Whoah, like, noo waay...

Just consider yourselves lucky I can't bring back the Tavern and C&D! .......snicker.....

I miss the C&D forum. There was nothing better than watching a good train wreck after a hard day at work. ;)

Rich

"I'm not bringing this site down to ANY level. I'm making sure the MEMBERS have a place where they can post their opinions without having to worry about them being deleted because of "unpopular" content.

If you are suggesting I practice censorship and start deleting members' posts because they state an opinion you don't like, I can assure you that I won't be the only one to tell you that you're barking up a VERY wrong ""

Yeah, freedom was a very cool thing. Too bad it had to end. Alas, censorship reigns supreme in the Poserverse now.

Quote - I miss the C&D forum. There was nothing better than watching a good train wreck after a hard day at work. ;)

Rich

Got that right, Rich.
Good to see you again, man. :)

Thanks Mike, It's good to be back! Glad to see yer still around. :)

Rich

Funny....I was just writing about this the other night...

Actually...I was surprised to see Legume's posts "At ALL"

I thought he went through and hand deleted them all before he left.

FWIW..Roy is absolutely correct...He owned the domain name, and Programmed / Maintained the site. He had every right to do with it as he pleased including the re-direct. As far as the link in "Poser"...it's not the domain holders responsibility to "Re-Direct" the link...It would have been up to Meta Creations (Which  owned Poser at that time IIRC...maybe Curious Labs by then)... to release a patch that updated the link to the appropriate site.

Sites come and go...and if a site ceases to exist any longer...or acquires a new address....the "Developer of the Software" needs to either remove or update the link,(whichever is appropriate) via a patch, or simply send out instructions to all registered users on how to hack the link file (which is probably easier than deploying a patch...just to modify a link)

Anyway... it ""IS" things like this (Maintaining good relations with the Software Developers and other Sponsor's) that make it difficult to have an all out "Uncensored" site... If developer "X" supports site "Y" by putting a link in thier software, manuals, website, or other publication, and site "Y" becomes a "Free For All" or becomes a site which display's or allows that which Developer "X" doesn't approve of, or decides has become that which isn't consistent with what they want thier name associated with...How long do you think it will be before Developer "X" Stops Supporting Site "Y" ?

(Takes Breath...Damn..that was a long sentence.)

Sure..we all want to be able to speak our mind uncensored, and many..if not most, folks have the ability to "Self Sensor" themselves, even if there were no restricting rules....But as I mentioned in another thread recently...Perhaps not verbatim..."The membership (including Vendors) are not the only source of revenue for a site this size" Sure...Without a member-base...there is no site...but folks need to realize that there are other forces at work going on behind the scenes that enable a site of this size to remain in existence.

The old PFO(.org) is a perfect example of one that didn't want to be a commercial site, and as such, got to the point where it was either find ways for the site to be "Self Supporting" or close altogether.... Pay up....or Close up...

What good is it to the membership...if a site has no other option but to shut down, due to lack of finances?

Those finances must come from "Other Sources" than just members  buying stuff in the Marketplace, when a site gets this big.

 Sorry to go on so long (Again...lol) I'm simply trying to provide some food for thought...for the next time the "Censorship" card gets played.

There are others, outside the membership, that participate in generating revenue for the site, that also need to be taken into consideration.

It's a delicate tight-rope act,that site owners must perform every day, in order to try and maintain a balance between pleasing the member-base, and satisfying the demands of other,"outside" sources.

Both are "Needed" to support the site, and not everyone is going to be pleased or satisfied.

Nice find Spiritbro...Again...it's strange that I was writing about this very thing not 2 days ago.

You got me wanting to dig up more old stuff like this.

Those were the days eh?

Tom

Yep, those were the days. I've found a lot of old threads that are quite interesting. I didn't realize some of this stuff could still be found. I understand what you were saying about outside sources, but if it gets to the point you have to lock every heated thread and ban anyone that rocks the boat, whats the point of having an art site? The bottom line and increased revenue may be enough reason for site owners, but it's not much consolation for us members. At least the members that value freedom, the ones that LIKE the disneyfication on the other hand are happy little lemmings :) Anyway, things are as they are, nothings going to change that. Just found it cool to relive a time when things were more free. Voting for Mods? Members voices being sacred? Wow . Of course I found some horrific things as well. I didn't know there was a public trial and subsequent execution of Dillinger.

nice post tom and an intersting read spirit.

