Remember the thread about how we could use Poser for virtual super models well we have the domain 3dmodelworld.com registered to use for this purpose so if you fancy us giving this a try drop me a mail and if there is enough of us we'll start a mailing list and see how we go....Steve steve@poserworld.com

I'm thinking the Zygote meshes could not be used for this, only original materials. -Jeff H.

I'm meaning just images Jeff obviously anyone invloved with the 3d side (figures wise)is going to have to own poser. this is the sort of thing we need to thrash out if we are going to try and make it work....its been said a lot in the forum that if all the talent put its heads together a lot could be done (and I agree).....so lets try...Steve

What I mean is, can images of the poser figures (no matter how customized) be offered for virtual employment as product models? Do we as Poser users really own the image of these figures outside of our own artwork? Just a thought. -Jeff H.

Yes... we even own the Custom CR2 and PZ3 files we produce (so long as they don't contain full model geometries that aren't ours...) However, I must also note that a Custom Figure for that project would probably be better in the long run.

Let me refine this a bit further... I realize that we DO own our artwork made from renders and also the .pz3's and .cr2's. I'm thinking that in order to offer a virtual model's image for employment one must also own the mesh that the figure is made of. This is different than creating rendered advertising art using poser figures. Most actors own their own image, even the estates of ones that are no longer living have ownership of their image. See my point? -Jeff H.

Yes Jeff any images video created are yours to sell or not as you wish...I think your probably right Grey but if a client decided he would need the actual model then the cost of building him/her from new would pass on to the client...I reckon anyway again its this sort of thim that needs ironing out.....Steve

I see your point Jeff but if say we used a character from here then the person that owns the cr2 is due the cash as he owns the cr2 ....I think if this idea is a go we would need to get in touch with zygote and MC to sort this stuff out...personally speaking if we are going to do it we gotta do it above board and legal.....Steve

This sounds interesting. Will there be male and female models? Would you have to be capable of creating the entire model (i.e. the look of the model and the animation)? Beth

Nothings decided yet just kind of putting out feelers but I'm thinking male and female and each person does what they know best..one for clothes another for skin textures....maybe we have a make up artist on the forum..we just gotta get our heads together and see what we come up with.....Steve

I had another thought... You would not be able to grant exlusive use rights of a Poser figure to a client as they might wish. Anyone who owns Poser can produce that same figure and offer it to another client without penalty. The likeness of a character can be protected, but the part of it that is the zygote mesh cannot. All poser users are given the right to render that image when we bought the program.

But Jeff you could say that of any 3d figure or object, given enough skill and time it could be recreated....its even possible for real life objects look at titanic made in lightwave....Thanks newc for the heads up...we now have the copyright sorted so are we going to do it :o).....Steve

I mentioned this in a previous post if this takes off then Zygote and metacreations would be consulted , and if a client needed a model rather than just an image/video then they would need to pay the extra for the model, if this works out and other models are needed i think zygote will be the first folk to speak to coz i don't think any of us have created a detailed enough human figure for this kind of use...but we'll never know unless we try.....Steve 2 mails anymore takers :o)

Let's get a couple of things cleared up here: 1-PZ3 files are OK to sell so long as you remove morph targets and the like from them. This also applies to figures that the grouping tool has been used on, grouping tooled parts add geometry to the pz3 file. The actual figure file is referenced in the Pz3/Cr2 file like a hyperlink to a web page. If the geometry is not already present, the link will fail. 2-Original images, video clips, etc. you make in Poser are OK to sell and freely distribute. You have a license to use the Zygote models for this purpose. 3-Selling a geometry or distributing a geometry without the maker's permission is ILLEGAL. The morph target/PZ3/CR2 file trade was allowed by Zygote in a copyright debate way-back-when. This was done to support and encourage Poser users. Morph targets may not be sold. 4-Objaction Mover format may be sold since it does not contain any geometry, only a modification. The file requires you to own the geometry before hand and tells Mover how to change the model, therefore an Objaction file is not a derivitive work on its own.

