I just came upon this site and didn't know if I should ask this here or not, but..

I've been looking over things and I'm really interested in learning how to use poser to draw 3D comic like characters and stories, I have recently bought the newest version, and I was wondering how long could it take to get good at making 3D comics(or at least draw the art minus the stories)?

Is it something that takes years of perfecting, or could I do it with a few hours a day in a couple months?

I'll use a good looking comic example:

http://www.windweaver3d.com/html/books/issue07/0702.htm

I just picked something I thought looked good on here. I want to know what kind of investment this would take to learn how to create the art(the story is a whole other level I know lol.. but just wondering about the art for now)

I apologize if I shouldn't ask this here, but I don't know where to ask it, thank you. I just think it'd be very entertaining being able to create stories with graphics like this.

This is a perfect place to ask, but be warned, you will get a huge variety of answer!

I'll start.

I did a comic a while back for Renderotica's magazine.  It was a huge learning experience, I might add.

There are a few things to consider.

First, if you are new, then you will need to invest time in getting to know how to set things up for a nice render in Poser.  Poses, textures and lighting are all very important considerations and the more you play with, read and learn in these areas, the better your comic will be.

But that is the first learning curve, and it does take some time investment.  I've been using Poser for going on five years now and I'm still nowhere near the best artists, but I have come a long way!

Second consideration, is complexity of scenes.  I've had panels that were so complex they took me three days to build (often painting my own textures before hand) and then another day to render.  If you are using Poser 7, you won't have to worry about a scene freezing partway into a render, but you'll still have to contend with render times.  A complex scene with multiple figures on a single core processor machine can still take 8 or more hours just to render!

Third consideration is postwork.  When I worked on my comic I took every image into Photoshop for various reasons.  Sometimes to add nifty special effects like lasers, sometime to composite more then one image together, and always to adjust contract and colour values so that in the end my comic wouldn't look like "just another Poser comic".

My post work could take anywhere from one to four hours per panel.

Then the final step is arranging pages and adding all the dialogue, balloons and so on.

Considering I have a full time job, I could realistically produce a five panel page in about a week and a half.

If I had two computers and it was my job, I think I could have done a five panel page in about three or four days.

In the end, it was a very rewarding experience, but I was using Poser 5 and I ended up with a lot of stuff that wouldn't render and I had to keep making compromises.  It made me walk away from Poser for at least half a year in frustration!

This is my experience.  I was going for as professional and original of a look as possible.  if you are just doing it for a hobby, then you can probably cut down a lot of time.  You will find it fun, but you probably won't make any money with it.

If you are looking to seriously get into making comics, I suggest getting to know your image editing software really well (for example, Photoshop)!  What you can accomplish in post production often will save you time and afford you creativity that you cannot get from renders alone.

Also, collect as many freebies as possible.  It's amazing when you are building a scene the little knick knacks you will need that you never thought of.  It is very nice that freebie artists create the things we might never buy or think about (toilet paper roll? cigar box? half eaten apple?) but that we really need to make our scenes richer.

Oh, if you are thinking for commercial purposes, though, only collect things where the artist says you can use them for commercial purposes in the readme.  I personally pass over anything that won't give commercial use privilages.  Or, you can contact the author for permission.

Anyway, good luck and when you do do something, let us all know.

Cheers!

The learning curve for Poser can be really steep or it can seem simple, depending upon how much time and effort you're willing to invest in it.  I've been using Poser for 4 years now and am still learning.

The thing you have to realize is that Poser isn't a 2D program where you "draw" something.  This is a 3D program where you bring in a character, pose and clothe, bring in the background, set your lights and then render.  

There are a lot of render options that you need to learn about, too.  Each of these things takes time and I can guarantee you won't master this program in a couple of months.  We have people here who have been using the program longer than I have who, like me, still learn new things all the time.  If you're willing to invest the time and work, you'll learn it.  This forum is a good place to start and to stay.  We've got a lot of great artists here and all of us are willing to help.

I've never completed an image in under four hours.

Artistically, using Poser for comic art requires more effort to lay out an image and less effort to finish it. 

jake, one can learn how to do the sort of images in yer link in less than 6 months. they are good examples of what a talented and dedicated newbie can do. you'll soon learn the various shortcuts used by the artist: weak or non-existent shadows, bad joints, bad clothes fits, weak or blank backgrounds, etc. these are the same shortcuts you'll take to get the comic done by deadline, but unfortunately it contributes to the telltale "poser look" that major comic book artists and 3d pros tend to scoff at. to learn how to do it in such a way that a major comic book publisher will accept will take at least 2 years IMVHO. probably alot more experience needed, if ya wanna get 'em to do a print version that ain't self-published, and that comic book stores will order. but that's largely irrelevant now, as anybody can put one of these on the web and reach more people.

Miss Nancy brings up a good, solid point:  What is your target audience?

If you are self publishing, and you do not care about profit, then you do not (perspectively) need as high of quality in the picuteures department.  Hopefully your story will carry you.

If you are looking to compete with "the big boys", then your art, as well as your story matter.