i see people talking about censorship as though it only happens here. that art doesn't get censored is a crock imo. no one can censor what an artist creates but almost every artist that shows work can find themselves on the receiving end of censorship. go to any art gallery on the high street. usually they'll show two maybe three styles of work. take a piece of art in that isn't  what they want and they won't entertain you. in real life, censorship is much more in your face than asking someone to do non nude thumbs of their work. in real life the artwork is often refused a showing because it doesn't fit in with a galleries theme, you're not established, it's the wrong colour, it's the wrong medium, we only show females artwork, we only show gay peoples artwork, we only show what we want to show etc etc. argue the point about thumbnails by all means but dont talk about it as the beand end all of censorship as it relates to art. no one is saying you can't paint this or that, they're saying they'll show what they want to show, which is their perogative. i can't believe all the spilled tears by so called artists crying foul. if you want to show your artwork without it being censored create a site of your own or hand the piece on your front door.  true censorship is not the refusal to show a piece of art by someone but to stop them from creating the piece of art in the first place. putting a book on a banned list at school is on a localised censorship. burning all the copies is real censorship. jmo

billy

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I wasn't refering to the thumbnail contorversy. I do think it's stupid, especially when it gets to the point that a Davinci work gets pulled. But we're talking here about having a voice. And being allowed to express that voice without getting banned and having the thread locked. Mainly though it's just re-living the old days. Times past when things were a little more exciting around here. Site wars, controversy,fun fun fun lol. I miss those days, and I miss many of the big names from those days that have long gone elsewhere.

Oh...Horrific Thing's..C'mon Spiritbro...send me some links man...lol 

I can only speak for the handful of forums I read here...but the only threads I've seen locked were ones in which someone who seemed to commit his every waking hour to "Rocking The Boat". (who shoulda been bitch-slapped and showed the door long ago IMHO).. Other than that...I've seen recent "heated" threads regarding the recent thumbnail policy go on for over a dozen pages....Again...I only read about a half dozen forums here so there may very well be other threads locked that I'm unaware of. So I can not completely agree, nor disagree with you regard the "Locking of every heated thread" and I've not been privy to any info regarding banning's.

    We go way back...you and I...and my post certainly wasn't meant to educate you on what is involved in managing a site of this magnitude...I do apologize if it came across that way...but I assure you that was not my intent....So you and I know there is a significant difference between "Heated, Opinionated Threads", and downright "Trolling and Harassment".

 My intent was to illustrate that a site of this size, comes with sizeable cost's. This Site,by it's very nature (An Art Site), is Graphic Intensive, with probably more daily "Image" uploads and downloads than probably any other site I frequent, and probably more than some of them combined. Then there's the store uploads and downloads, not to mention the Testers downloading EVERY Product for testing ranging from at least once, to sometimes several times per product.( And subsequent Re-uploads from the Vendors with each new Release Candidate )...Of course there are the images uploaded and downloaded to the Store Front, various forum threads,...free stuff and tutorials sections, .etc.

Add all that up, and that's an ass-load of bandwidth and transfer...that doesn't even include the more cache-able images like Forum headers and the Vendor's banners in rotation.

And that's just the bandwidth draw....Then there are the Server,Storage, and Back-Up costs...Programming, Research, Development, Software, Staff Employment, Gas and Travel cost's [Air Fare] to various Conventions like SIGGRAPH,.... Advertising and Promotion,etc...Along with Brick and Mortar cost's such as Leasing, Insurance, Computers (Networked), More Software, Office and Supply costs. and probably several other expenses I've left out like Attorney Retainers and Fees, Accountant's fees, Bookkeeping, Taxes, General Business Licensing cost's, right down the line from the guy who cut's the grass in the Summer...to the guy who plows the snow in the parking lot in the Winter.

The above is just the long version of "It's cost's a lot to Have,and Maintain a site of This Size" (Notice how I keep mentioning "Size"?)

Cost's that many might not even think about....and no matter how much the Store is bringing in, it's not enough to cover the expenses needed to Keep the site "As A FREE Resource". Those cost's must be off-set by "Other Sources" (Described in my earlier post).

So the "Increased Revenue"... IS  the Consolation for the members...it assures that the site perpetuates and is here as a "FREE" resource for Existing Members...as well as the newbie who signs up tomorrow.

Gone are the days when there was the "No Holds Barred" atmosphere.( Which is unfortunate... because we did have some fun times back then as well as witnessed horrific train wreck's...lol)

OKAY... here is where it all comes together....

