Hi, I've been reading some really vague posts here and there, and I have to say I really don't understand exactly what the deal is with Victoria 2 and redistribution. So, is this correct: Victoria 2 characters cannot be redistributed in any way, shape, or form, as well as any V2 morph targets, even as only .CR2 files? Assuming so, why? There is no actual geometry in a cr2 file, right? Or is it that DAZ has seen all the money people have been making by selling cr2 files, and this is there way of hoping people will sell through them, so they can get a cut? I can't help but feel that if this is true, it might very well create some tension between them and their user base, not to mention lost revenue for sites such as this which make a certain amount of money from sales of cr2 files. :( This is gonna blow up in their face, if it's true. Also, I want to say that this is not to be taken as a negative complaint towards DAZ--- I just simply don't understand exactly what it is they're saying.

The CR2 files contain all the new morphs ... basically the obj of vicki normal is the same but all the new tweaks and stuff are in the cr2 so if you distributed the CR2 it would be like giving away a free victoria 2. I am guessing from what colm said about Syyd's approval that it is okay to morph the heck out of her using those same dials and give a one shot morph that has been slimmed down so it can't be used in other programs without the root obj. hope that makes some sense to you S Still trying to make sure on the whole morph thing myself

I don't have Vickie II yet, but as I understand it, she is just a CR2 that morphs the original geometry and has new joint parameters. So DAZ is just protecting what they sell. Vickie II is just a character, as I understand it, and it would be unethical to base a character on somebody elses character anyway, as you would be using their work without compensation. As an example of the difference, Supermodel Vickie isn't a character, she has a different object file, so you could sell a character based on SMV. Anyway, bear in mind that any character that is sold through DAZ based on Vickie II is going to cost more than the Vickie II upgrade, as you will be getting her as part of the package.

DAZ has posted on its site the rules about distribution. I didn't look through them in detail, since I'm not at the skill level to make things worth distributing, but DAZ seems to have posted a policy that covers it.

Mike--what Jim said. Any custom character you buy or get for free is likely to be a cr2 file. I have about 4 custom handspan studios characters, and those cr2s are not redistributable. Likewise if I make a character starting with a handspan cr2 I can't redistrib. it. Vicky2 is no different than any other custom Vicky...the only one I know of that doesn't work this way is SMV, as Jim points out. However it looks like DAZ will allow morphs to be disted via squished-obj, or you could export your custom morph from vicky 2 to vicky 1's cr2 and then distribute the vicky1 cr2. (check with daz first, of course). It looks like daz is actually being more liberal in this than most custom creators would be--if you base a character on someone else's cr2 to start with, even if you strip their original stuff out of the cr2 once you've tweaked it, it's still partially their property. So the divvying may work differently with vicky2 characters at daz. Basically Jim's the only one who's come up with a way to lock down his version of vicky so his mods can't go trickling through other characters this way...clever! I expect DAZ will have a way of selling custom V2 characters that don't include the price of V2, or there'd be no reason to buy more than one. I hope, anyway... :)

well, the solution i think is to do your morphs form victoria 1 not 2.

whe i say form i want to say from.

Oh OK, and thanks everyone. Now I see what's going on. I had thought that the new Vickie was also a major upgrade in geometries as well. Sorry-- my bad! Anyhow, I'm figuring on waiting for the inevitable patch before upgrading. ;)

Heres the big problem that hasnt been forseen yet someone could simply export all the v2 morphs slightly morph them and redistribute them in a v1 cr2 legally the only thing missing would be the joint parameters i hate to see daz s work robbed like that and also hate that it will mean the tightening of what daz allows maybe they should have simply used a knife tool or added a spline to have a new geometry file to prevent all this

To be perfectly honest I don't completely understand the fuss over trading with Vickie 2. Vic1 is still freely distributable as a cr2. Most character creators aren't likely to use the morphs in Vic2 for their "sale" work as they (as I understand it) create their own morphs anyway. So, carry on selling, distributing, giving away Vic1 characters - who's morph targets can be used on Vic2 (mostly) and there's no worry about Daz locking down on any and all distribution. I mean, what's the big deal? Daz have made a new character. Just like all the characters in the various stores. They sold her as vickie 2. Guys, gals. Just carry on with what you were doing and what you were intending to do before Vic2 arrived. Create the characters in Vic1, sell them, give them away. Whatever. And those who want or have Vic2 can either transfer the morphs (though after paying that much money I sure as heck wouldn't want to do that), or they can use your characters as you intended. Vickie 2 gives those of us on a massively limited budget the chance to have our own stable of characters without having to pay through the nose for each new variation that pops up in the store.

