I'm reposting this question here due to the underwhelming response the post got in the Poser Technical forum. Can a CR2 file (figure) that was modified into PZ2 files (pose) be used to distribute a modified figure without violating the figure's copyright? All these new MAT file techniques inspired me to start messing with the CR2s. I changed a CR2 file so it included only the following parts: - version tag - The second group of ACTOR tags (the ones starting with name GETSTRING.) Presumably, I could just include the ones with changes in them. I deleted all other parts, including the geomCustom parts that contain the actual geometries. I then saved the whole thing as a PZ2 file (pose). I then applied the pose file to the original figure and it worked in changing the figure: - I still needed the original figure because I could not extract a useable new figure from the pose file. - The new pose file now contains things that could not formerly be included in a pose file. - This has an advantage over distributing a CR2 file because I don't have to worry if an object is embedded or not. Does anyone see a problem with this technique, especially for distributing new characters or poses from pre-existing ones (such as any figures with embedded OBJs, Michael, or Vicky 2, though I haven't tried this on Vicky 2)? Thanks. azl

Well, I don't see a problem but a Pose file doesn't contain the object anyway. Its just a refernce the Cr2 character can use to positions limbs. You can use any Pose on any figure. But I do realize that poses intended for say, Vicki, won't neccessarilly work on a P4 female. Since, That Pose file has joint info specific to Vicki. Distributing Poses unless said otherwise from DAZ3D is in no way a copyright violation since you can't really copyright a pose. What additional items are included with file when done your way? JanP

Actually, since I'm editing the lines themselves, I can include or remove any parts I want. I just want to be sure that I remove any parts that infringe on copyright. The file just includes everything from the second group of ACTOR tags forward -- but even that can be edited. azl

Um, sorry if I'm missing something, but why not just save the pose instead of editing the figure CR2? With Poser 4.03 anyway, it'll save the morph settings in the pose.

This is just a technique for creating poses that contain items that are NOT saved by saving regular poses (for example, material settings).

Sounds legit to me. All the poser files are the same anyway. They just include or exclude irrelevant parts. A pose file containing material info is a good idea. Since you don't pass on geom info then I can't see a problem with the idea.

As long as you exclude the actual morphs, props or any other geometry, it should be safe to use and provide no matter how you got there. Transferring data in or cutting it out is pretty much your choice. Pasteing in may be quicker to do though. Thinking out loud... A PZ2-MAT file has to be a cut-n-paste from a CR2 Materials section anyway. It can contain has much or as little of the infromation there as you wish to include? I do not see how any information here can be propriatary. The information that is propriatary is the delta information and any geometry information. If you are doing a cut-n-paste, you leave these out. Poser will automatically save any X/Y/Z rot key data and if you enable it, the name and key data for any morphs in the CR2 that you are saving it from. I suspect that it will include the channels for any props that may be parented to the figure. Unless prop/hair information is something you mean to include, it is best left out. If there are channels' key data that you wish to have in an 'automatic apply' form, it looks as though this can be done. I would like to set the Ztrans for each eye to -0.0005 and now, I think I can cut-n-paste PZ2 to do just this. It looks like any channel can be set by a PZ2 file, not just the rotate and morph channels. Hey, I wounder if scale information can be kept like this? How about a PZ2 that automaticaly scales the head or rescales the hands and feet using tmech's method? There could be a PZ2 for a 5'1" / 5'2" / 5'3" /etc. figure. Most seem to ignore the height of their characters, this could make it a one click option?

Yes, my experiments indicate that any channel, including scale, translation, and basically any parameter dial can be set in this way.

AZL is correct. Scaling information can definitely be included in pose files. It would be nice if Poser gave you the option to do this when you save. My question is whether joint parameters can be put in pose files. This would allow for serious moification of figures which could be distributed via a much smaller file. Beth

Scale fails for me. What is the secret? Is there a preset in the top menus, that I should enable or disable?

I think JP are something different. If MorphManager could handle these channels in addition to morph channels, then they could be copied, file to file.

CR2Edit has been able to transfer JP for over a year, check your manual, and can create pose files using only the body parts you want to include, rather than the entire figure, for nearly as long. Dan http://www.neca.com/~dwilmes/cr2edit.html Sorry Win only for software http://www.zenwareonline.com for ZenPaint, ZenTile, ZenGrid and VueMaster

Why exactly does it it matter that a pose file doesn't save material info When the character itself already does.

Never mind, I got it to work. I now have a Tmech scale PZ2, it automaticaaly scales the hands and feet down by ~8%, Everything but them up by 108%, body scaled down to 92.5% JanP: Go back thru the the threads for a week or two and also the Copyright forum. This about providing characters based on V2. At least it started that way. It is spreading way beyond this. We are discoving ways to provide characters, texture placement and other things, without having to use the CR2 (which we can not with V2). It will save 90-99% of the bandwidth and do the same job.

Dan, I have not tried transfering with CR2Edit. How lean can the donor be and still do the job?

It is possible to include Joint Parameters in pose files, too. I'm gonna have to take a look at CR2Edit, Dan. Does it handle Victoria 2? I don't seem to have anything that will. I can open a 100 meg image, but I can't open a 20 meg text file. Seems odd. Beth

MSWord will open V2, but my 1996 vintage version of EditPad will not. MM4 will open it. And, yes, CR2Edit will open it. I found it easier to check out the morphs if the limits were in a reasonable range. I opened a copy of V2 in MM4 and deleted all the morphs. I opened another copy in MSWord and did a find/replace min -10000 to min -1.0, and max 10000 to max 1.0 . Opened this beside the no morph copy and transferred the limit adjusted morphs over to the clean Cr2. (All the channels have min/max settings, not just morphs, and some of them do not like having their limits messed with. There are too many channels to do a yes/no on the find/replace. ) If you are going JP work, you may consider using a partially stripped CR2. The full thing is a bit unwieldy.

I answered this yesterday, but it never showed up, guess the Net hates me! Trying again... To transfer JP in CR2Edit is three clicks (click destination, source, transfer icon), and requires an actor, channel and at least 2 joints, but I haven't tried it on a stripped one. Would make more sense to transfer first and then strip. There is no limit on filesize for the automatic tools in CR2Edit. The manual editor in ver4 has about a 12MB limit, but ver5beta is unlimited, and loads V2 in less than ten seconds -- try THAT in Word, LOL! The pose files that it creates have all info in them, from embedded geom to all parameters, and can be created using any combination of body parts, not just the whole body. Dan http://www.neca.com/~dwilmes/cr2edit.html Sorry Win only for software http://www.zenwareonline.com for ZenPaint, ZenTile, ZenGrid and VueMaster