Ya no we have a V4 morph named Alice,Marry,Jane ect ect INJ's of morphs bodies and face.

What app's do you all use to make these morphs ?

Poser 7 ,N-side,zBrush,Main app's like C4D,Max.

I know we had morphs before Poser 7 but did Poser 7 replace the need for using other app's for morphs ?

Are other app's still the best way to go ?

Need all the info about making morphs I can get.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

You start wih an UnMorphed V4.  Then you add Poser Magnets.  And finally you create the INJs, with something like DAZ Injection Pose Builder, becuase it does'nt nclude a proprieary data that DAZ would'nt want you to distribute.  There are free ways to make INJs, but keep this in mind when using something as handy as SVDL's Spawncharacter.PY.

Actually, you would'nt even need morphs, you could just sell the magnets.  Just be sure to keep what I said, about starting with an UnMorphed V4.  If you do'nt the magents wo'nt work right, when you own the morphs.

FYI - INJs are'nt necessary.  You can export Morph.OBJs, and then distribute those, with the free OBJAction utility.

Basically you can use any serious modeling app. If you are most used to work with Max then that's a good way to go.
If you can handle Poser deformers better then this is likely the better way.

Don't have Max Does it have Killer tools for Tweaking a high polygon mesh ?

I have C4D but can't say it has killer tools for morphing V4.Don't know there might be some plugs or tools I am missing.

I have Poser 5 that I know very little about, not a clue about deforming any thing in Poser,I do good to get V4 Dressed.

I have zBrush but I have never click with it with any thing else,never tried morphs.

So at this time I do not know where to start at.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

To make morphs for poser figures you would have the following workflow:

Load the figure in poser
Zero the figure
Export the body part you want to morph as obj
load the obj in your application (probably ZBrush, but Cinema works as well with Spanki's importer)
Work within your application, but dont change the position or size of the body part, change only the vertices you want to change. Do NOT add vertices.
Save as OBJ
Load as morph target in poser.

That would be the way to do it.

yup..and make sure you don't change the order of them, or it won't work (been there, done that..;) how you figure what the order is to begin with, I dunno..

Attached Link: "Makin' Morphs for Poser using Wings3D" tutorial

So, um, what is a morph anyway?___ :blink:

Here's a tutorial that may help us understand morphs in Poser. :biggrin:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

P.S. You'll find this tut and many others HERE.

RorrKonn,

Max, wings, etc are great for modeling but I really don't use those for morphs.

I personally use ZBrush for morphs.

If I use bones I can get what I want but One of things that gets me in C4D is I have no idea how ya would mirror the morphs.

I sux with zBrush I try to make a babe she comes out a deformed bumpy monster but we have mirrors ;)
What tools do use for morphs in zBrush ?

To do magnets and deformers in Poser takes long long long time ? & Can you mirror them ?

I can mirror and morphs my character a lot faster.

This might be a ridicules way of doing morphs but I was thinking of clothing V4 and making her conform to the character I modeled in C4D. ?

half to go from Poser to C4D back to Poser back to C4D back to Poser.

The Module MOCCA would go Poser to C4D to Poser but $600 ouch.

N -Side might be good for morphs but I need to research more.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Can you mirror morphs in Poser?  Yes:

http://ockhamsbungalow.com/Python/MorphMirror.zip

Can you mirror magnets?  Yes:

http://ockhamsbungalow.com/Python/MagnetMirror.zip

RorrKonn,
I believe ZBrush has a symmetry button, but it also has the capability of modeling in symmetry in real time. So that base is covered.
You can always mirror in Max, C4D, Maya, etc as well.

ZBrush does take some getting used to, but quite honestly I find it rather intuitive. The funky interface never upset me too much, every program will have it's quirks. Plenty of tut's out there for Poser/Max to ZBrush and back again. I use a tablet though and that makes a big difference. I still say ZBrush is worth learning and buying...but that's just me.

Hope This Helps

Quote -
FYI - INJs are'nt necessary.  You can export Morph.OBJs, and then distribute those, with the free OBJAction utility.

