Monday when the first Poser 7 gripes starts ticking in...

ROFL

now this is a valid point...BUT...... whats the fun in not moaning and complaining??

Quote - I can't wait for Monday when the first Poser 7 gripes starts ticking in...

In due time my dear the countdown clock is ticking and soon the air will be filled with discontent. LOL!

I want to know why D4 and M4 aren't out yet !

Quote - I want to know why D4 and M4 aren't out yet !

Now, be fair... do you know hard it is to model a penis? :biggrin:

Quote - :lol:

Now go back even further and see what people wrote about Millie/Vickie1 when SHE came out! About how ugly she was and why wouldn't all their Posette clothes fit her

Ask and ye shall receive.

Behold March, 2000.  'tis prognostication that would make Edgar Cayce and Nostradamus tremble in awe!  It will certainly make the mere mortal tremble in awe!

Well, I wish they would have made her more resonably priced. 60 bucks is kinda much to pay for a new model. I can see them charging that if they gave her morphs and a T-Map. I mean they should have released her as a freebie, or dirt cheapy, and then sell her with the morphs, hair, T-map, and maybe some clothing for the 100.*

I'm not buying millie for several reasons: First, I never buy models unless I really need them (which so far has yet to happen.) Second, $60 is way too much for me even if they threw in the hair, tex, morphs, clothes, etc. Third, from what I've heard, she's not even living up to be as great as everyone hoped, save for the beautiful expressions she can make. Seems like Zygote's either getting lazy or greedy... charging too much for something that's either not done or not up to par...*

*In my opinion, it is very incomplete. Zygote has to realize that the default Poser4 Nude Female is the standard the new figure would be compared to. They inovated in a couple areas, but fell way short in others. Why? Not because it would be difficult, but because it would be less profitable.

The problem is, by not doing the standard Morphs to match Poser 4, they will be loosing sales from a lot of people who otherwise would have bought the new figure. AND, they have sufficiently alienated me, as a consumer, so that they will have to work twice as hard in the future to convince me to buy anything from them.

Some have questioned Victoria's looks, or lack there of, while others like that she looks less than perfect. It would be a moot point if you could customize her look the way you can with the default PF Fem.

Instead of creating a product that would have appeal for the broadest range of customers, by including a good selection of morphs, they have created one that has much more limited appeal.*

You know, I'd be happy with a figure that was basically the same but with better elbows...one where all the existing stuff would still work. I don't know, I'm a novice where modelling is concerned. But Zygote's tactics sicken me and so do the first wave of demo pics I've seen of this not-quite-ready-for-sideshow Millenium woman of theirs. If she represents the new millenium, then let me live in the past.

I'm really having a hard time justifying buying Victoria for this reason. I don't really NEED her. I keep wavering back and forth on buying this figure, but I'm strongly leaning in the direction of not buying her. She might become a white elephant later on. Can't even use her for a door stop if she becomes useless. I think I could put my $60 to better use somewhere else. I'd much rather add $20 and buy the dragon I've drooled over for so long, but have thusfar resisted because of the $79 price tag. I think I'd get much more use out of that instead.*

*As is, she is absolutely useless to me. To not include AT LEAST the same kinds of morphs for character individuation that come with the P4 Nude Female is just plain sick on the part of Zygote.
                                                           ------------------------------------

I know the talent in the community exists to create a high poly model just as good as this one. I wish a few of you, rather than waste time on morphing Victoria, would spend the time collaborating on an better alternative. I would rather pay $75 on BBay for such a model, built and supported by the community, than give my money to Zygote for a very "incomplete" product.

I don't usually get this ticked, but the more I think about this, the more disgusted I am...*

Are you saying Zygote's come up with a Poser Dorkette?..........

I should have read the Forum before spending $85 on Victoria and texture map (sans hair and bikini). As noted in other posts, P4 clothing will not conform and P4 hair is not an easy fit. This should have been stated by Zygote. Consider this before purchase.

However, the P4 has almost limitless variations in character via morphs, that Millie doesn't have, and won't have for a long time to come.

*Sorry, I'm just not impressed with Victoria.....don't think it's worth $60 let alone $100......maybe if the price were half I'd be interested, but only as a novelty.....I think it would be a mistake for everyone to abandon the regular P4 figure just yet......wait until something better comes along......I don't see any significant improvements, and the bending of the joints only seems to be marginally improved.....

