Quote - Wow...I love how YOUR wants are worth way more than anyone else's.  Face it, it's not your right to post images here, it's a privelege.  Even Renderotica has rules.  Much stricter rules, I might add.  And, I've found some brilliant artists who post their erotica and/or nudes there as well.
I've said it a bajillion and 24 times before. If you want a no-holds-barred, no-rules gallery, buy your own hosting, and have your own.  Or, you can come in here, whining that your right to post whatever the hell you feel like it is being trampled on by "bad parents" (I know you didn't say it. That's what you were implying, no?"
I'm not going to turn on my filter because you can't turn on your brain.  My filter will remain as is, and, it seems, that your cranial-rectal impaction will go on undiagnosed.

Without insulting JenX's cranial-rectal anatomy.
First off, some people actually do pay for their galleries here. Some people pay a monthly fee so they can upload as many images to their gallery as they want too.  So yes they do actually have a right to post what they want in them. 

Secondly,

"If you want a no-holds-barred, no-rules gallery, buy your own hosting, and have your own"

That's a straw man arguement if there ever was one.

The same can be said to those who don't want a "no holds barred", "no rules gallery.".

Lastly,

You not only admit you don't turn on your filters, but you adamantly refuse too use them. And then when you see nudes here, you want to gripe about it?

Seems to me that if you as an adult, choose not to use the free filters Rosity is kind enough to provide us the "priveledge" of using for free, and then you see a nude image, in a gallery some poor bloke is paying to upload too, it's your own fault.

Where do you get off blaming the artist who created the image for your seeing it?

Sincerely, 

Fed up with being told to be responsible for the actions of other adults, and their children.

NO, we are NOT going to go down this personal attack road. If you want to give your comment or opinion in a civil non personal way, please feel free, otherwise don't post.  

Everyone has their different opinions or feelings on any change we make and that is fine but it shouldn't always have to turn into personal attacks and I won't let this thread go any further down that road.

If this continues, this thread will be locked.

I didn't personally attack anyone stacey. 

In fact I pointed out that I wouldn't on purpose.

I'm going to keep repeating  what has already been stated in the FP article, opinion posts, forum posts, etc.

There were several factors involved in making this change NOT just those that don't care for the t&a in your face thumbnails, please read the Front Page article. And alot of those people DO want to see artistic nudity just not "in your face" thumbs.

Darth,

I wasn't talking to you, you hadn't even posted when I was replying to this thread. See my post time was 1:32 and yours was above mine but at 1:34 because you hit reply faster than me, lol

personally i dont see what the problem is with not allowin nudity in the thumbs....your still allowed to post nude pictures. just use a part of your image that hasnt got any nudity in it. get over it

Stacey,

That is how every single attempt at supressing freedom of artistic expression has started.

"Well we'll just ban t&a".

Next thing you know the ptb are banning barney the dinosaur and teletubbies.

It's a slippery slope, and one that I don't think Rosity should try to venture down whatsoever.
As I aptly pointed out in my previous post, the site has provided everyone with filters. 

If they use them they won't see t&a "in their face"

If they choose not to use them, then thats their own fault if t&a is in their face.

What right does someone who chooses not to use those filters, have to gripe about artists doing nudes, or demand that no one be allowed to post them?

And no those questions are not answered in the OP on the front page. :)

Sincerly,

FED UP.

Quote - Darth,

I wasn't talking to you, you hadn't even posted when I was replying to this thread. See my post time was 1:32 and yours was above mine but at 1:34 because you hit reply faster than me, lol

I see that now stacey.

Nevertheless I was just making sure it wasn't me your were about to get midevil on.

:)

Quote - Next thing you know the ptb are banning barney the dinosaur and teletubbies.

ummm...as far as i know they are both copyrighted characters and as such shouldnt be used in pics anyway :)

That is one of the reasons darth but not the ONLY reason which is the point I am trying to make.  You are focusing on one of the stated reasons and aside from that reason (even if it wasn't a factor in making the decision) there were other factors that would have led us here.