They are if you want anyone using Daz Studio to use your morphs :)

Xena - That's not true, Morph Manager 4 is a Free utility that would do the job; between a .CR2, and .OBJ.

This is a liitle OT, but...

Else, how do you make Distributable INJs for Free?  I understand a .PZ3 could be coded, with a Text Editor, but that's a wee bit extreme for most.  

And, does DAZ|Studio have Deformers?

Also, can DAZ|Studio open a .PZ3?

Is there anything you can do, with DAZ|Studio that you ca'nt with Poser?

I do'nt mean to be knocking DAZ|Studio, having it as a backup to Poser is probably  reason for EF's having given away P5; but I've spent a ton of time learning Poser, and shy from DAZ|Studio, for the same reasons I do with any other 3D applications, even Carrara, and Bryce.

Any replies will be appreciated!

There's one thing that DAZ|Studio can do what Poser can't to - good integration with Bryce.
That's it.
As far as I know, Vue can't import D|S scenes directly, requiring to go the painful route of .OBJ export and completely rebuilding the materials. As far as I know, import into Mojoworld, Carrara (I may be mistaken there, since DAZ now has a stake in Carrara too) suffers from the same problem.
The D|S render engine (3Delight) is good. Can't say that it is better than Firefly, it's got different strengths, especially when upgraded with plugins.
D|S cannot handle significantly larger scenes than Poser. Maximum scene complexity is comparable AFAIK.
There's a plugin for D|S that'll give it D-formers, comparable to Poser magnets.
As far as I know, D|S has no plugins for dynamic cloth or hair.
As far as I know, D|S has no scripting (I may be mistaken, there's been a lot of talk about including QTscript).
And - the base D|S is free, but the plugins are not. To upgrade D|S with plugins to functionality comparable to Poser (and still missing out on dynamic cloth and hair), you'll have to shell out close to $100.

If you're used to the Poser user interface, you'll need to invest some learning into the D|S user interface. I think that learning the user interface for someone who's new to both D|S and Poser wouldn't be very different. That's an uneducated guess, however.

In short, if you know and like Poser, there's no reason to switch to D|S.
And if you know and like D|S, there's no reason to switch to Poser, unless you want dynamic cloth and hair.

DarkEdge :

I think zBrush is a killer app and I think the company treats there customers very well and god the tutors if all app's would follow.

really enjoy the work artist make with zBrush,

zBrush is just not for me.

Don't know about Max,Maya but I know in C4D I can mirror a mesh I am modeling,but to mirror morphs I am not sure about.

but I am new to morphing other meshes.the again ya might mirror the morphs in Poser,so much to learn.

ockham :

Thanks for the zip's :)

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Creating morphs with magnets in Poser can be a fast solution sometimes.
If you want heavy modifications you're prolly faster in an modeling environment.

I don't know C4D's coffee... Maybe you can add mirroring via a script in C4D.
OTOH, it's hard to believe that C4D does not support mirroring by default coz it is some very common function.

Clothing the character first and then model (or deform) the morphs to it sounds really odd.
It works well with magnets in Poser because you can often apply the deforming on the figure also on the cloth part. That saves you the work of doing it on the cloth from scratch but also requires most often additional deformers for tweaking the cloth.

Most heavy duty morphers I know use a major 3d app to do them. because the workflow is quicker. When you are making a few hundered morphs, you can;t spend 2 hours trying to make one, because you;ll never get done.

Most popular apps are lightwave3d, 3ds max, zbrush, c4d, and modo.

Fastest morphing tools are probably in zbrush, modo and lightwave 9.2.

What I can in lightwave in 3 minutes takes me 15 minutes in poser, and whith a lot of morphs, you REALLY need point level access. smalle details things like eyelashes, teeth n such can be hell trying to fiddle with in poser.

Zarat

Never tried to make morphs to anther mesh that I can not change the order of the vertices or change the geometry to.

This is all new to me need new tolls for this.

Will are still looking to see what tools,plugs C4D has for this.

