23rd July 2007...

The Critique Forum and Critique Gallery are now open!

Please visit the new forum and gallery to start participating :-)

I will be the first sign-up :biggrin:

I don't post very often (I am too busy modding the forums, hehe) but I love to get criticism on how to improve any aspect of my images!

David P Hoadley would like to learn and grow.
DPH

I would like to join.  Sharen

Yeah, I'm in for some of this - the main reaosn I don't tend to post in the galleries is because a) my work tends to be WIP a lot fo the time, and b) I want some critiques, not just to be ignored or have fawning fanboys drooling (not that I suspect I'd get much of the latter). so count me in!

jonthecelt

Count me in as well... I would really like plenty more criticism then the 'nothing' I am getting so far! :P

Ok. I'm in.

Yeah! Yeah! I know! I have stated repeatedly in the forums that peoples'  critque of my images doesn't really matter  to me because I create my art based on what I like and what I think looks good and I don't upload anything to my gallery that I  am not happy with.

However, I told Karen that I would sign up and do feel that there is always room to grow.

So hit me with your best shots...but be kind about it   :b_smile:

Areas that I want to improve in:

1. Lighting

2. Making my images not look so "neat and proper". I tend to subscribe to the "less is more" and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't and leads the image to look sparsely populated and too "crisp and clean" looking....kind of sterile.

3. Perspective of size and distance

4. Giving my images depth so that they don't look so flat.

**Some things I would like to learn:

**1. How to make a picture look "misty". Not foggy, more soft focus and "glowing" if that makes sense.  hehe I've always loved the look of this image, and would like to be able to do similar

Areas where I think I excell:

I think I have a pretty good eye for colour and composition and try to pay attention to detail.

OK, I can accept critics such as excellent, marvelous, fabulous, amazing and of course with the proper referrencing words as your majesty, glorious ominipotent, supreme master........

However, I told Karen that I would sign up ...

Yeah, I'm such a bully! :m_laugh:

Ricardo, I don't think we'll have many of those words! But you're welcome to join up with us "mortals"!

I'd like to join!

Count me in!  I'm always open to suggestions on how I can improve my images!  ^__^

Quote -

**Some things I would like to learn:

**1. How to make a picture look "misty". Not foggy, more soft focus and "glowing" if that makes sense.  hehe I've always loved the look of this image, and would like to be able to do similar
.

This effect is nothing Poser can do. It's usually postwork.
I wrote a program able to do effects like this with one click (more or less ;) ). Like to test it?

as it has helped me in the past, count me in.

Count me in too but I will be unavailable mostly for the next Month at least while I sort out [hopefully] some RL issues!
 

i'm in :)

I'd like to join too. @Karen What happens now? Will this be launched or is it already a float?

@indoda, ppl in this thread will add you to their favourites i think, then all ya gotta do is upload your pics as normal in the gallery and ppl will go critique it when they get a notification. in return you gotta do the same :) 

hey i just thought.....are we gonna get in the artcharts doin this???? :D

Yes zollster, exactly, just add to your faves (or bookmarks) and get commenting when you get the ebots.

Or, if you have an existing piece you would like critique on, feel free to post the link.

I don't know exactly the logic behind the art chart calculations (it's a closely guarded programming secret!) but I know part of it is on number of comments and favourites, so it's possible, yes. Which can only be a good thing :-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1369107

I would like to be considered as well.  For those that have preferences:

• None of my work is significantly postworked
• Much of my work contains nudity
• Some controversial and provocative content
• I don't use canned character morphs and try fairly hard to avoid recognizable clothing items
• My characters don't tend to have the typical cheesecake physique or model-perfect facial features
• I tend to have crazy, unrealistic hair; that's entirely by design, I know it's unrealistic :tt2:

I am particularly interested in criticism on lighting, posing, and especially scene composition.  If an image provokes some emotion, positive or negative, I'd like to hear about that.  Opinions of the look and shape of my characters are also very welcome, I try to make them look like someone you might actually meet as opposed to a high-fantasy/ultra-glamorous look. 

Im in !...This sounds like the way the site should of been run in the first place.