We aren't BANNING t&a, just not allowing it in the thumbnail image?  The full image guidelines have NOT changed?????

Stacey, I apologize for my part in the personal attacks…but to be quite honest, I’m tired of people putting words in my mouth.

I never once tried to change the new policy…I simply gave my opinion of it (and I was under the impression that I’m still allowed an opinion here, unless I missed that memo). I feel my thumbnail should represent my image…even if there is more to the image than tits and ass. I don’t do artistic nudes, I do gratuitous nudes. It’s eye candy, nothing more, nothing less. I’m not Michelangelo here…and I would never pretend to be. There is nothing “artistic” about Victoria 3 with her ass in the air…at least not when I render.

The fact that people imply that I feel the whole site should bow down to my wants, because they refuse to use the nudity filter, sounds more like the site just bowed down to them.

But I guess that point has become irrelevant, since the nudity filter is now obsolete.

erm... I put no words in your mouth. you were the one that attacked me remember (you quoted me.... I had never spoken to you before)? so, to put the record straight, I take it that apology is also to me?

Erm...I'm just a blonde here, but I thought maybe Stacey was referring to the comments between me and JenX. And I assure you...it wasn't you that I felt was putting words in my mouth.

I'm not sure when quoting a peson became a personal attack...and I do believe I apologized if my thumbnails were stealing views from anyone.

But if you feel I owe you another apology, for trying to understand what you were saying...and you seemed to have agreed with my understanding...then yeah sure...I'm sorry.

And I'm sure you are equally as sorry, for implying people aren't viewing your images, simply because I have a couple of well rounded tits on my latest thumbnail. Or that people only view my images, because of those tits.

"And I'm sure you are equally as sorry, for implying people aren't viewing your images, simply because I have a couple of well rounded tits on my latest thumbnail. Or that people only view my images, because of those tits."

er no.. since that is EXACTLY what I was saying. you just took at as an attack on you. someone that before this thread I did'nt even know existed. tell you what.. lets just call it quits....

Yeah…I was kinna under the impression that’s “EXACTLY” what you were saying.

I took it as an attack on anyone that has ever used tits and ass for a thumbnail…not just me. I don’t get charged for viewing images, nor do I have a limit to how many I can view in a day. So to say people aren’t viewing your images, because they wasted all their views on the tittie gallery seems rather absurd. Your thumbnail is what prompts people to view your images. I just strongly disagree with your opinion that any image is stealing views from anyone else. There are plenty of views to go around.

I haven’t viewed your gallery, nor will I at this point, simply because I don’t want to be tempted to make any attacks on your work. With that said…if you feel you’re not getting the views you deserve, maybe you should rethink your own thumbnails. I just recently moved, and have been force to use dial-up for the time being…so if I don’t know you, your thumbnail is the only thing I have to go by, to decide if I want to take the time for that page to load, to view the image.

I’m rather shocked at how free some people are, with using words like “titties” “vagina” and mostly “cock”, yet are the very ones that are offended by those images. That just seems a tad hypocritical to me. Maybe it’s time we clean up the forums as well.

lets just call it quits....

hugz

Its not about that Kinouk. We aren't doing this for people that don't want to view nudity AT ALL. There were several factors involved in making this decision, please read the FP article.

Quote
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php

Ok I fixed all my thumbs in my gallery. It's a good thing that  I only had three pages and that I didn't do that many nudes. Please check it out and let me know if I missed anything.

Wouldn't want to offend It just might be time to move on and this is so sad.

Hey kinouk the above link goes to my gallery
(Thumbnails with lots of tits and bums!!!) and NO I'm not going to edit them :) LOL

LOL Star4mation!! I just did it cuz I really liked my new thumb. i think it adds a lot of class to nudes. Have a great day
hugz
Joan

OK Joan, I checked out your Red X thumbnails, very amusing :) If I did the same to my Gallery it would look like a very one-sided game of naughts and crosses with naughts loosing big time!!!

Quote -

You not only admit you don't turn on your filters, but you adamantly refuse too use them. And then when you see nudes here, you want to gripe about it?

