or is V4 uglier than V3?  she has extremely blunt masculine features compared to V3 imo; but she might very well have more flexibility with facial morphs which could of course make this a moot point.

That said i'm not having much luck making her look very feminine so does anyone have some recommendations for good face/character packs?  i'm having trouble finding many that get rid of that "V4 look"

her body is a massive improvement, i'm just having issues with the head.

Here we go again...

HAHA bag her head...

As long as the body is bangin' right? wink

I have noticed that many V4 renders have samey face morphs.

I personally have found her head to be quite flexible. I'll post an example later today of how she can be quite feminine, and very un-V4.

I suggest to keep at it rather than using third party character morphs. It'll click for you soon enough.

Out of the box most of the figures would require a bone tied around their necks to get the dog to play with them... especially Jessi.

However, with different textures and some morphs, most figures improve considerably. I've seen some very pretty images in the gallery with V4 and I've been thinking of getting her after all.  However, this isn't true or all figures....Jessi for example.  To me she's a hopeless case and looks like an alien from outerspace no matter what.

I too think she IS plainer than V3 out of the box .
It took me a while playing around with her to get used to her features and how things worked.
I do really like her now (in fact my first MP product here is a V4) but I still have a big soft spot for V3 :)

Sorry I think V3 is built like linebacker or a dock worker but I still love her anyway. But I really do enjoy working with V4 and I have to tell ya I'm liking working with Jessie G2 as well.

i always thought jessi was underrated myself.

i guess her "everwoman" look is appealing for flexibility, but if you look at 99.9% of gallery or product renders, it's the smoking hot characters that grab everyone's attention.

i do like V4, i think i'm probably just too new at her to really get a handle on the face.  i'm trying to make that really sharp featured look, and she seems pretty intent on maintaining a really round boyish look.  just need more practice i guess.

If it helps any Darkworld it's taking me time to  catch on to V4's face too and the things that can be done with it. One thing that threw me off on V4's dials are some of the names of the different morphs like "blink" on V4 it's "Eyes open/close". But I think V4 has the potential for more realistic expressions it's just learning to tweak the dials and what they do takes a little time at least for me anyway. I've gotten some pretty amazing expressions out of V4 that I could not with V3.

Attached Link: V4 under the hood

Sigh. Look, almost EVERYONE cares what a mesh looks like out of the box.

Judy is the best example for that. Her mesh was superior to V1/2 and she came FREE with Poser, but she got completely ignored because she looked like crap.
(And all you need to do to make her at least decent looking is to apply the standard face-room face to her. Takes about 2 minutes.)

MIKI on the other hand is rigged and modelled like crap, but people still love her because she is cute.

V4 is definitely not as ugly as Judy, but she's far from being as cute as V2 or MIKI, or even V3.
She has a long, cow like face, a flat forehead, and oversized eyes that really don't match the rest of the face.
It's almost as if someone gave her that big child or Anime like eyes, and then got scared and made the rest of the face intentionally "adult" so that noone could accuse her of looking underage.

And while V3 might also not be THAT pretty out of the box, she easily can be made into a stunner with just a few dial spins. And that's where V4 really fails miserably, because each of her default "face morphs" looks even worse than the other.

Having said that, just like any other mesh out there, V4 of course CAN be made pretty, but it really takes a bit more effort than just spinning some dials.
(See attached pic. Morph made with magnets and ZB 2)

The comparison pic also shows that the muscles that go into V4's nose are way overemphaziised. This makes her looking mature and "grumpy" even in the default state. It gets even worse when you apply expression morphs.

I've never found Miki to be the least bit attractive.  In fact I've never found any of the figures to be the least bit attractive unconfigured.  Your personal preference is meaningless to me.  You're making flat, objective statements about something that's entirely subjective - and irrelevant anyway, who cares what a figure looks like out of the box?  You will never ever ever use a poser figure unmorphed unless you just don't know any better.  Personally I'd just as soon she looked like a bowling ball out of the box.

well i guess that's the issue i have run into, V2 and V3 took very little work to look extremely photogenic, so to speak, and messing around with dials with V4 for me i still have that cavewoman look lol.

it's clearly a LOT harder to get a good look out of her, but i'm gonna keep at it till i get it ;)

Please don't be absurd.

I just gave you two examples that perfectly show that the overwhelming majority (As in 99.99%) of Poser users DO care what a figure looks like out of the box.