Oh Karen ...YOU .. you ..you    you know how to use the community :}
This is the First time i see something like this .. a real community thing..
I love it..
But were do i sign up to be the Crittic :-} ....
Not that im the world biggest artist but i have a good eye for details and tips and so..
Im so sad seeing all those "good work" comments to flood the artist hit list over andover again..
some get 100 comments and 90% is "good work" and even Bad made image get tons of those "good work" comments.. 
So i realy love this idea of yours ...

Chris

Hey Chris, you're in, I added you... now you just need to add ( or bookmark ) the other members in this thread, and get commenting!

I'm up for this as well. I do most of my work at the moment in DAZ|Studio does that matter? Just asking cos this is the Poser forum!!

Mark

Count me in! 

I don't comment in the galleries very often because I don't subscribe to the "Great Work" club. I've been slammed frequently for offering constructive criticism on what I think could be improved.  This would be a great way to improve my own art and, in the process, see the work of my friends improve as well.

Ok, off to add peeps to my favorites.

That's a good point there, maybe this could or should be extended to include DAZ studio, Vue etc.
Maybe shoulda posted in the CC forum!!

You know that tiny snowball you roll down the hill _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!!!!!!

 Hey Chris, good to have you on board, my biggest critic!!   ;-))

I dont think it matters DS or Poser.. 
On thing i do like to state that "good work" is NOT a comment..at least not for ME...
When you like it say What you like ..
And if you think a Tip is needed say so..

"good work" nice image" keep it up" thats good for most commented and most rated useless lists...

Im a real crittic but always with the best intensions.. 
And now people wont sent me a Angry mail after some comment words from me ..."i hope" ;-}

Chris

I'm in. I'm never satisfied with my lighting. It's one thing I'm still learning, and Poser lighting
can be a PITA. :)

Greywolf

count me in. be nice to have intelligent input and output on images here :)

I don't see any problem with including pieces made in other applications than Poser. Just bear in mind that the majority of the user experience here is with Poser - so we may not be able to make suggestions for how to accomplish something in, say, Vue. 

If the group proves good and active then I would hope to roll it out to the whole community going forward. (Although I can see pros and cons on both sides. If I'm trying to achieve realism within Poser, then I'm going to get my most useful comments from people also working in that app. But, any member can comment on things like colour, composition and lighting - and a fresh pair of eyes can be good if they are totally objective and don't know Mike from Dork!)

Well im not the person to point out how to get perfect realism in poser..
Im more the person to spot the toe sticking true or something like that...

But vote Karen for president for a country of choice ;-}

Chris

@Karen In the cold light of day (I signed up very early this morning) I had some thoughts that bothered me 1) There are some who have signed up whose art work is far a head of my own - I would like to have their advice but feel that I am not qualified to critique their art. As this is supposed to be reciprocal how do I deal with this? 2) Is there anyway that these pictures could have their own area? 3) Should the uploading artist ask what he/she wants to be critiqued ie lighting, pose etc. 4) Am I out to lunch? Thanks

Karen, if it's not too much trouble, is there anyway to update your first post with a list of members who have signed onto this?  It may become overwhelming if we start getting too many pages, as to who we've added to our favorite artists and who we haven't.   I know it doesn't take a lot for ME to get confused!!   ^__^  :b_funny:

Indoda I think the same of some of the others (they some are much better than I am).  That shouldn't stop you from looking for a valuable comment to leave for someone else, even if you don't find any flaw - you can also point out why something is good, as opposed to just finding the bad.  I don't know if I am too keen to already start segregating people by "rank" or "quality", this just got started.  I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Miyu you can view your favorite artists:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/member.php?favorite_artists

A small request of those asking for feedback: when you post an image, some notes are always helpful, particularly technical notes if you have something you think is worth mentioning, e.g. a bit of explanation about the lighting setup.

Well i'll give an example.. one of the most commented artist did an image wich had over 90 comments with ooh's  and  ahhh's ..and i just asked if the maker noticed the missing shadows on some parts of the image...
90 persons saying ooh aah nobody saw the missing shadow ..
dont think because you cant do it yourself that your input is not worth it... GOOD input with a good comment is always welcome..