It's Because of the site's success, that we have the "conditions" we have today.

Yeah...I remember Voting for Mods...lol...but I also remember that no one out-side the membership showed any interest in supporting the site.(Other than maybe Curious Labs, and a then  very small content provider known as DAZ )

No Software Developers would even return an e-mail or phone call....It wasn't until the numbers started to grow (From hard work and dedication from both Membership and Staff), that Developers would even show an interest at all. Then...We at least had a chance to convince some of them to take a chance on us....At first...it might be providing prizes for a contest...I mean...how much would that cost them?...Not much....But then they saw a significant increase in interest and sales of thier product(s).

And as their numbers grew...so did the site's membership.

Now we had a foot-hold, a bit of leverage...and learned how to convince other Developers of the potential value in the exposure and promotion of thier product(s) on a large site,in front of thousands of  "Like Minded " member's. Many of which would become their future customer base.

And as their numbers grew...so did the site's membership.

So...one could say we are victims of our own success...It's because of the relationships established with these other sources, that both the Developers and the Site Membership numbers have grown. The momentum of that growth has resulted in a sort of  "Symbiotic Co-Dependency"  between the Membership, The Site Owners, and the Developers. Without 1, the others suffer. Thus the motivation for each to "accommodate" the others.

Part of that "Accommodating" is what results in atmosphere we have today.As I mentioned...Some have the ability to "Self Censor", whether rules governing them are in place or not...and Still manage to have a heated, yet respectful debate. Others, either simply don't have that ability, or just choose not to use it.

And as the site's membership grew...so did the number of rules.

So...The "Disneyification" could be seen, at least in part, our own fault.

8 )

BTW..Who's Dillinger?

Tom

Whoa..I missed a couple of post while writing that last Novel.

Quote - This Site,by it's very nature (An Art Site), is Graphic Intensive, with probably more daily "Image" uploads and downloads than probably any other site I frequent, and probably more than some of them combined. Then there's the store uploads and downloads, not to mention the Testers downloading EVERY Product for testing ranging from at least once, to sometimes several times per product.( And subsequent Re-uploads from the Vendors with each new Release Candidate )...Of course there are the images uploaded and downloaded to the Store Front, various forum threads,...free stuff and tutorials sections, .etc. 

Add all that up, and that's an ass-load of bandwidth and transfer...that doesn't even include the more cache-able images like Forum headers and the Vendor's banners in rotation.

 

And that's just the bandwidth draw....Then there are the Server,Storage, and Back-Up costs...Programming, Research, Development, Software, Staff Employment, Gas and Travel cost's [Air Fare] to various Conventions like SIGGRAPH,.... Advertising and Promotion,etc...Along with Brick and Mortar cost's such as Leasing, Insurance, Computers (Networked), More Software, Office and Supply costs. and probably several other expenses I've left out like Attorney Retainers and Fees, Accountant's fees, Bookkeeping, Taxes, General Business Licensing cost's, right down the line from the guy who cut's the grass in the Summer...to the guy who plows the snow in the parking lot in the Winter.

Whoa..Even I didn't think about all that....:scared:...but ya fergot sompin'......the cost of jelly. :lol:

Dillinger was a member back in the old days. Tim had a public "trial" and subsequent "execution" where he was banned.

***And as the number of rules grew...so did the site's need for jelly.

**8 )

Tom*

Hey, ya know how much jelly we gotta go thru??....and if it catches on that its fun, we're gonna be in the deep doo-doo...:m_shhh:

:lol:

OH...I remember that now...I was at another site by then though.
I think that may have been one of the last  of the pubic banning's here...which ultimately ended even announcing the banning's.....lol

Yep.....back then...If you got banned..it was posted publicly.

Hey... News was News...and that front page wasn't going to fill up by itself...lol

Tom

I agree Rosity is a victim of it's own "success". We're all victims too! lol I guess I just miss the days when members were considered important and listened to. Now it seems if you're not a big name merchant you're not really considered part of the equation. Alas, Rosity outgrew the community spirit. It's big business now and while I can see that in some ways thats good, I kind of miss the bad old days when it was  wild and free. And while there were many flames and fights( and I didn't mind that), there was also more of a sense of community you know?  
While all thats true, I am also a realist. Things have changed(and have been for a long time) and they won't change back. So basically I'm just having a walk down memory lane, when I really did like coming here and felt like I was part of the community. Peace Brother.

