Quote - Price is on relative to how much you earn and how much your living depends on it.

Sure -- so long as the boss is paying for it: money is no object!

It used to be that my PC equipment at home was nothing more than an expensive toy -- and the PC served no other purpose than for games & for off-hours Poser 4.  Well -- my home PC equipment has now evolved into a different animal altogether -- it's used for pure business purposes around 80% or more of the time.

And, yeah -- with business purposes: all of the equipment, software, etc. becomes a legitimate tax write off.  So from a fiscal point of view: it's all a balancing act.

I'm still not going to invest $15,000 in a truly cutting-edge system that won't be worth a plug nickel in 36months.

I almost never play PC games anymore.  Although I will play solitaire or other games on my Palm during those rare times when I have nothing better to do.

And yes -- I have a couple of co-workers who walk around all day with .mp3 players dangling around their necks & headphones semi-permanently clamped to their heads -- bumping into walls, etc..  They listen to audio books all of the time.  Personally, I tend to listen to talk radio during the day.  Rush Limbaugh -- who'd have thunk it...............?

You Brits just don't know what you are missing with American conservative talk radio.  You ought to listen over the internet.  Get educated. :sneaky:

1. My original 128K Mac system cost $3500. Bang for buck continues to accellerate.
2. cars cost $25,000. They depreciate nearly as fast as PCs. But they don't get better.

:: og ::

Oh, I dunno -- a 1963 Corvette in good condition is worth a decent amount of money.  Pretty much any 1963 model car in good condition would be worth something.

But come to think of it: a 1963-era computer might be worth something as a museum piece.  So maybe you should hang onto that old Amiga for the next 50 years or so -- you might be able to sell it for a few hundred then.

I certainly agree that today's computers provide you with more value for the money than PC's ten years ago did.  That's one thing that seems to be rapidly improving.  Kind of like the original VCR's cost $1200 -- you can now pick up a decent DVD player/recorder for less than $100.  I don't see fair-to-good PC's ever selling for that cheap, though.

And I still don't see buying at the top end of whatever's current as being a good investment........unless if you are someone to whom $20,000 is mere lunch money.  Then it might not matter.

i don't buy at the top, either.

ok specs for the ultimate CG Workstation..

Dec (10)  FTL Optical Cores running at 60 teraFLOPS per Core
200 Terrabytes of Holographic RAM
Direct Neural Interface
Desktop FABBER with Molecular Resolution for Output of 3D Models.

all of which would be obselete soon as you take it out of the shipping containers....

Cray XMT.  I win.  The end. :biggrin:

The only reason why I say the things that I've said is because I've known people to entangle themselves in debt so that they could buy something that wasn't worth anything 3 or 4 years later.  Or even faster than that, in some cases.

Sure -- if someone is heavy on the personal resource end of the equation: then there might not be any issue at all involved in purchasing the current Ferrari of computers.  But for the vast majority of the poplulation -- an expenditure of many 1000's of dollars needs to be considered carefully.  Or at least it should be.  If I can get what I need for $2000, then $10,000 is additional money spent for nothin' but (temporary) braggin' rights.  Better to hang onto the money, and then buy another $2000 machine in 3 years.

But to each their own -- everyone can do as they like.  Even if doing it is fiscally foolish behavior in some cases.

Quote - You Brits just don't know what you are missing with American conservative talk radio.  You ought to listen over the internet.  Get educated. :sneaky:

I hope that was meant tongue in cheek...if you going to talk about being educated, let me just remind you that as a nation you voted Bush in for a second term ;0)
Meanwhile I think I will just continue to buy off DAZ (or any online company that allows me to purchase in $'s) and thank the lord that the US economy is crap. I can get even more bang for my buck, than you can lol!

Ain't that the truth.  I didn't vote for 'Yee-harh' Bush in either election.  I didn't vote for a single Republican in the Congressional elections.  I didn't fall for the 'Saddam is Bin Laden's best mate' scam and warned of the impending scenario that now exists in Iraq even before Powell went to the U.N..  Some fools will never learn.  And the funniest part is that the 'people' who keep supporting this idiocy are the exact people from whom the worst toll is being extracted: taxes, armed force servitude, the worst debt in the history of the planet (not even Rome could take so much surplus and squander it so quickly).

But I digress...

Quote - I hope that was meant tongue in cheek...

Of course it was. 

Quote - if you going to talk about being educated, let me just remind you that as a nation you voted Bush in for a second term ;0)
Meanwhile I think I will just continue to buy off DAZ (or any online company that allows me to purchase in $'s) and thank the lord that the US economy is crap. I can get even more bang for my buck, than you can lol!