If your referring to my tShirt thread.

Not trying to morph V4 to fit a tShirt

I am just learning how Poser works.

Gareee

I am still loading software back on to my PC from where we had to reformat it cause of a virus.

I need to load zBrush and LW 7.5c.ASAP.

I never had a chance to use LW much and it's been years since I used it.

Does LW 7 or 9 have symmetry magnets so what I tweak on the left of the body mirrors the right with out changing the order of the vertices ?

in 7,9 can ya grab a row of vertices with a magnet tool ?

Never had a chance to demo Modo.

Is Modo really good for Morphs ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

HELP !!!

I load the morphs in Properties / Add Morph Targets.

And a set the morph to 1 and it just explodes the mesh.

not the desired effect we where going for.

So how do we get the morph to morph correctly and not explode ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

(cough...) Poser Magents, and Magnet Tool!

Attached Link: "Morph Target" Tutorial at Dr Geep Studios

Explodes? ........ Do you mean .......... like this?

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Does the mesh gets bigger and go out of sight? Then you have scaled the mesh. Does it crumble and distort, without getting bigger? Then your application does not preserve the Order of the Vertices.

What did you use for morphing? If you use Cinema, use Spanki's plugin, available here in Freestuff.

morphs same size looks crumpled and distorted.

Spanki's plugin I am not finding

according to the search engine there is no one named Spanki

Help

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Attached Link: Spankis free Riptide plugin

RipTide morphed worked :) Thanks a lot.

I just exported V4 abdomen out of Poser in to C4D for a test.

If I sort buy materials in riptide it divides V4 up deferent then in Poser.

Do you half to export the body parts out of Poser one at a time ?

What is the best / fastest way to get V4 out of Poser and in to C4D  for morphs ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Don't sort by materials, sort by groups. I am sorry that I cannot be a big help here, I do my morphs in Silo 2. I have Cinema 6 CE+, there is no riptide plugin for that old version.

You are a huge help.

I just have no clue about how to do any thing in Poser,yet.

Poser's manual is a blast, it goes ask others.

C4D price is killing me, I'm using Basic 9.1 & BP 2.

to upgrade to Basic 10 is $400 BP 2 to 3 $400

$3500 for C4D Studio 10,LOL In my dreams.

Using a old GeForce,need a new PC.

Hoping to make some $$$ here for some upgrades and there is a lot of kool stuff for Poser Characters and all I would like to have.

If I want to keep my hobbies my hobbies has to start supporting them selfs.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

I know what you mean.

But you could model clothes for the figures in Cinema 4D and sell them. Or make your own figure for sale. Make architectural scenes like Stonemason on Daz3d. Everything is possible.

I am using basic C4D9.1 and Poser 5

With RipTide I imported V4DevSuit .objs from the geometry folder.

if I do not split the mesh buy groups I can not get the morph to load Poser reads wrong vertices count.

Now if I split the mesh up buy Groups.

The mirror points mirror plug does not work on lcollar and rCollar

or any meshes that is divided.

and the mesh tears apart at the seems.

Really do not want to split the mesh buy groups in C4D.

Is there any way to load the morphs in Poser from a mesh that has not been split in to groups and not get the wrong vertices count ?

Any and all info about making Poser morphs is appreciated

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Attached Link: PhilC's site

One problems when using 2 deferent app's is who do ya ask,is there any one two ask.

I'm a idiot but I figured out if I import the mesh and do not split at all.

Do the morphs.

Then export the mesh then import it again then split it it works.

Seems a crazy way of doing things but it works.

But then I half to load every group in Poser one at a time.

So  how do ya make INJ's with the thumbs where ya click on the thumbs and the whole body morphs at once ?

PhilC is on my radar,those cloths tools have my attention.

Is the mesh in silo divided where you actually have a lot of meshes or is it just one mesh ?

What tools do you use in silo to make the morphs ?

Does silo have a mirror tool so if ya move V4's left shoulder her right  should would move ?