Yeah...once the momentum started...there was no turning back....This place has become bigger than what most could have envisioned back then... I mean...it's got it's own gravity and magnetic field now.

8 )

"And while there were many flames and fights( and I didn't mind that), there was also more of a sense of community you know?"

I totally agree with that...perhaps it was because it was a smaller member-base back then...but there was a more solid sense of unity over-all.

It would be interesting to have a "What Ever Happened To..."  Thread...and try to find out where some of those Old name's are now.

Waitaminnit...let's not let our nostalgia cloud are good judgment....I mean...we might uncover the whereabouts of those we "Don't" wanna find....lol

Tom <~~~ Kidding...I think it would be cool to find some of those old friends.

[Quote]...that's an ass-load of bandwidth...[/Quote]

Wait, you're not suggesting that most of what is uploaded and downloaded here is $h*t, are you?
Sorry, but I was trying to find the complaint, figured that was it.

OK, now I wanna know two things:

1. Why can't I type in the quote stuff and have it work?
2. How come there's no "Last" page in this thread to click on?

Back then..

Mike, I think you need to type in small 'Q's for the quotes to work,

Quote - [Quote]...that's an ass-load of bandwidth...[/Quote]

 and # 2..I think it has to have 5 pages before the system gives the option of last? {Im not sure on that last one tho...but I think thats what it is}

Quote - Mike, I think you need to type in small 'Q's for the quotes to work,

OK, jumpy, will try. :)

Quote - and # 2..I think it has to have 5 pages before the system gives the option of last? {Im not sure on that last one tho...but I think thats what it is}

Was a lame nod to an ongoing joke. ;)

Yeah, the quote thing worked, but one may wonder why in all the world of html, case matters not, except here...
Then again, this is Renderosity - its particular version of PHPbb/NonPHPbb is just a tad different from what the whole of the rest of the world is used to, for practical reasons, of course.

Quote - Was a lame nod to an ongoing joke. ;)

Ohhhh...I remember that one LOL

Sorry...Im one sick puppy right now ...blasted stomach bug crud...crawls off to bed

"Sorry, but I was trying to find the complaint, figured that was it."

I'm trying to work on my selfishness...I figured I'd not only give someone else the opportunity of getting COM (Complainer Of the Month), But I'd even set the stage for them as well.

8 )

Tom

Well, dammit, I wanna get COM for a change. Jeez, I've been bitching, complaining and yes, even whining for years, all for...what? No recognition, none at all. I'd expect my fellow 'plainers would step up and put in a good word, but...noooo...
And then you simple 'plainers pop on in with your petty 'plaints and walk away with all the accolades.
Humph...and you can quote me on that.

Quote - Jeez, I've been bitching, complaining and yes, even whining for years...

Yep.  Good 'ole Mikey even tried to winge outta bein' a Vue mod once upon a time.  Check out page 2.  Ya gotta love Kate & her Porta-Cano 2000's.....angelic grin.

Quote - Humph...and you can quote me on that.

Don't mind if I take you up on that do you, Mike? ;-]

Yanno, I kinda feel like I missed out on some type of R'osity initiation thingy by not getting to experience the VT or the C&D forums.  From all I've heard and read, a very inneresting time was had by many who frequented those now long lost bastions of conversation and discourse. It sounds like it got hotter than Hades now & then, but what a way to better discover just who you're hanging out with when surfing by these here parts.

Yeah Arry, but the modern Poserite can't handle that kind of freedom. Their little heads would go all esplody. :) They can't even take a mild critique of their work without crying to the mods. But you're right, you missed some really exciting times back in the day.

Arry!
'bro!
Is great to see y'all here. What're the odds, yanno?

"Oh, how cool," He said with a twisted smile halfway 'tween shock and irritation....
Jeez, I was such a dork. At least the Vue people were cool. :)

Umm, arry, we need to talk, I think.

Anyway....Arry...You kinda had to be aware of the overall 2D/3D climate back then....Things were changing fast, and the community was bustin at the seams...It didn't take much to send even the most well behaved off on a rant.

"No... You said This...So I said that...but So-and-So said things, that made me think you meant That...and then..in post 11 you said"........" so I thought you were referring to what I said in post 8...but you said you were replying to what What's-His-Face said two threads ago.provides link...So what did you mean when you said......"

Gawd...it went on forever like that sometimes....it got so confusing at times...you didn't know what the hell was going on.