Much as I'd love to debate politics and the state of the US economy (which is actually very good -- outside of media-generated Chicken Little syndromes -- the sky is always falling.  Even when it isn't.) -- they don't allow political debate here.  And I've more-or-less given up debating politics online as a bad job -- it doesn't pay anything.  But I'm not above the occasional jab to the ribs.  It's a rude habit of mine.

You really ought to be listening to Rush.......:biggrin:

oh Rush... I love LOVE Rush!

you heard their latest Album Snakes & Arrows? best they've done since Presto

Those guys are still in business....?

I'll betcha that they aren't as rich as that other Rush.........  He can even afford to buy 60 iPhones, and then give them away to his employees and friends!

He's even got several of the latest, highest-end Macs at his various haunts!  And I imagine that he can afford them, too.

How well the economy is doing largely depends upon where you stand.  For example: John Kerry's economy is doing great: marry it, and then you've got it.  Maybe.

Rush = Ayn Rand and more power to them.

Quote - Those guys are still in business....?

and still going strong....

I once heard Barry Goldwater mention the fact that Lyndon Johnson was virtually penniless when Johnson first came to Washington & went into the Congress.  But by the time that Johnson left the Congress for the White House a few years later -- he was a multi-millionaire.

It's always fascinated me how it's possible to do that on a Congressman's salary.

LBJ sold his UNIVAC system for 2.4 Million while in office, that's how.

::::: attempting to stay remotly OnTopic :::::

UNIVAC, eh?  I just knew that computers were a good investment........

Maybe I can find somebody who'll buy mine for 2.4 million.

I also have a Kaypro circa 1983, but it only has 64K RAM

My first experience with a PC was on an Apple IIe.  Although I worked on a $35,000,000 IBM 370 mainframe before that -- a machine which didn't have the capabilities that the average Wal-Mart purchased PC does now.

"or donate them to schools" Noooo, don't give our children the junk of the past. Computers in schools should be the very best, especially for the youngest students. And renewed regularly, they need the very best tools, both for learning and to develop high order thinking skills, aging PCs don't deliver those. Our schools are the most important places on earth, the hope of the future is in our children and we must give them every advantage we can.

Another perspective:  Children are an alternate food source!  Don't spend money on public computers for schools, spend it on athletics programs to beef them up!

"Noooo, don't give our children the junk of the past. Computers in schools should be the very best, especially for the youngest students. And renewed regularly, they need the very best tools, both for learning and to develop high order thinking skills, aging PCs don't deliver those."

So a 1.8 GHZ Mac G5 or equivalent Dell workstation that has been declared "Obsolete" by the  righteous Pontificators of the "bleeding edge" is going to impede my 12 year Old son's ability to develop his "thinking skills"???

Faster & multicore  UBER CPU's have NOTHING to do with critical thinking
and learning. and never have

Is anyone really getting "smarter" or even more creative because of faster computers ???

check the galleries here

I am.  I have more time to read. ;P

Donate them to schools only because our educational system is in ruins and can't even afford teachers and adequate classroom size.  Don't talk to me about it - talk to the bunglers running this country (into the ground).

And I'm sorry, the economy is really great if you have stocks and bonds, are a CEO or athlete.  The rest of us are in debt five miles over our eyeballs, work 80/week, and still pay more taxes than the aforementioned.  Oh, and we're paying twice as much for gasoline and diesel and much higher prices for necessities (food, clothes, utilities) than we did a few years ago to compound the issue.

Just because the stock market is at 13000+ doesn't reflect a sound economy.  Someone is mentioning a possible recession not unlike the great depression within a few years.  The recent lowering of interest rates may (may) help to stem this.  I foresee a Bush-Rep induced economical crash.  Remember, if the US (the largest consumer on the planet) goes, they all go.  50000000 eu for a loaf of bread, anybody? ;)

shrug

That's the thing about prophets of doom.  Sooner or later they are bound to be right.  Just keep predicting disaster long enough -- and when it happens eventually -- then it can be blamed on whoever the bogeyman happens to be at the time.

I've been hearing such doom-saying speculation for a very long time now.  I suppose that whenever the next worldwide economic upheaval occurs (which it inevitably will) -- then the people who are around at that time can blame Bush for it.  After all: he steered a hurricane to New Orleans -- so he's clearly capable of destroying the worldwide economy, too.  Even many years after the fact.

Don't worry: we might get our taxes raised drastically a couple of years from now -- which will do wonders for the economy.  High taxes always do.

.........there's much more to say -- but this is getting dangerously close to politcal debate.  And I have V4's that need to be rendered.

Quote - I am.  I have more time to read. ;P

Actually -- I used to have a lot more time to read back in the days when regens in AutoCAD took a long time to do.  And when renders went on for many minutes -- or hours.  Keep a novel next to your computer.