Btw the person i mentioned the shadow to was NOT amused ... and sayed so in a PM..
I always repley dont ask for critical comments then... :}

I think this is going to be fun 

Indoda,

Never feel that you aren't qualified to critique! Even if you just talk about how a picture makes you feel, it's all valuable information. All of us have things to learn and I don't think we would be signing up for this if we weren't willing to listen to all opinions - provided they're constructive. 

Even when you can't find anything negative about the image, talk about what you feel is strongest. I have many people whose work I admire and I know I will never reach their level, but it doesn't stop me from leaving comments such as "I love the way the lighting highlights her face" or "Your image is so rich with little details, it makes me feel I'm right there as part of the scene."

As for having our own gallery area, I think maybe that's something that could come later when we see how its going. In some ways I think that would help, but in other ways I think, why remove it from the main galleries, when perhaps seeing thoughtful critique will encourage others to leave their own more constructive comments?

If you want parts of the image specifically critiqued, yes, by all means post that in the notes. If I don't see a note asking for specifics then I'll just comment on whatever strikes me first.

And no, you're not out to lunch! :o)

PrincessMiyu - good idea, I'll get that done when I get home from work tonight :m_laugh:

Chris, can you please vote me president of Barbados? I would enjoy a nice holiday in the sun ;o) Hehehe!

Quote - > Quote -

**Some things I would like to learn:

**1. How to make a picture look "misty". Not foggy, more soft focus and "glowing" if that makes sense.  hehe I've always loved the look of this image, and would like to be able to do similar
.

This effect is nothing Poser can do. It's usually postwork.
I wrote a program able to do effects like this with one click (more or less ;) ). Like to test it?

Actually, yes I would :)

I would like to be added. I'm particularly interested in comments which can help me with figure poses -- at times I think mine may be a little stiff. I'm still pretty new to this, and anything prior to today I probably can't go back and do any more work on due to having deleted my pz3s in a fit of idiocy. 

Holy S*** Chris, we tried a woman in charge over here in the UK once and boy did she screw things up, never again please!!!!!

I'd like to join too... Once I have a long intense talk with "Murphy", maybe I'll be able to post a few myself. Lou.

o.k., it appears plenty of folks are interested in our very helpful opinions, so let the fun begun! :lol: I already spotted one good image for criticism. it was actually linked as an example of what the artist would like to emulate, but the linked image in question had a number of problems IMVHO: no facial expression pasted over a blurred generic photoshop background a flat render with no depth stiff pose poor or no shadows kinky poser hair in desperate need of retouching no background props or scene composition edge-framing detracts from image, makes it appear even flatter identical reflection map in both eyes headband filigree prop appears pasted over render appears to use nostril-plug props or dark nostril colour (but I could be wrong) however, the render in question is far better than most of the poser stuff there IMVHO. I like it meself. the technical details are not gonna be of any interest to the casual viewers, hence any criticism of this type will have little effect in real terms.

Hmmm I guess for one to be included one has to actually post images in their gallery from time to time.

While this is asking alot, I guess I can do that.

Count me in.

I see that some people have expressed a feeling of inadequacy so far as their own images are concerned and that they feel awkward about giving critique on images that they deem better than their own.

I'd like to say that if this is to work, the critiques have to be recipricol and go both ways, not just sign up and sit back and let others do the work. The idea is to learn and grow and improve ourselves and our techniques, but it's also to help others learn and grow and improve theirs and they can't do that without hearing from "you" :)

We all know what we like and don't like, and most of us have an eye for what looks "off" or for what works.  Some images cause us to feel emotions of some kind.  It's important that those things are relayed. It all helps.

So far as the critiquing goes.  I think it would be helpful if when you point out flaws or things that could be improved that you try and suggest a solution or point out a tutorial. I know that won't be possible in all cases, but it would certainly be helpful.

Also, it would be helpful to also hear what about the image works. Regardless of how well you accept criticism, constantly hearing only the negative can be a real blow to the self esteem.  So point out what works and what doesn't.... to provide a balance and to give the person hope that they aren't a total duffus when it comes to creating.

As a suggestion, it might be a good idea to comment the critique group participants (that they're in the critique group...) your other favorites may not be interested in being critiqued.

I'll give it go and learn something - even though my image posting may be spasmodic

I do think I'm going to wait for the list of artists wanting critiqued to add them to my faves only because there are already several and it'll be much easier to add then. 