If you are using a Poser-to-Photoshop work flow and looking to compete with the big boys, PM me.  I will answer any questions you have and/or direct you to the most helpful online tutoriais.

I completely believe in an artists freedom to tell a story, but I insist that quality will be what differentiats you to begin with.

The first and most imporatant thing you will have to learn is that POSER is a bad word amoung those who work in 3D art. 

You may have wondered why you do not see Poser art in conic pages.  The truth is, the freedom of image takes a lot of work and POSER images themselves will be flat out denied by all but pose publishers (Renderotica excepted).

I did see a Poser based comic a few months back in Heavy Metal but they did so much post work and base painting that the only things recognixable were the V3 eyes.

In anycase, PM with any questions, I will be glad to point you in the right direction.

For me the most important thing is the comics framing and layout. Even the most interesting story in the world looks pretty dull in a 3x3 grid. Look at comics and magazines like 2000AD for ideas.  

You can shave off a lot of time by rendering backgrounds first and rendering over those. 
Try to Match lights and shadow, particulary if you render the background in something else like vue.

To get ground shadows when using background images use a ground plane like RNDA's Infinity Cove and some foreground objects.  

Rendering over parts of the same background image can provide visual continuity as well.

Above all try things out and have fun!

my experiance has been mostly trial and error. and a lot of time and imagination. i don't think you could really put a time on how long it takes to learn something like poser. there's always something new evolving from artists,new tricks new styles etc. try poser out , jump in with both feet.just remember to have fun. 

Wow, I got more than I bargained for! Came back wondering if I'd get a response lol.

Thanks for all of the educational insight!  At the moment I want to use this as a hobby but perhaps I will work on art in 3D format as I'm much less likely to cramp from holding a mouse than a pencil :).

I ran into a snag though, I been playing with this thing for hours and have bought several packages, but for example the problem I'm having is I cannot figure out how to INJect the pregnant body morph onto the Stephanie 3 Petite Body figure.  I load the S3 Petite figure and go to Poses, bring up Full Body Morphs folder "SP! Full Body INJ"  and when it shows the list, I click the icon, yet nothing happens.

Isn't it suppose to morph the body and give it the pregnant belly? Or am I doing this incorrectly?  Most of the other options work just by clicking them and they appear, or they change.. but these INJ .rsr morphs from Full Body Morph packet do not.

Isn't it suppose to morph the body and give it the pregnant belly? Or am I doing this incorrectly? "

After you apply the morph, find the paramer dial with the name and turn it up or down.

Great, thanks a lot lol

poser does not make you an artist.

you still have to account for:
focal point
point of view
framing
color
lighting

then on top of that you will have to learn rendering, mapping and postwork.
can you do it? sure.

but like any other craft, you get out of it what you invest. some are more gifted than others but that should not dissuade you from enjoyment. art is expression, and expression is enjoyment.
:biggrin:

Well, so far I am enjoying it lol.   It's 3 in the morning, I need to go to bed, sheesh.

But, one more newbie question though that I can't figure out, how do you add things on, like certain effects.. raining, blood, water puddles, etc?

Well, that is a tough question to answer.

There area  variety of ways to do these sorts of things, but each problem has its own, specific solution.

The easiest way (for most) is to add effects after you've rendered using something like Photoshop.

This isn't always the best way, though.  Water puddles, for example, are better done using a prop (I think Trekkiegrrl has a morphing water puddle).  You would take that prop, change it's properties in the Material room (add reflection, make transparent or add refraction, etc).

You can create rain by putting in a few single plane squares and then creating a transmap for them in photoshop (or Paintshop pro, or whatever).

Blood depends on where the blood is, is it a stain on a shirt or a splatter on the wall, each requires a different technique.

At the top of this page is a link to the tutorials section, you will find a lot of helpful things in there.  Many are well written and straightforward.  Also, Daz has tutorials.  I've seen some really good ones for snow and water.

Good luck!

there's an alley/rain prop at http://z9.invisionfree.com/halls_of_olympus/index.php?act=idx .i've seen it used here. it looks really good. oh yeah its free.

I'm into it for the same reasons. I wish I knew where to go for grand comic related postwork tutorials though.

Phantast has a really good tutorial for assembling a comic in Photoshop, with many tips on things like composition and style and sizing:
http://phanta.st

As far as postwork goes, I don't have any suggestion - I've avoided learning postwork much at all, only got so many brain cells and I have plenty of other things to learn.  I reckon I want to get as much out of the scene and render as I possibly can before I go at it with an airbrush.  Once you've got your render, it's pretty fixed; if you realize a month later that you'd really rather rotate the camera 90 degrees, you can't fix that with postwork, you have to do it all again.

Thanks for the link!

It's partly my background, but I tend to think of Poser as more like a camera. You don't have real people, but there are a lot of similarities with making a studio set, putting people in front of the camera, and taking a picture. Things such as the focal length setting on the Poser Camera have similar effects as on a real camera. And at least some postwork is a lot like what photographers did in the darkroom. It's another way of looking at how you use Poser. It works for me, but I'm not so good at drawing.