See, now I know you didn't read what I wrote, you just read what you wanted and went from there.  I enjoy many nude and erotic images.  However, as has been said by others, it's a bit much when you have a screen full of thumbs in the gallery with spread crotches, nipple close-ups, outer-labial close-ups and the like.  Those little glimpses of sex? (they are what they are.)  Those are usually not completely indicative of the whole piece.  In most galleries, that's considered "cheating".  You get "modded down" for it.  So, why is it that people are fighting tooth and nail for it to go on here? 

No one's saying "don't post nude images".  Many of us who are completely for nude images in the gallery and enjoy them really don't like the blatant "money shots".  While I don't remember if I did rally for the new thumbnail rules, I'm completely for them. 

Plus, as a bonus, it makes the galleries look way more professional.

Stacy, I seriously think the fair way to go is to make all thumbnails Blank, and only have a short descriptive, Nude/Non-Nude. Or if the artist is ambicious a short narrative of the subjet matter. See no one is excluded and everyone is treated EQUALLY!
A_

OH!!!!! Nude/Non-Nude Or Violence! And yes I know how to spell subject! :P
A_

That wouldn't look very professional IMO.. We have implemented this change for several reasons its not just about the members that don't like the "in your face' thumbnail t&a. I think this is probably the 100th time I've said that, lol:)

We of course understood that not all would agree with this new policy as there is such a large number of members on this site and everyone does not have the same views.  

We are treating everyone as equal since this isn't about not allowing nudity at all in the galleries, its just the thumbnails, not the full image. If we were just basing it on one thing and it was the members that don't like "nudity" we wouldn't have nudity on the site at all but we have no plans of that happening.

The vendors and a lot of gallery upload artists have already been creatively  and successfully making their thumbnails with no nudity on images that have nudity:)

I have a MAJOR problem with this rule. Not because of the nudity at all. BUT because most of the outfits I use happen to be second skins. They fit without tweaking ect. BUT It was bad enough when I had to mark all of my pictures that featured second skins as nude, due to an overzealous person on the site, but I also rarely have the time to make a thumbnail> I post in so many areas and ALL of the thumbnail requirements are different> Almost all of my work just has a small version of the whole pic as the thumbnail> NOW I have to COMPLETELy change the way I do things because of this rule, when I DON'T do the in your face theme. How fair is this ruling?

Well dlblue in looking at your gallery any images I see that you might be talking about clearly show nipples/breast so of course that would be needing the nudity tag? And if it has the nudity tag, then yes it couldn't be showing that on the thumbnail.

clothing second skins, Nudity or not? I don't wear bras most of the time. So does that mean i am nude if I am wearing a shirt that my nipples are sticking out in front of, even though there is no color of them showing, meaning that the top is fully clothed and not see through? I just don't understand. I do understand if I use a fishnet top that shows the bits, but if the nips have been painted over completely, why is that considered nudity, when a man can show nips fully unclothed?

WHAT IS VIOLENCE?  Is it blood? Is it implied Blood? You know a sword in hand? I want a definition! Cause I need to know. So I can be PC!!! And if you don't know, how can you place a rule with no guideline?
A_

I am working on the wording for the violence thumbnails Desert.  It would include the "blood" and "gore" but I will be putting up specific wording shortly

Concerning second skins, if the nipple shows like in a tee shirt with no bra, Nude or not? if so nude, WHY? men have nipples that they aren't required to cover. if there is no clothing covering it, or see through clothing, I can understand this, but painted clothing that shows a shiloette of the nip is a proble? Yes or no.

Hello, I would like to add my feedback about the policy change.

I don't mind the thumbnail policy change per say, although I expect more censorship to follow. And I sincerely hope you prove me wrong.  I believe it is going to lead to more complaints by the anti-nudes that "they clicked on a thumbnail that looked innocent and saw (gasp) a bare breast" somehow missing the contains nudity branding.