And OF COURSE beauty can be objectively measured and defined:

http://www.beautyanalysis.com
http://www.faceresearch.org/

Children look like children because that is what the human brain is hardwired to find pretty.
(So offspring has a better chance of survival)

So the more "childlike" a female face looks,  plus some adult traits mixed in to assure her fertility, the more attractive a woman becomes.
Add a high rate of symmetry and a healthy skin and you have "stunning" looks.

Noone said there isn't still some room for individualism here, so one person might find Angelina Jollie more attractive than Milla Jojovich or Marylin Monroe more atractive than Ann Magret, but the GENERAL rules about what makes a woman beautifull and what not are pretty much written in stone.

And of course there are individuals with perverted tastes that are  only attracted to hideously ugly or morbidly obese woman, but these are by far the minority, and last time I checked DAZ was a buisiness who tries to make as much money as possible, so I doubt they suddenly discovered their heart for minorities.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote - I just gave you two examples that perfectly show that the overwhelming majority (As in 99.99%) of Poser users DO care what a figure looks like out of the box.

When you post stupid nonsense like that, you're pretty much done, unless you have some sort of survey or something.  Are only one in ten thousand Poser users so put off by V4 that they're not using the figure or making content?  Duhhhhh.

Quote - So the more "childlike" a female face looks,  plus some adult traits mixed in to assure her fertility, the more attractive a woman becomes.

PATENTLY ridiculous and again, entirely subjective.  Your personal preference for childlike females has zero, zip, nada, nunquam, nothing whatsoever with anyone else's.  And here you go again with smiley abuse.

PS:  V3's face is anything but childlike, unless there's lots of children out there with razor jawlines and large, hard cheekbones.

Neither ridicoulus nor subjective:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny

"While neoteny is not necessarily a physical state experienced by humans, paedomorphic characteristics in women are widely acknowledged as desirable by men..."

Selective reading, and invalid in this case - V3 doesn't exhibit childlike features.

I love how people put forth horseshit about how they've got beauty quantified and metered out.  If this were true, there would be a $3,000 one-size-fits-all plastic surgery makeover that would make Milla Jovovich et al. obsolete.  It is never that simple, despite wiki entries or doctoral dissertations to the contrary.

Your original assertion about childlike = beautiful, not childlike = not beautiful is foolish and vastly oversimplified, and will remain foolish, even if you find a second sentence out of all of Wikipedia that backs it up.  Have fun looking.

Again with this? Are we back in High School with the second grade mantality that if it's not picture perfect then it must be ugly?

I like V4 better myself, ease of use.

I can't stand V3. Everything that cameout for her over the years started to look like a clone.

Hopefully that won't happen to V4.

Just once I wish Daz would make a black female out of the box, just once.

Ah yes, when in doubt whip it out with Wikipedia. If it's in Wikipedia then it must be true.

The beatuy of Wikipedia, they can make it up. Without facts thats why people have latched on to it and made it their liberal Bible.

Yawn.

You two are too cute... :thumbupboth:

Not a single RATIONAL argument but all rightous huffing and puffing and ad hominem attacks.

Yeah, scientific research be damned. Them's are all godless pinko commie liberals anyway, trying to take over the world with all of them's DIFFICULT words.

Mwaaahahahahaha...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

pjz99, why are you overreacting from JoePublic's posts?

I think you neglected to say "newbie" in that post, I'm a bit surprised.  Maybe you're off balance or something.

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

Quote - pjz99, why are you overreacting from JoePublic's posts?

Can you help me understand how I've overreacted?

1:  The earth is flat.  
2:  What you said is silly and nonsensical.
1:  No really, it's flat, lots of people think so.  www.flatearth.org 
2.  What you said is nonetheless silly and nonsensical.
1:  Waaah!!!

Where is the ad hominem? 

lol i started a fire!  is it a coincidence that all anime/cartoon/cinematic beauties are similar?  hell no it's not.  not really anything to argue there

it's not that V4 starts out UGLY so much that it is V4 starts out masculine.  since she is a female 3D character, myself and the clients i do artwork and ecovers for, clearly prefer her to be as un-manly as possible.  since her mesh is in my opinion far superior to V3, i find the head and face  part a frustrating roadblock- my regular job now requires mass production of renders and she is the latest and greatest-  really need to figure her out.

i did notice the Pretty version IV pack in the marketplace, and it looks like a really good take on V4.  i do personally think out of the box matters, because the farther away you have to start from your goal, the harder it is.  V3 starts closer to pretty than V4.  V4 looks like a thug out of the box and i got my work cut out for me.