Then everyone had a group hug, and then started a new fight....that is...everyone except those who got banned....they just started a new "Bash Thread" at another site...

Hey Spiritbro....remember the "Soup Kitchen"?....lol

Man..we were some lost sons-a-bitches back then...lmao

Tom 

8 )

Quote - Umm, arry, we need to talk, I think.

Uh-oh. 

waves at Tom & 'Bro

Crikey, Tom.  The things you put those poor cats through.
I'm amazed they haven't yet turned into some weird Stephen King type reanimated monsters.

Or perhaps......they have. =:-O

Quote - Crikey, Tom.  The things you put those poor cats through.
I'm amazed they haven't yet turned into some weird Stephen King type reanimated monsters.

Or perhaps......they have. =:-O

Yes, sadly, Tom actually died in 1999, during the vast celebration of the pending new Millenium. Some say it was drinking that glowing orange goo we were cooking in the kitchen. Others say it was part of some bizarre ritual attempting to invoke the very 3D gods themselves at midnight. 

We may never know, and it doesn't matter now. What we do know is that his spirit entered the Internet on that fateful night, and now he lives on through his ability to post forum messages and strange, mystical cat-images. A personality as strong as his could never truly fade away, and we count ourselves lucky to still have him with us in this form.

RIP, dude, RIP.

:lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol: :biggrin: :lol:

I was here in time to witness the death of C&D.....followed by the OT forum & the VT forum.........followed by the Den.

The top of the page says "3428 artists online".

But nahhhh........the management around here doesn't have a clue about what they are doing.  If only they had listened to reason back in them there good 'ol days.........if they had, then perhaps now they'd be just as big as.......other places.  Perhaps they'd have 25 members online at any given time(!)........on an especially good day.

'Way to go, Tim.  And thank you.  We've now got a great site -- a place where we can get just about anything 3D-related: whether it be information or products.

Xeno, how do you know that the site wouldn't be just as big if the C&D, Bar etc. survived? And since when is "Big" always better? Go take a look through the Bryce or Poser gallery and tell me things are better now than they were back in the day. Bigger isn't always better man, but I don't expect you to understand that.

Oh, I understand it, alright.  But even though "bigger isn't always better" -- in this case I'd say that it is. 

And as for this site being "just as big" if it had continued on as it was in a former era -- I'd say that no, it wouldn't be.  That type of atmosphere drives away far more people than it attracts.  Although, admittedly, it does attract some.  And there are places for those "some" to go & practice their "freedom" upon each other's heads.  "Freedom", of course -- meaning the right to bash skulls unhindered by anything so disney-fied as enforced rules of semi-civilized behavior towards one's fellow man.

Trust me -- I can handle living in Hell's Kitchen.  Even at midnight.  But why on earth would I want to?

Attempt to explain Rendo's success away in any manner that you like.  IMO, the facts of the case speak for themselves far more loudly than any ideology does.

Drives who away? Most of the thousands of members you use as proof of success don't take part in the forums. Never did, never will. And all the years since C&D closed hasn't changed that. Look, no one's calling for a return to freedom. Most of the Rosity members still around couldn't handle not having cat hearders tell them how to act, feel, post, what art they should create etc..Without such structure their little heads would go all esplody. 
I was just taking a walk down memory lane and remembering how nice it was to actually be part of a community. Your opinion is it's better now? Well, thats your belief. I believe it was better back in the day, when there was a sense of community.When members were more self reliant. When it really WAS about the art, and not how much crap you could sell. 

There are other sites which I visit regularly & enjoy -- I have nothing specific against them.  However, as we all have only 24 hours in each day, and as we have real lives that demand our attention, too.....it's simply impossible to participate full-time at them all.

I am about as independently-minded as they come.  I don't take "marching orders" from anyone.  And I consider this website to be my home base in the Poserverse.  Judging from all of the evidence that I can see, a lot of other people agree with me.

As for whether or not my fellow site-members are "a bunch of lemmings" -- or whatever other epitah that anyone cares to use to indicate their inherent worthlessness as human beings -- frankly, I don't let such matters bother me a bit.  I figure that I am responsible for the choices made by ONE individual -- myself.  And I figure that other people's business is their own.  So I don't lose any sleep over worrying about their motives for doing whatever it is that they choose to do.  So long as they sign the social contract -- and agree to treat each other with a minimum level of respect.