They seem to think they have won some sort of moral issue with the thumbs and are already calling to have all images with nudes in a "separate" gallery. Thus, making artists who do use nudes (of any kind) feel like they are being treated not as equals. And that by separating art in this manner you are declaring Nudity is dirty and is immoral.

 I feel this is indeed a slippery slope and said complainants will continue to badger you until they get their way.

I am a Pin-Up Artist. This art form does involve sensuality and the human form and sometimes a good dose of innuendo. This is my style of art and it is an Art.

I may be a beginning 3d artist but for fellow artists to sling comments around that none of these people have talent or skill is absurd and sounds like jealousy more than any thing else. Or that nudes are stealing their hits. I care nothing about my hit count, hate to burst their bubbles. Peoples taste in art isn't going to change over night.

 It really saddens me to see artists treating each other this way.  When I see something I don't want to look at in the gallery.....I move on. Perhaps their likes and dislikes are more important than mine.

I do understand your never going to please everyone. But do give a thought as to what art is and all the different ways to define art as this business describes it's self as an "Art Community". I haven't done anything wrong and am not going to go away. I don't think it is Renderosity's staff or policies that have saddened me as much as my fellow artists attitude.

Marianne

So, shortly before the deadline I managed to get

in!  Based on the illustrative pictures, this'd be banned in like 2 minutes from now, no?

It's threads like these that make me realize why I was so surprised to learn the ages of many here at Renderosity (I think it was a thread in the Poser forum).

I was surprised that most ages  were adults, between mid to late 30's, to some in thier 60's. A large amount in the 40-50 range.

This thread illustrates so clearly why I was so surprised.

Tom

I think I have a reasonably valid question. There are so many beautiful charecters out there who have second skins. Seeing as how i don't have to worry if it will fit right, I use these most often. And the designers have come up with a few that completely surpass regular clothing. if I use one, I don't want to be told I'm violating TOS. But the standards are unfair for males to females. Even the new V4 is getting androgynous. It's absolutly nuts. I for one am not looking foreward to another puritanical age. I'm not a perv either, just concerned as to where this is all going to end up.

dlblue:

Concerning second skins, if the nipple shows like in a tee shirt with no bra, Nude or not? if so nude, WHY? men have nipples that they aren't required to cover. if there is no clothing covering it, or see through clothing, I can understand this, but painted clothing that shows a shiloette of the nip is a proble? Yes or no.

No, not nudity at all. Here are the rules again:

No nudity in thumbnails. This means no clothes, clothes that are transparent or blurring of nude images.
Tasteful breast exposure only is allowed. No areola or nipple exposure, and no transparent fabric.
No exposed buttocks – more exposure than a standard bikini bottom would constitute nudity.
No exposed male or female genitals
No Sexually Suggestive Language or "Censored" language/images.

So as long as the top isn't sheer, you're fine.
The only problem may be if the top was for some reason flesh-coloured, so that it looked at first glance like the model was nude. That might cause some confusion. But I'd imagine the times you'd use a flesh-coloured outfit would be very few and far between...

Hope this helps :-)

"Tasteful breast exposure only is allowed. No areola or nipple exposure, and no transparent fabric.
No exposed buttocks – more exposure than a standard bikini bottom would constitute nudity.
No exposed male or female genitals
No Sexually Suggestive Language or "Censored" language/images."

When was the "suggestive" language added as I did not see it in the announcement?

**The more I look at this new change, the less it seems right. It is a form of censorship. Because if it wasn't there wouldn't be all of this.....

"No nudity in thumbnails. This means no clothes, clothes that are transparent or blurring of nude images.
Tasteful breast exposure only is allowed. No areola or nipple exposure, and no transparent fabric.
No exposed buttocks – more exposure than a standard bikini bottom would constitute nudity.
No exposed male or female genitals
No Sexually Suggestive Language or "Censored" language/images."

tacked on!  This crosses over from requesting that a thumb nail be non offensive into really scary territory. Mainly because of the description of what construed an acceptable bikini bottom! Maybe we do need to start handing out Burka's to all members.
 
And Karen, you just contradicted Stacy G! Her comment to Dlblue was.....