There is another thread I commented in, but it applies here too, since it is the same thing. Go buy a box of crayons, draw anything you want, you can sell it (whether animation of not). The crayons are but mere materials to create YOUR art. The same goes for MetaCreations and Zygote stuff. It is but mere materials to create your art. Where the problem lies is in selling those materials, as you aren't an authorized dealer to do so. Regarding cr2 files- If you create your own model in a 3d program (doesn't matter which one), then "animate" it in Poser, create a cr2 file in Poser for YOUR model, or whatever, it is YOUR model. Do with it as you please, to include the cr2 file. Again, the Poser is but a tool (material) used in the creation of your art. BUT if it has a Zygote or MetaCreations model in it, that is a no-no, because you are selling the tools (materials) of which, again, you are not an authorized dealer. Remember, Zygote does not own exclusive rights to all character creations, nor are they the only character model makers. Anyone with the skill can do it. They only own the rights to that which they themselves created, just as you own the rights to what you create.

OK, I'm getting really confused on the legalities here. My understanding it is alright to sell PZ3 files and the CR2 of a morphed figure. I have heard nothing of having to remove the morphs. If you had to do this, how would people be distributing them now without Zygote being up in arms already. I do not see Objaction as a viable solution as it states in the readme file that it is not for commercial use. On another note, what exactly would these figures be modeling? Though close is possible, I'm not sure exact reproductions of designer clothes to put on Poser figures is doable. Now I can see models lounging on motorcycles or cars or displaying products like the girls on "The Price is Right." I'm just saying, what type of modeling services are to be provided? Beth

Don't worry about the copyright Beth its not about selling morphs ect just images.....services depends on what the client will want its all still ifs and buts at the moment..check this site out http://www.landsend.com/cd/home/ you tell it what size you are and then it models the clothes for you...thats one example...maybe a person could pick an item out and see it walked across the cat walk with a photo of the clothing you can create a very good likeness of the item....Steve 3 on the list now :o)

I think you should re-post this thread tomorrow, as not everyone will see this today. And there may be a lot more members interested in this venture. On all these legal issues? I got news for you. There are a LOT of people already making oodles of money working with Poser and Bryce, etc. all over the internet in all sorts of various ways. If all these copyright issues were really that scary, a lot of these places would have a BIG problem. It's a matter of finding your "niche" and creating something that people will actually want to "pay for". If I create websites with Frontpage and sell them, must I be afraid that Microsoft will dissaprove? Why do people sell custom made plug-ins for Photoshop on legit sites? Adobe doesn't seem to mind that?? Poser and Bryce, etc. were made to enhance our artistic creativity, whether we sell it or just play with it, it's like a pencil or paintbrush; when you purchase it, what YOU create with it is yours to do with as you wish. Your not re-selling the software, your selling what you created with it; that's part of what it's for. Happy posing. Radart

Sounds like a challenge, Steve. Count me in.

I would be very interested in this kind of work as well. I love making characters and textures and refining poses. Perhaps I could be one of your "makeup artists" or your Poser poser? Diane Thure Griffith

With all due respect, again I stress, take a look see, or browse around the net, and you will find out for yourself that lots of people are making "money" using this software. I will not go into details, it depends on what your avenues are; it may not necessarily be "selling" meshes so to speak, but there are those too. If there are already so many obviously non-proffesional people making a buck with this stuff, why hinder all these great talented artists on the forum from trying to do the same?? If we do not try, it will definitly "not' happen. What needs to be done is, to sit down and weigh just what it is that would be "lost" in such a venture as opposed to what may be gained. Steve, I really think you need a new thread on this, perhaps with more info on what this "supermodel venture" is all about etc... Radart.

Diane and Dave will you both send me a mail please so I can add you to the mailing list ready for when we start....mazdak it people like you we need please join in...Radart I a agree totally if we don't try we gain nothing. as for more info I don't really know where its going to lead my first thought was that shops ect advertising on the web could have virtual cat walks changing rooms ect. maybe a site mascot ...big chunky guy welcoming you too www.woodworkersworld.com (don't try that link LOL) stuff like that..this is the stuff we need to discuss.....Steve

sorry forgot my mail address its kinda lost in the thread above..Steve steve@poserworld.com