How stable is silo does it ever crash ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Attached Link: Silo's Homesite

About morph poses, I cannot help you with these. I haven't sold anything i made so I have no clue. Since chances are slim that anyone else still monitors this thread, I would suggest you start a new one with that question.

When ya have a sub divided mesh it is easy to tweak.

because ya have a few vertices and all the imaginary edges follow.

like inn the 4th .jpg down.

http://www.atomic-3d.com/RK_T_HyperNURBS.htm

But V4 is solidified.

This is driving me insane moving all this vertices and there are so many of them ya get folds and needle effects.

To say the lest this is disastrous.

And it is partially imposable to keep the mesh smooth.

This is so getting on my nerves I have smoked a hole pack of cigs in 8 hours.

At this rate it would take me a week to morph the body.

Witch is ridicules being that I could model her in a week.

Somebody save my sanity and tell me how to get a smoothed morphed body in a resonable amount of time.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Attached Link: Morphing Apollo's Head with silo.

I have included a video, there you see how it works with Silo. It does not take that long.

Thanks a lot for the effort but I can not get the video to play in Windows or QuickTime.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Attached Link: Xvid.org

Xvid worked :)

Silo 2 looks a lot deferent then 1, I tried 1's demo.

The iron tool helped a lot with the folds,forgot that C4D had a iron tool tell ya said smooth.

I have never worked on another's mesh before.

V4's topology kills me I so want to change the geometry but I no I can not.

Never worked on a mesh with such a high polycount

This is all new to me.

I can say I do not like none of this at all.

But I can learn a lot and just need to give my self time to learn to think in a solidfied way.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

C4D Iron or smoth does not bleand.

So the polygones high lited smoth 100%.

The polygones that are not seleted that is right next to the polygones that are seleted smooth 0%.

This does not make a smooth seem.

So what app's smooth bleand ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Silo 2 does. Probably ZBrush.  I think Cinema should do it too, but I have no idea how. Can't you modify the strength?

I sux with zBrush I try to make a babe she comes out a deformed bumpy monster but we have mirrors ;)
What tools do use for morphs in zBrush ?  Silo 2 does. Probably ZBrush......

once you get over the quirky interface zbrush is cooler than sliced bread.  the brushes all have focal shift points so you have control over the amount of impact on surrounding polygons.  you can also, in lw (not sure about 7.5) hit the "n" key when in "dragnet" mode.  that will also set the falloff on the surrounding polys.

I have no idea how to work on a solid high polygon mesh.

Not real sure what tools to even use in C4D,LW or any app.

I do know, none of the app's do it all and some app's are better suited for certain things.

I am using C4D 9 not sure what tools 10 has.

I will continue my education until I get a smooth morphed done.

Don't care witch app it's done in as long as it gets done.

I have no objections to using what ever app has the tools I need.

C4D 9 or 10,LW 7 or 9,Silo,zBrush,nSide.

Going to take a while for me to figure all this out thou.

zBrush is all right in my book.

I enjoy there gallery and I am impressed with the speed they get the Art done.

I was never good at modeling with zBrush there style of modeling and mine is not the same.

So never spent much time there.

I like there micro displacement map.

There auto UV and 3D painting.

They go all out to get ya learning materials.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

I made a HyperNurb version of V4 I can reshape the entire mesh easy and smoothly.

The bad part is the vertices #ing gets fried.

The only way I know of now ,to get the Vertices #ing correct is take my mesh with wrong vertices #ing lay V4 over top my mesh and vertices buy vertices all 20,491 vertices stitch and sew V4's correct vertices #ing to where my wrong Vertices #ing is setting at in 3D Space.

To do this would take two to three weeks to do 20,491 vertices one buy one.

If I could find a way to get V4's correct vertices #ing setting where my vertices are setting in a click or two

I could morph a body in a few hours witch would be a lot better then 2 to 3 weeks.

Besides stich and sew 20,491 vertices one buy one would drive me insane.

Any and all suggestions on how to get the stitch and sew automatically is appreciated.