"Well dlblue in looking at your gallery any images I see that you might be talking about clearly show nipples/breast so of course that would be needing the nudity tag? And if it has the nudity tag, then yes it couldn't be showing that on the thumbnail."

and You said.....

"dlblue:

Concerning second skins, if the nipple shows like in a tee shirt with no bra, Nude or not? if so nude, WHY? men have nipples that they aren't required to cover. if there is no clothing covering it, or see through clothing, I can understand this, but painted clothing that shows a shiloette of the nip is a proble? Yes or no.

No, not nudity at all. Here are the rules again"

So even Management is not on the same page.

I would like an honest answer as to WHY, this is being done? I agree that Thumbs should be tasteful, but this descriptive list of rules reminds me of when I used to strip and the bottom could not show the butt cheeks, but you were topless! What an oxy-moron that was! Same here, with Thumbnails and protecting puritanical sensibillities. Why can't the verbage of this change just state that the thumbs must be neutral and  and leave it there?  I don't do any more nudes than non-nudes. I don't care for some art, (*and some push it to the point of being more soft porn, without sex!) but, I defend the right to create. So thumbnails are usually supposed to generally be representative of the pic, if this rule is to protect our "sensibillities"   then stop pussyfooting around and don't allow any! That way NO ONE gets offended! Because it is more insulting to everyone to have this list of  "what you can't do"   then if you just don't allow them period! As for the theory of "I don't want to wade thru every pic on renderosity" implying that "They" may only want to see something that is titallating or whatever,  well maybe you should track a favorite artist that does something you like. Broaden your horizons and look at all the art, not just a few. Or not. BTW, I am entitled to ask this and have this opinion, I do pay to post and not 3 pics a day, every day. But a modest amount that I try to do well.  So stop saying "I", "WE" are whining and immature...this rule is   (*and Tom, stuff it!).
A_
** 

Quote - the teenage boys will be disappointed though...they will have to look at other pics b4 they find some with t&a in :D

They could always just click on all the images with a nudity flag.
That way, even if it's not what they were looking for, they'll still get some kind of nudity. (badly done nudity is better than no nudity at all) :lol:

Quote - I have a MAJOR problem with this rule. Not because of the nudity at all. BUT because most of the outfits I use happen to be second skins. They fit without tweaking ect. BUT It was bad enough when I had to mark all of my pictures that featured second skins as nude, due to an overzealous person on the site, but I also rarely have the time to make a thumbnail> I post in so many areas and ALL of the thumbnail requirements are different> Almost all of my work just has a small version of the whole pic as the thumbnail> NOW I have to COMPLETELy change the way I do things because of this rule, when I DON'T do the in your face theme. How fair is this ruling?

If you use the no nipples option, second-skin clothing would not have to be flagged as nudity

DesertGoddessDesigns:

Stacey's comment was
"Well dlblue in looking at your gallery any images I see that you might be talking about clearly show nipples/breast so of course that would be needing the nudity tag? And if it has the nudity tag, then yes it couldn't be showing that on the thumbnail."
Which agrees exactly with my comment to dlblue. dlblue has images in their gallery which show the nipples, these would need to be tagged and can't be shown on thumbnails. Secondskin clothing which doesn't show the nipples don't need to be tagged and can appear on a thumbnail.

I would like an honest answer as to WHY, this is being done?
That has been answered in the Front Page article.

Why can't the verbage of this change just state that the thumbs must be neutral and  and leave it there?
Define "neutral"... Members ask us to be specific with rulings. Terms like "neutral", "non-offensive", or "tasteful" are subjective and mean wildly different things to different folks. Hence, we have produced a short list of guidelines so that everyone will know what is acceptable, and what is not.

I like the new rule.  Maybe, this place will become less of a joke in the CG world.  I agree that this will (hopefully) make the gallery appear to be more professional.  As it stands, so many here claim to be "Pin Up" artists.  Okay, good enough.  Since folks don't like the idea of a "nude" or "non nude" gallery, and since "Pin Ups" comprise so much of the Poser gallery....Why not a "Pin Up" gallery?  And that gallery could have the thumbs they want.