"Personal Freedom" is restricted by the fact that there are other people in the world.  We face this problem from our earliest days.  And this can be a very hard lesson to learn.  And in some societies (including in some online communties), this lesson is never learned.  So -- as a result -- it comes down to being all about ME.  Others be damned.  So I'll abuse them, call them names, and verbally gut them in any way that pleases ME.  After all, I am the smartest one in the room -- it's just that the rest of those idiots out there don't have the brains to realize that obvious fact.  So it's my goal in life to go about proving that fact on their pathetic heads.

There is a powerful case to be made for effective moderation.  Lots of other sites are far more tightly moderated than this one is.  At many websites this type of thread would be stillborn.  It simply wouldn't be allowed to be posted at all.  And yet here we are -- openly speaking our minds.  So long as it's done within the fairly loose bounds of the TOS, then we won't be instructed to shut up.  You (or anyone) can come in here and criticize the PTB.  It happens all of the time.

But when/if it becomes clear that someone is engaging in a thread merely to stir the pot -- as occurs from time to time -- then it's all judged on a case-by-case basis.  IMO, that's about the best way that there is to run things.

Even the so-called "free policy" (hee, hee) sites have been known to kick out members for various infractions of whatever their rules happen to be.  And Rendo has every bit as much right to enforce its policies as those other sites have to enforce theirs.

There's always USENET for total anarchists.  Just watch out in there.  The problem with a jungle-like environment is the constant need to look over your shoulder.

shrug  Most people don't want to live that way.  And I don't blame them.  "Lemmings", "sheep".....whatever that makes them out to be.

" Attempt to explain Rendo's success away in any manner that you like.  IMO, the facts of the case speak for themselves far more loudly than any ideology does."

Only problem, Xenophonz, is that facts are just the raw material for further analysis.

Here.. why is Newgrounds, according to Alexa, ranked at #660 while Renderosity hangs around at #10,667? 

Both sites feature a specific kind of computer art - Newgrounds is a community gallery for Flash, while Renderosity is a community gallery for 3D pictures.

Both sites had a wild, anything-goes start.  Early Newgrounds Flash was downright shocking and undergound; Renderosity pictures used to have the content that's now gotten shuffled off to Renderotica.

Newgrounds took the philosophy: "Everything, by everyone."  Their sole criteria for being allowed or removed?  Peer review.  (They do say that you can't have "excessively pornographic" Flashes, but from long experience at Newgrounds, I can assure you that sentence is mostly for show.)

Renderosity took the philosophy: "Become more appealing to the mainstream."  Detailed and specific criteria for what's allowed or not in the Terms of Service.  (Helpful diagrams sometimes!)

Both sites went up in size and traffic over time - sites do that.  They grow.  If they get into a good position, a social gravity takes over; people see a site is big, choose it over others to get more eyeballs and community to work with, and soon enough, the big site is the biggest site.

But why has Newgrounds grown up from such humble, one-man beginnings to become the bleeding edge of Flash entertainment for the world, while Renderosity churns its wheels, a big fish among other 3D sites - much like how Newgrounds is a big fish among other Flash sites - but unable to break through to true prominence?

"- but unable to break through to true prominence?"

I'm not sure I understand you last paragraph.

"Which Site" are you implying is "unable to break through to true prominence?"

Renderosity?...or Newgrounds"?

Tom

shrug

I'd say that users of Flash animations represent a far larger proportion of web traffic than do heavy 3D-only users.  Insofar as I know, Rendo is the largest of all of the specifically 3D-oriented sites, outside of DAZ - the two are roughly equal, traffic-wise.  And I'd say this is due to the fact that Rendo and DAZ largely share the same audience.  And BTW - DAZ is another site that gets sharply criticized for its mod policies, too.  And yet in spite of that -- DAZ is another huge success story.

You can always find larger sites.  But you need to compare apples with apples.

Myspace beats 'em all by a huge margin.  But Myspace is a totally different type of site.

Let me add that 3D CGI (although this statement might get me into trouble with some) is itself a subject with niche appeal.  There are only just so many people around who are interested in the topic.

Collectors of ceramic bric-a-brac probably represent a far larger population.  But I don't intend to switch hobbies for that reason.

"'Way to go, Tim.  And thank you.  We've now got a great site -- a place where we can get just about anything 3D-related: whether it be information or products."