Most morphs I see at the market place looks like small tweaks.

They have not totally redone V4's body they just sorta reshaped her breast and ass a little bit but it's still the same breast and ass.

Witch I am guessing took them a few minutes.

What is the average amount of time it takes to tweak the entire V4DevSuit and tweak the mesh un till it looks like a totally new mesh.

Not that I would make this morphs but a totally new mesh that looks as deferent as King Kong to Godzilla for example.

Would 2 to 3 hours ,days ,weeks be average ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

I don't think a Hypernurbs V4 will help you in any way. You cannot make morphs from her and cannot publish derative works, because of DAZs copyright.

Do morphs with Zbrush, it should be great for that. Or use Cinema's magnet tool. You can even try Silo 2.0 (the beta is free in the forums now). Hope that helps.

I figured out a way to make morphs with a HyperNURB'ed V4.

I know I can not give a way / sell the HyperNURB V4.

But as soon as I learn Poser well.

Ya can bet I will make a Poser version of my mesh.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

WOW!

Okay, first off RorrKonn... I checked your site and I must say great job on modeling the human heads. I tried some of the freebie modelers available and gave up completely. Modelling just aint my bag :P

And so after reading through this whole thread, I've come to the conclusion that your biggest problem here is.... you've got too much going on at once! I mean, you started off bouncing between C4D, Poser5, Zbrush and Silo... only to end up building a HyperNurb(?) V4 three weeks later. Again, WOW! You've definitely got WAY too much on your plate right now!

The best advice that I can give you (as a non-modeller) is to back up and try to pick just ONE application to work with. After all, you're only human (right?) and it's a known fact that the human body can't physically go in four directions at once... which is exactly what you seem to be attempting here. Granted, a lot of people here use more than one program to create their products and such but, they generally use only one little part of each app to get the job done.
In your case, all you seem to want here is to make some custom morphs for V4. No problem! Poser can do that, especially with magnets (like Angelouscuitry said earlier).

Now, the whole key to Posers magnets is to take things one step at a time! At first, load up a primitive prop (sphere or box) and apply a magnet to it. Experiment and familiarize yourself with the magnet and it's zone. See how they work separately and together. Play around with scaling and xyz coords on both. You'll see real quick just how powerful these magnets are!
After that, go tutorial hunting for some more magnet info (DrGeep is a great place to start). It's only after you're comfortable with Poser's magnets that you should even try tackling V4 with em! Trust me, with you're modelling abilities, learning magnets should be a fairly easy and quick process for you.

I know I just wrote a lot of pep-talk nonsense but, then again I done have any REAL technical jargon for ya! Hopefully my simple advice will help you anyway. If not, then carry on with what you're doing and good luck! I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got in store for us!

Later

Oh goody, a crosspost :P
Well RK, glad to hear the HyperNurb thing is working out :)
Keep at it and good luck!

CyberScape:

Thanks for the complement.

Ya could get that free Silo beta out of there forms.

And follow the tutorial.

http://www.nevercenter.com/tutorials/html_tutorials/user_tutorials/character_modeling/

Modeling is only imposable till ya do it,then it's easy.

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com

Bantha :

Does Silo have a .pdf manual and if it does where might one download it from ?

The 2.0 beta does not have one, you have to extract your information from the forum. 1.4 has a manual, but you cannot use that for morphs, I fear. For making morphs use "soft selection", then you can raise/lower the area affected with the mouse wheel and you can tweak the model with the left mouse button, when you press [ctrl] at the same time.

Man do I hate being a newbie at something.

Poser is imposable ever step you advance ya hit a wall.

But here is a stupid question.

I loaded LeftThigh morph in Poser 5 buy going Properties / Add Morphs Targets.

The morphs is in Parameters / Morph / Shape 1.

Now if I turn the wheel to 1 it's the morph I made witch is what I want.

But it also enlargers the mesh a small amount witch I do not want.

If I turn the wheel to 20 it enlarges the mesh a lot.

If I leave the wheel at 0 no morph.

So now what do I do ?

RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com