Without all the tits stealing attention, I am really hoping folks click on some dragons and such.  Maybe even folks will venture into some of the non Poser galleries.  Everyone knows that "tits get hits"....been a mantra around here for a long time.  I think that saying....I use huge boobs in my thumbnails....not to get hits, but, because that is what best portrays the mood of my image"...is a crock.  Plain and simple.

Thanks for the change.

Pop...Pop...Poppi!!! (She who hasn't "popped" here for a long, long time.)

**Poppi good point! I think the "No Thumbnail" rule would help people look at other art. I think, altho I love Vargas and Olivia's style, that Pin-Up is a bit more prominanent and does tend to be a lot of what is on the board. I like all styles and look at several different pics daily, to see what's new and interesting out there. Giant Boobs aren't my thing, but then I don't care either. Mainly I just would like to see the childish rules go to a level where, if you are going to do this, just slit the throat and be done with it! Don't have thumbnails at all. If all some people are here for is cheap thrills...go to Renderotica! Guarenteed to see some of what you want! No fuss, No muss! Otherwise a No Thumbnail rule makes all the problems go away! Plus IF people did post in the correct galleries, a lot of this may have been avoided as well. But that is another story.

Karen, the front page article doesn't really explain it! It just tells you that the policy has changed. How about putting it to a vote and MAJORITY wins the poll!? Instead of the current tail between the legs cave in to puritist pressures? How many complain as to those who don't? A poll would be interesting to see. As for DL's question...A good 75% of women show their Nipples in a thin shirt daily in this society! Lot's of "CLEAN" artists here, show nip's in their neutral art! I have Nips! Do you suggest that I put Tape over them? I am in public every day! They are a Natural part of the HUMAN ANATOMY!  The reason this is censorship is that you are reacting to the Human body as if it were something "Dirty" I thought we progressed beyond that! If it was a thumbnail of the "Venus De Milo" would we have to "Clean" that up? Wait how about a Rueben's? You know those big plump bottoms! Censorship is a vile and dangerous path.  I was watching the Discovery Channel the other nite, and a very promenant Astro Physicist was on, and her Nips were quite prominant. I fail to see  where they interferred with her mind or the Jupiter lander she was speaking of. Just an example. If you can't have a thumbnail that everyone can see...when will it be anyone in society? Seriously!
The only reason it is titallating to anyone is the conotation we put on it when we act like it is "Naughty"!!!!!

Finally, this is a silly problem. Too many people are busy telling others how to and what to do in life, art and society. Wake up people...your civil liberties and rights are like sand in an hour glass....just trickling away. If people would just stop being the moralities police, and worry about their own selves, this would not be happening in this community, internet (yes, it isn't just here), and nation. Break out those neutral gray thick polyester pantsuits, 1984, a bit late is right around the corner!
A_*

Desert,

If you have read this forum thread, the FP article, and the opinions posted by me in that FP article, you will note that I have said numerous times that We Did Not Make This Decision based on the fact that some members don't like the "in your face" t&a. We made it based on SEVERAL factors and they are discussed in the FP article.  

This is a policy change on THUMBNAILS only, not the full image

ATT MODS:
 Please advise me when the "suggestive" language was added?

Thank You,
Marianne

"Tasteful breast exposure only is allowed. No areola or nipple exposure, and no transparent fabric.
No exposed buttocks – more exposure than a standard bikini bottom would constitute nudity.
No exposed male or female genitals
No Sexually Suggestive Language or "Censored" language/images."

When was the "suggestive" language added as I did not see it in the announcement?

It was added yesterday due to members asking if this would be allowed and we are not allowing this type of thumbnails for the galleries to keep consistent throughout the site.

Thank You for answering. So this pertains only to the thumbnail image and not the "title" of the work? Hate to be a bother, just want to make sure I follow the rules.

The title of your image would fall under the same rules as before.

Hmmmm, I see. lol
So what words are suggestive as I will make a list and keep it by my computer?