OK, I had thought I understood it but I suppose there's more. Essentially Vickie 2 is only a cr2 and has NO new geometry at all? But what IS different is that the joint parameters have been altered? And I had (apparently mistakenly) been looking forward to her as if she was going to be a new geometry as well as a new character. Oh well, that's cool, and thanks agin for the info. :)

One way I can think of to make and distribute characters based on Victoria 2 would be to make or use the morphs on Vic 2 to make a character then saving it as a pose or face file in the library . Then when you want to distribute it all you would need to do is send the pose or face file and any custom made morphs that the file required . This way , unless I am wrong about how these files work , the pose or face file wouldn't work like it's supposed to unless it found the required morphs to make it work , meaning it would be useless unless they owned Vic 2 or it would just be a pose and would trigger any common morphs that Vic 1 and 2 share.

Hmmm ... just a thought on this problem. It would seem to me possible to write a 'Mover-type program to get around it. Something that would look for the original V2 .CR2 and do some checks like file length, specific code entries and say a CRC check to make certain it wasn't a spoof. The program would only de-code if it could find an original V2 .CR2. Like I said, just a thought.

I put some directions on how to do V2 chaatcers in a thread in the Copyright Laws forum. I asked Chad about using V2 morphs as stock for combination morphs and he said 'No'. He did suggest a way to use PZ@ and FC2 files and a way to use outside morphs as a part of the mix. This I posted. The question that I have: If a character is set up using FBM or PBM (the morph values do not show on the individual dials, only internal to Poser) will MM4 use these morphs as part of the mix to do a combinaton morph for each group? This not for redistribution in the case of V2, but for use by the user. V2 is Big. 20 meg. If you can pare a character down to one shape morph per group , it would not tax Poser so much. Add in the JCM for Millie and it is 2 meg larger. It would be simple eough, but a bit tediuos, to set each FBM/PBM dial to the value on the central dial and then turn that one off and then use MM4. But, explaining this clearly to a customer who has bought a V2 character based on a PZ2 file and one or several outside morphs?, will need someone with excellent writing skills.

OK, so no one has caught it. If I read it correctly, Once you have a character set up the way you wish (ERC or single morphs and no mattr how many) If you select each group that has morphs going on and select 'Spawn morph target' it will make a new dial that is this combination morph? When you save the CR2 to Library it has the new morph? Open the new CR2 and clean out the construction morphs with the Hierarchy Editor (or have done so with MM4/MC/CR2edit) and you have a lean & mean character CR2?

Jaager, Even so, can it be considered "legal" to use and redistribute such combined morphs? A morph target spawned as a "new" single morph in such a way is still derivitive of copyrighted morphs, is it not? not arguing you understand, because in the world of morphing, as they say--- "You da Man!"-- but this seems to keep getting more confusing....

Mike, V2 is the morphs. I am not so sure that much new was done with JP. It does incorporate the incremental improvements and fix the fingers. (The 1/22/01 update of V1 did not fix the fingers.) I do not think DAZ is jealously guarding JP improvements with the V2 CR2. The problem is the morphs. Not only does V2 have new construction morphs, but there are joint fixes, and new head expression morphs. DAZ has not much confidence that a user could separate the v2 morphs from the V1 morphs before a CR2 was redictributed, so the easiest way is to say "Do not use the V2 CR2 at all for redistribution." The mrph dials are intermixed, so seaparation would require some wit. As for an "inevitable patch" , V2 was supposed to be released the first week of April - MillieJCM almost ran smark dab into her, because they had been aiming for March. It is a month and a half late from the April release. The patch was done before they released her.

The combination would have to be done by the end user. A vendor (or Free stuff provider) would have to supply a PZ2 and the outside morphs to add to the mix. A vendor may not provide the V2 morphs even as part of a combination morph. The V2 part will have to come from the CR2 in the end users hands. The vendor would just provide everything else but this. The insructions, Oh the instructions... (Lakehurst, NJ)

hmmm... OK.. I'm gonna have to mull this one over a bit. Don't think of me as dense, but rather, distracted..... ;)

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/pages/faq/faq.html

Hi, this is AnneMarie from DAZ Productions. Thanks for all the feeback and suggestions concerning Victoria 2.0!! However, we have received many questions concerning Victoria 2.0 and what is legal to do with her. In order to help clarify, we have posted the answers on our site. http://www.daz3d.com/pages/faq/faq.html Please refer to this section if you have any questions concerning Victoria 2.0. For any additional questions feel free to email tech@daz3d.com. thanks, AnneMarie DAZ Productions www.daz3d.com