Perhaps my perception of what constitutes masculine differs from your own Darkworld, but I find the un-moprhed V3 to be downright man-ish, even when compared to V4. Ultimately though, they’re both fairly bland pre-morph.

In short, V4 is certainly more than flexible enough to be made into a feminine beauty; regardless of how you define it (I’m looking at you two…tsk tsk).

Acadia: > Quote - Out of the box most of the figures would require a bone tied around their necks to get the dog to play with them... especially Jessi.

However, with different textures and some morphs, most figures improve considerably. I've seen some very pretty images in the gallery with V4 and I've been thinking of getting her after all.  However, this isn't true or all figures....Jessi for example.  To me she's a hopeless case and looks like an alien from outerspace no matter what.

dphoadley: Posette never did!

Have a good day, and may all your goings out and comings in be in Peace!
David P. Hoadley

i never found V3 manly, but i definitely found V2 hotter than V3 out of the box too lol... so maybe history is just repeating itself.

i think feminine features have to be exaggerated slightly to get that "hot girl" look, and so one could argue that since V4 is decidedly unexaggerated in almost every way (except her GIANT bug eyes) she doesn't come across that way.  i mean if you load her up and look at her from the side she has a massive bull neck lol

from some of the renders ive seen though i can at least say many characters look VERY different from the parent V4, in other words it does indeed look like you can remove the V4 from V4 if you work hard enough- and that makes her worth it right there.  most V3 characters still had traces of V3, no matter how hard you tried to make her look like someone else.

I find V4 harder to get what I want because of the lack of morphs compared to V3. Daz slacked off in that department. Was it our faults, maybe. We started screaming for her, I was one of them, because of the stupid teasing Daz did. She was rushed out incomplete or as many companies, cut back and charged more for less.

Yes, those face settings are pretty dismal. Magnets and modeling apps help but the average user cant afford ZBrush and such, let alone learning how to use it just so you can get a face that you like. I use Hexagon and UVMapper to create my morphs. Again, the average V4 user does not want to spend the time to do that. I don't blame them. They bought a figure to use not model.I blame Daz for cheeping out on a decent head morph pack. The majority of V4 users will have to wait for content creators to come up with a good expanded head morph pack. Which I'm sure will happen in the future, after all, V4 is new. But patience is not common place here. That includes me too.

Can we talk about the topic and not fling playground taunts around, do you think?

Personally I think V4 is far more attractive than V3, by several orders of magnitude. But possibly that's because I'm so bored of V3 that anything different is very welcome.

The right texture goes a long way to the way a character looks. Try spinning a few head dials for either V3 or V4. Apply one of your fave textures, and render. Now apply another texture - don't touch the dials or use INJ or REM - and render again. Depending on the textures, it can seem to totally reshape the models head. Lips seem bigger or smaller, ditto eyes, cheekbones can seem to recede or come out...

I agree very much with Karen find a texture you love, spin some dials, play with lighting the sole purpose of poser I thought was to be creative. If one wanted a good looking model out of the box then would be no need for the morphs everyone seems to scream about from time to time.

And yes, as far as V4 lacking the morphs of V3 it is OUR faults. When V3 came out there was nothing but constant complaining about needing to inject a shite load of morphs to get her to look like something. Many said that they did not want this to happen with V4 and Daz answered.

Personally, I am amazed that such a heated argument can be started over a character that isn't a real person come on folks she's DIGITAL! LOL!!!

Funny, one of the first conclusions I came to about V4 is that I think it's easier to put a bit of middle age on her than on V3, by a long shot.  Not so much the gross deep folds as the subtler crow's feet kind of thing.  I had a hard time with V3 getting her to look older than 27, but younger than 60.

I've been shrinking the eyes a bit on my characters as well, and also closing the eyelids or adding squint - default V4 is a bit too startled-looking for me.

LOL w ACue...#^P A killer stare! pjz99,,, Someone will prove me wrong. I really have not played with her enough yet. But the "fleshiness" of V4's face is amazing...