Generally I don't even post comments on the images that have a long list of 'ooohs and ahhhs' on them because I'm pretty sure the artist won't even notice me or what I may have to say. I like to look for the uploads that have been up for a day or so that don't have any comments or very few and give them a bit of a boost by saying: 'I really like this aspect, have you thought of trying this?' or 'Love the softening of that image, how do you go about doing that?'. This way I can be constructive and/or learn something new in the process :)

I know when I wake up in the morning and check my gallery, if someone took the time to post something on one of my images (not counting the generic 'very nice!' comments) it always gets my day going great and I want to pass it along. So regardless of how qualified you feel your gallery is or how you compare yourself to others, positive and well thought out comments are ALWAYS appreciated!

Hi,

I would like to join the gang of critics (and criticized) - although I don't have as much time for posing (or viewing) or commenting as I would like.

My preferences are for honest criticism about all aspects of my images (e.g. composition, feeling, viewer reaction, technique, errors, suggested improvements, etc) .... and perhaps just one or two "ohhhhs" and "ahhhhs" or maybe a "wow!" now and again - which would be nice!

How easy is it going to be to leave the list? If everyone on the list has individually favorited an artist then they will all, individually have to un-favorite them again - otherwise the criticism will keep on coming.....yikes! This might just be an opt-in with no opt-out option.

Must give a warning to others on the list that I do often make images with nudity.

Jovial.

Hi Jovial,

Good point... depends how big the group gets, how complicated that would prove. We'll have to see what happens and sort out best practice as we go...

yay!  i'm so glad this has happened.  i was worried for a while that there wasn't enough interest in the other thread for karen1573 to do this, but she took the bull by the horns and got the ball rolling!  thanks so much!

ok, thoughts-

acadia - sorry to disagree with adp001, but (to my eyes) you can do that in poser.  see bagginsbill's posts at rdna (poser 6 forum, i believe) on his vargas shader.  also, look in the daz forums for.... let me see if i can remember this properly, 50's pinups.  i think it was xaa (jim farris) that had one.  iirc, he didn't say anything about how he did it, but he might tell you more in pm.  if you're willing to just try some nodes and settings, i'd suggest the skin node, the velvet node, and edgeblend nodes in diffuse, alternate diffuse and ambient settings.  and starting with an airbrushed skin to begin with (like most in the freebies, some of vali's skins, thorne and sarsa's, etc.  also, if you're using poser 6+, ibl can give a very soft, ambient lighting, so you might try lighting with just one ibl (no image) for ambient and a spot or infinite for contours.

anyone at all worried about the quality of their work -
i can't speak for others, but i don't think that your ability to imagine the perfect picture has anything with your ability to implement it.  nor does it affect your ability to spot flaws.  you don't need to be a gourmet chef to have an educated palette, and you don't need any artistic skills to be able to write a good critique.  i'm not hoping to have people who are better than me teach me to get where they are.  i'm hoping to learn how to be a better artist in general, and i think anyone with a critical eye can do that.

that said, i'll take some advice, keep some for consideration, and some i'll feel won't fit my goals.   and i'll expect others to do the same.  so if i don't seem to act on specifics, please don't be offended- i'm definitely reading and considering every bit of advice.  and i'll never think of my advice too seriously- there are tons of people who know more than i and see things very differently, and you have to do what's best for your own work.

goals -
i want to reach a professional level of quality.  i want one day to do work i'd be proud to show at cgsociety, regardless of how they might react to poser work.    i'm just at a point where i'm realizing i need to work on my own voice and develop a style as well as increase my technical abilities in 3d, color/photo correction, and in digital painting.  i think i can paint hair pretty decently now (enough for a start), and i want to learn to paint clothes.  so if anyone has advice or tutorials that helped them (just to mention, i know the ones in the tutorial section here). 

just a quick mention, there are some pieces missing from my gallery here due to the thumbnail policy, so if you're interested here's a link to my runtime dna gallery.  the missing pics aren't pinups, actually- those were easy to crop into compliance.

i'm really looking forward to this!  i'll be as helpful as i can in my critiques- please pm me if you have any follow-up questions or responses.