You can tell I just got Poser 7 because I have been reading the End User License Agreement.  :bored: Anyway, the EULA talks about "restricted content" and "allowed content." Seemingly, "restricted content" covers basically everything but the cardboard on the INSIDE of the box. I was wondering... What's the allowed content? It doesn't seem to say...

There are two real items to bring up: first, I thought I recalled that somewhere (hidden away on the Curious Labs website) that users were allowed to redistribute the Poser 5 skullcaps if they were part of a new dynamic hair object. The Poser 7 (and 6) figures include "follicle sets." Is there any evidence that these can be redistributed as part of a hair object, or do we have to model a new skullcap if we want to distribute hair? (Can somebody find a link to the answer if it exists?)

Secondly, I'm noticing that the "better" P7 textures come with pretty complex shader trees. Are the trees themselves (NOT the maps) restricted content? Probably, they are, but I just want to be sure.

If anyone knows for certain what content we are allowed to redistribute as a basis for something else, I'd really like to hear from you. Thanks!

I doubt the shader trees are restricted, because you can easily recreate those yourself, if they are, just ad a .0001 onto the end of each variable, and change any colors by 1 in Red Green and Blue, this will make then "not the same shaders" and you could redistribute that LOL

oh, if the shaders are custom named, just copy the entire lot, and then paste them back in (after deleting the originals. this will remove the custom names ;P

Templargfx, that sounds downright subversive!

Actually, that would be a "derivative work," and derivative works of restricted content are still restricted content. Which is downright restrictive if we want to use the groovy shader nodes to create a "compatible looking" new texture set.

LOL, its only derivative if they know all you did is copy and change it, all you gotta do is say that you made those nodes yourself!

"sure" I'd say "it looks JUST like your node setup, but that doesnt mean it is your node setup"

LOL Im Evil

Where that falls down is when you're asked to prove it by recreating it from scratch without the originals to copy from, only the person who actually did the work would be able to do that.

As somebody who's done a fair amount of shader-hacking, I suspect the answer could only be settled by an expensive court case. But just copying somebody else's shader, changing the texture, and passing it off as your own is just a cheap rip-off.

lol, I didnt say you should do it, I was just pointing out that you can LOL

and the whole recreate it thing is a load of %#$*($$$. I have created some of the most overly complex skin shaders in my time, take for example Beautiful Skin Shader released ages ago, I couldnt re-create that from scratch without the original to copy from if my life depended on it (although I am sure I would come up with yet another one LOL)

I'm wondering when the admins will notice this thread. No naughty words or nudity, just a little suggestion that encourages copyright infringement, so I won't hold my breath.

M

no, he said he wasn't encouraging the illegal redistribution of derivative shaders. e-f has allowed redistribution of some of their content in previous versions, but in general one should not distribute a derivative product unless the recipient is required to possess the original version in order to use the derivative.

Quote - I'm wondering when the admins will notice this thread. No naughty words or nudity, just a little suggestion that encourages copyright infringement, so I won't hold my breath.

M

Please do, and let me know the hex code for the shade of blue you turn, eh?

Meanwhile, Simon is turning blue holding his breath waiting for some new hair.

Quote - What I really wanted to know was whether the folicle sets are redistributable.

The answer to this is already known.
You can't redistribute the skull caps that come with Poser.
If you know how to set up an external geometry call in a prop file, then you could modify the saved hair prop to do this and it would then be OK or you could make your own skull cap, which must be all your own mesh, not extracted from the figure geometry or there are freebie skull caps around that can be used (check terms for each item).

A festive Ramadan to you too, dear.
M

Attached Link: What is the significance of the first 10 days of Dhul-Hijjah?

Ramadan isn't for approximately another year, it was celebrated this past year between the dates: September 24 - October 22, 2006.  Right now, the Moslem World is celebrating Dhul-Hijjah, the pilgramage festival.
DPH

A little bit of philosophy.
A derivative work is when you take some work, apply a mechanical method and obtain the result.
If you repeat the same process you obtain the same result.
Now take a dial setting and add to it a random number, the result will not be a derivative work because each time you apply the method you obtain a different result.
If the difference between the new and the original is a random number it never can be a derivative work. To consider it as a derivative work contradicts the definition of a random number.

One off the cuff remark, that's all it takes for a thread to turn crazy, Life is too short to get het up over things like this, I'm off for a mince pie & a cup of coffee. :D

Someone did some work on low-poly skullcaps for the native Poser figures (and some others too.) They give much better results than high-poly caps.

That was several windows re-installs ago, though, and I can't remember the person's name. Damn. I'll keep thinking about it.

Happy new year, Mick ;-)

Traveler is the name that springs to my mind.

PhilC has royalty free skull caps (for the P4 / P5 figures) in his freestuff archive -> http://www.philc.net/freestuff_archive.htm

I had the idea that you couldn't copyright shader networks, wether it's nice and ethical or not is another story, same with morph dials or poses to an extent. Did this change again? Just curious. :)

Quote - I had the idea that you couldn't copyright shader networks, wether it's nice and ethical or not is another story, same with morph dials or poses to an extent. Did this change again? Just curious. :)

They are copyrightable, but like computer programs, there are some subtleties invovled in determining what is covered and when or if something may have been derived from something else.

What if you used a number of Poser's primitives to create a prop? Is that O.K.?

yes, that's o.k., elf - at least for prior versions of poser. just to be certain, distribute the new prop in a file that references the poser props, to save on file size and avoid copyright complaints.

Quote - They are copyrightable, but like computer programs, there are some subtleties invovled in determining what is covered and when or if something may have been derived from something else.

In software there are parts that are copyrightable and parts that are not copyrightable, if a parts is not copyrightable it doesn't matter if is a derived work or an exact copy, this part is not subjected to copyrights.
For example, in most of the Windows executables (exe or dll) the first 128 bytes are exactly the same.

I would like to thank everybody for the useful information. I looked at PhilC's site, but unfortunately he only has skullcaps for P4, P5, Vicky, and Mike. Guess I'll have to make my own if I want to make dynamic hair. There seem to be a lot of barriers to dynamic hair, primarily technical. Since you can't really just save the hair and have it snap on to the figure's polygons, this makes it virtually impossible to exchange, much less reuse, things like beards, cat fur, etc., without essentially rebuilding the whole body part or figure, complete with morphs, to use as a "cap."

One thing that I assume actually is an allowed derivative work... correct me if I'm wrong... Is using the joint setup for a figure to create conforming clothes. Right? After all, no matter how you arrive at this set of numbers, it has to be virtually the same or the clothes won't conform. It was kind of an assumption until now, but I see with the release of G2/P7 figures and especially V4, what users are allowed to base clothing on has become explicitly stated... unless I'm misinterpreting something. That IS what the "development rig" for G2 figures is for, correct? Using it in the setup room to make conforming clothes?

It's only about 500 polygons, which might be a little too much wishful thinking considering I may have to trim part of it off. Much better than the hair cap that comes with Miki, though. What is that, like 20,000 polygons or something!? I don't remember. A ridiculous number, for certain.