Are you trembling in awe yet?

Quote - > Quote - I want to know why D4 and M4 aren't out yet !

 

Now, be fair... do you know hard it is to model a penis? :biggrin:

I'm trying really hard to think of a non-disgusting reply that won't get me banned but after a few glasses of Baileys it eludes me LOL!

Well, if you think of anything, and you can encode it somehow, pass it along. I kinda like disgusting replies. :biggrin:

Baileys... now that sounds like a really excellent idea for a Saturday evening. Think I'll go check the cabinet over the refrigerator and see what's there...

Thank you for these Keith, I haven't laughed so hard since I can remember! Seems like no matter how things change, some things still remain the same. Coldrake

To be fair... Only a small fraction of the issues against v4 stem around price and content so far.

The important reviews will be the ones that stem around what works or doesn't work:

• Will the brows complaint turn out to be a problem or will future texture makers stop painting them onto the maps?
• Will a genital morph be makeable?
• Will the fusion of both eyes onto the same map be an issue or non issue over time?
• Will tears in the hip I saw in one seated post in a review thread turn out to be a fluke or common error?
• Will the lack of visibile scaling dials in some places turn out to be a problem or not?

Etc...

It distracts to focus on the 'amount of content' criticisms. Most people realize we're on day 1 here. Focusing on these kind of criticisms just draws attention away from what might turn out to be valid criticisms down the road.

non-issue

Tyger_purr That is a good example for us Poser users but what about DS users. Do they have an option like that? Do we even CARE if they do or don't?

Does anybody know if V5 will take V4 clothing? How about morphs and textures? If not, I think Daz is really screwing up royally. I don't see why we'll have to pay for everything all over again.  Is this just a scam?

I also hope that V5 has better morphs and joints than V4, can accept higher-res textures, and has a much more realistic body shape.  It better be completely re-rigged as well, I mean, c'mon!

But making V5 completely backwards-compatible with V3 is just as important.

Quote - To be fair... Only a small fraction of the issues against v4 stem around price and content so far.

The important reviews will be the ones that stem around what works or doesn't work:

• Will a genital morph be makeable?

It looks as though the polygon pattern has some support for such a morph. It's not enough for the porn market, but if you want a non-Barbie naked woman, I think it could be done.

V5? If you mean V4 there is a V4 to V3 figure that will can wear V3 clothes, but it will only take V4 textures and head morphs. Yes it has better morphs and joints, takes higher-res textures, has a much more realistic body shape and is completely re-rigged. Take a look for yourself at these links. http://www.daz3d.com/program/characters/index.php http://www.daz3d.com/support/tutorial/tutorial.php?id=1942 Coldrake

coldrake - I was joking. Just trying to start the V5 bitching a little early. No sense in waiting, ya know?

Lol! I thought you might be, but the way but the way things have been going in some of these threads, I wasn't really sure! :) Coldrake

ROFL! I hope Daz sort all the problems out for when V6 is rolled out...V5 will obviously just be a stop-gap figure correcting all of V4's shortcomings. :)

Actually the included Genital Crease morph is quite sufficient for regular nude renders. It gives definition, not porn quality, but better than nothing. And the polygons are there for futher morphing. So in that respect, V4 is an improvement to the previous Barbiedolls from Daz.

The mapping of "that area" is also easier to work with than before.

Quote - Tyger_purr That is a good example for us Poser users but what about DS users. Do they have an option like that? Do we even CARE if they do or don't?

I'm not fimiliar with DS's material capabilities, but i dont think there is an equal for this.

I do care up to a point. I hate to tell people they can't do it easily.... but if they whine, and complain i will loose all concern for their problems :P

Excellent points, Keith :D

Wow! You mean they've finally released Victoria 2? I'm going to have to get her right away!

Just think what it will be like when they come out with Victoria 3 or 4!

• Jack

Keith, this is classic!!! ROFL!!!!!! Thank you for that :-)

Wow - the similarity of those past complaints to current examples is startling...

So there was Daz-Bashing even before they became Daz...poor bastards!

I'm in a state of Keith-awe!

V4, the Upstart?
I wasn't sure about V4 when I first saw her but I've come around - I liken the effect to watching too much Star Trek then coming across a new show that takes a couple episodes to get into because you're so used to the Trek formula that it's effectively reprogrammed your brain (I like Trek but there is an undeniable "Trek Effect" on the mind - it is the Borg of TV! Particularly in the late 90's during the SF draught). 