Yeah..."anything 3D-related"...
Don't you really mean Poser-related?
Cause, like it or not, this place ain't exactly cutting-edge 3D and all.
Dunno about you, but I check out the Newtek forum and CG Forums if I want to know about the world of 3D. This place is Poser, Poser, and more Poser: How Bryce relates to Poser, How Modo can be used with Poser, How (GAH!) 3dsmax can be used to enhance Poser...how the above things can be used to make and sell Posercrap, how far better apps can be lowered to the Posersphere.....
I could go on - please, ask me to do so...

The place is what it is. But, a cutting-edge 3D site, this ain't. It's a store that sells Poser stuff, with a group of forums with the idea of supporting that intent.

This site has active communities centered around a lot of different 3D & 2D applications.  Sure, Poser is the main draw -- but that makes sense when one considers the fact that this has been a Poser-oriented site from its very inception.  And that's fine with me -- and it appears to be just fine with a lot of other people, too.

However -- you can feel free to become involved in any of the high-end app forums here.  They all have active & very skilled members in them.  As well as beginners.

Another thing -- Renderosity is a meeting ground for the hobbiest and for the true 3D professional.  And for all intermediate types, too.

Some individuals point to the galleries and say "see how pedestrian".  I point to the galleries and say "Beginners are welcome here.  Please feel at home."

Not all of us can work for ILM.  Some of us merely render Poser scenes for little more than our own personal pleasure.  But those who are at the ILM level sure can help the rest of us to find our way along as we stumble around in the dark.  And many of the ILM-class 3D experts do patiently field and answer our newbie questions.  Because they are friendly & helpful that way.  Constructive.  And their reputations follow them.

As I stated earlier: insofar as I know, this is the LARGEST and the most heavily-trafficiked of all specifically 3D-oriented sites -- along with DAZ.  There must be a reason for that.  A reason that can't just be swept under the rug.

There is a reason for that, for sure - The vast majority of people here are hobbyists, people entertained by being able to make CG art with Poser. And, there's nothing  at all wrong with that; alot of those people will become professionals, having become interested and inspired here.
All I was responding to was the implication that this site is a contender in the world of 3D CG. True, there's alot of fantastic CG art here, but to imply that you can "get just about anything 3D-related" here is just wrong: I don't see them selling V-ray, I don't see them selling FPrime, Syflex, Maxwell Render, or Project:Messiah. I see no mention of Netimmerse Gamebryo, very little on FBX...

You see alot of little skimpy click-to-apply outfits for Vicki, though, along with the obligatory prefab morph-and-pose pack.

Renderosity does have forum support for 3DS, Lightwave, C4D, XSI, Maya -- and others.

The items which you've mentioned have very limited user bases.  Cost being one factor.  You'll find them mentioned in the high-end app forums here in conjunction with other discussions.

I have Lightwave.

"Cutting edge" -- it's right here.  But you aren't likely to find any used NAS servers being offered up for sale.  They have a rather limited customer base.  Whereas Poser-related items appeal to a large number of people -- be they ever so humble hobbyists.

"If you have to ask how much that software/hardware combination costs, then you definitely can't afford it.  (Peasant.......)"

You'll remember, I trust, that the part of this discussion where I first started disagreeing with you began with the implication that we can "get just about anything 3D-related" here.
It's my assertion that that's not true, and I could probably come up with a thousand more examples if I had to.

Renderosity began as a Poser emporium, and that's essentially what it remains, in spite of it's weak attempts to break out beyond. It's basically the Amazon of the Poserverse.
It is astonishing, though - I would think that for all the members - for all the latent potential to become something bigger, it still does its best to appeal to the wannabees with promotions like "Monet Monday" and such, which are pretentious, at best. (Not to mention the laughable Rudy Sarzo thing).

I get the feeling that no matter what Rendo did, you'd find fault with it.

And yes -- you CAN get "just about anything 3D-related" here.  Including being pointed to the sources for whatever re-sources that you might happen to need.  This isn't the Newtek site -- Newtek has their own site.  But if someone needs to know about Newtek, then this isn't a bad place to ask for help from those who are willing.  The Newtek site itself can be a bit bewildering for the newbie.  But the LW forum here isn't.  Although it is frequented by LW pros.  If someone doesn't understand, then they can always ask.

And if someone needs to know about Maxwell, then they can ask about it in the appropriate forums.

I wouldn't go into the Poser forum to inquire about plug-ins for LW.  But there are people who frequent the Poser forum that would know the answers.

My inclination is to look at the positive aspects of the situation.  But that's just me.