I've found in life that things that take a little adjusting to "get into", a lot of the time turn out to be things of greater worth than things that come too easy or are pandering to the status quo.

V3 the All-rounder?
I think the dominant figure of the poser scene will always be the best "all-rounder" figure - I think V4 will take over from V3 in that respect (once most users are past the learning curve) - I think also that this probably comes at a cost to specialisation, but over the past year or so CP stepped up to the plate with some nice "specialist" figures like Miki and Koji (Rikishi also appeared out of nowhere) and proved that the marketplace can support them while being dominated by V3. 

Like others I'm a bit p*ssed that the generational "evolution" is a bit slow in some respects - I reckon we're still a ways off from Poser etc being in a "finished" state or evolutionary plateau...

Cheers

Quote - Like others I'm a bit p*ssed that the generational "evolution" is a bit slow in some respects - I reckon we're still a ways off from Poser etc being in a "finished" state or evolutionary plateau...

    If you're looking for the next big thing, stop looking. There's no such thing as the next big thing.
        Nicholas Donofrio, IBM

    There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom.
        **Robert Millikan, Physicist ***

    Everything that can be invented has been invented.
        **Charles H. Duell, U.S. Patent Office ***

    Spam will be a thing of the past in two years' time.
        **Bill Gates, Microsoft
**
Poser, like everything else, will never be "finished". The wheels will just keep goin' 'round and 'round. :biggrin:

** I realize that these two are probably mis-attributions or possibly even fabrications. I'm just trying to be funny, 's'all.*

Well the idea of an evolutionary plateau is supposed to describe an extended period of time where there is relative stability in the shape of something - an ideal form for the given environment.

With computer hardware evolving by a magnitude every 18months or so there's always going to be some cool new thing we can shove into software. With 3D figures it can obviously continue evolving until they are perfect replicas of human beings right down to the molecules.

However, I'd be quite happy with a "rest" period somewhere in the middle of the super-evolutionary pushes where Poser figures look and bend like real people on the outside and can wear realistically draping cloth along with belts and armor and other cool hard-edged stuff etc.

At that point it would be a "finished" product in my opinion as it would have finally delivered on the promise of Poser itself - the digital mannequin/figure for artistic reference etc.

After that it would be "Poser Plus" or something.

But actually, I think if Poser reaches that ideal "plateau" it will be in competition with Max, Maya and all the high-end apps response to the virus that is Poser in the 3D world, heheh. 

Cheers

OK, totally off topic but I must say this because it's creeping me out.

CaptainJack - There's a guy in my office that looks EXACTLY like you AND his name is JACK! Every time I see one of your posts, I have to wonder if it's the Jack that I know. I'm in California. You know they say there is a person on the Earth that looks EXACTLY like you...well, I have no doubt!

I am sure if you two sat down together the differences would be obvious, but that avatar you have....WHOA! Dead ringer!

OK, that's it. Carry on.

Quote - CaptainJack - There's a guy in my office that looks EXACTLY like you AND his name is JACK! Every time I see one of your posts, I have to wonder if it's the Jack that I know. I'm in California. You know they say there is a person on the Earth that looks EXACTLY like you...well, I have no doubt! I am sure if you two sat down together the differences would be obvious, but that avatar you have....WHOA! Dead ringer!

Well that's kinda cool, and kinda creepy at the same time. Especially if he behaves like me, too...  

My avatar picture is about three years old, so I'm just a touch grayer in the beard (actually, I'm growing the beard back, had to shave it for a play I was in a couple of weeks ago) and I'm in Indianapolis, Indiana, and I've never actually been to California. So, there's that.

Funny thing is, my boss says I'm a dead ringer for the choir director at his church, too.

Hey! Maybe I'm part of some weird cloning experiment!

Nah, probably not. :biggrin:

Quote - [
Well that's kinda cool, and kinda creepy at the same time. Especially if he behaves like me, too...

Well, he's a big pervert and has a foot fetish. (I mean that in the nicest of ways, really! ) Does that sound familiar?!?!?!?!

Quote - Well, he's a big pervert and has a foot fetish. (I mean that in the nicest of ways, really! ) Does that sound familiar?!?!?!?!

Well... I can accept the pervert label, but I'd have to say that my personal tastes are definitely farther north.