Most of the time: you can't do that now.

I used to read more when I wasn't using computers as much. :) But with a faster computer, I can actually get things done faster.  Renders that took two hours a few years ago now take minutes which means that a book and I can go elsewhere when done.  Builds are so fast that I can't get up before they are done - even with sixty source files and five builds.  CodeWarrior on the other hand, with four builds, allows me time to stretch, make coffee, read 'War and Peace'.  It is aggretiously slow.  Xcode is much faster, but it stubbornly recompiles the API lib when switching projects (218 sources) which allows for coffee and stretch on ocassion.

I just try not to make that an excuse to do more on the computer - always difficult as we know.  Other than technical references, I like to read away from the computer.  If at the computer, usually with the monitor off for no distractions.  For instance, and not exactly difficult reading other than the UK slang, it was a quick day and a half to read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.  With that, computer, what computer? :D

Rush has a deal that gives him approximately a quarter-billion dollars a  year (not making this up). With all that money, who needs Oxycontin?...;) I dunno..I alternate with him, Steph Miller, Ed  "I know nothing" Schulz, and Randy Rhoads (sp? and not the dead guitar player..;) , I just think that a Conservative with a sense of humor is rare enough to observe...;) j/k..

All this political talk is making me nostalgic for the C&D, and OT forums..;)

The ultimate computer for rendering  would be the Holodeck, with teraquads of info..;) Vulcan Love slave indeed...;)

There was a time a couple of decades ago when I was able to spend an entire Saturday doing nothing but reading for hours upon hours -- and not even realize that the time was gone.  But I was single, my office hours ended at 5:00 in the afternoon, and I had few outside interests.

Nowadays -- reading usually consists of snatching the time between the demands on my time from this source and the demands on my time from that source and the demands on my time from the other source.  I might get the chance to read for a few minutes just before bed, or at other times.  And I look forward to those moments.  I wish that sleeping wasn't a necessity.  Ebooks on the Palm helps enormously with this situation.

Most days, I am able to spend time in the forums.  But that's because I'm chained to a computer for approx. 10-12 hours / day.

Quote - I just think that a Conservative with a sense of humor is rare enough to observe...;)

Actually, in my experience it's been the other way around.

((I started to type in more details, and then stopped myself.  This isn't C&D.  ))

That's why I attempt to keep the number of distractions down.  No games.  It was fun when there was time and more energy on my part.  No wasting time at seven hundred forums and websites and IMing and texting and MySpacingOut.  You could spend your entire life on the internet - and twice people have died doing it for like three days straight.  It is not a good thing, just a good thing for when it is needed.  There are a bunch of forums that are visited every day because they are crucial to what I do and my business.  And that's about it.  It is rare for me just to plonk around on the net aimlessly - not worth it.

Some people may be like, "Well you sure spend a lotta time typing in these forums." Yup.  I can type at about 60-80 wpm so it's not a big consumption. :)  I do hate 30 page topics though when you are new to it - it could take hours to read through them and I usually just skim or give up.

Yeah -- you are right about that.  I'm not big on 30-page+ threads anymore.  I do virtually the same as you -- if the topic of the thread holds any interest for me.

I get the chance to wander aimlessly on the internet mostly around this time of night -- just before sleep (it's after 2AM here).  Occasionally there's an interesting video on Youtube.......or an interesting news article linked on Drudge.  Or an interesting column at www.townhall.com.  

Fortunately, my work allows me to cruise the forums here on a regular basis.  Plus -- like you -- there are a number of websites that I visit nearly every day.  The more heavily that I'm getting into 3D, the more I'm getting real work out of it -- above and beyond my day job.  3D allows me to work from home.  And that's worth a lot.

Yes -- the computer has made it possible to increase the workload well beyond what would once have been considered to be "normal hours".  I haven't done 'normal' in years.  In fact: I don't believe that I ever was normal (whatever that means). 

Sometimes I copy and paste the really long threads into 'Speak Aloud' and listen while I get on with my work. If only I could figure out how to give each participant his or her own unique droid voice...

Quote - oh Rush... I love LOVE Rush!

you heard their latest Album Snakes & Arrows? best they've done since Presto

Anything but the album before it... blecch.

Presto I still treasure a lot (esp. [i]Available Light[/i] and [i]Scars[/i]).

Quote - So a 1.8 GHZ Mac G5 or equivalent Dell workstation that has been declared "Obsolete" by the  righteous Pontificators of the "bleeding edge" is going to impede my 12 year Old son's ability to develop his "thinking skills"???

Heh - I still happily use a dual 1.8 GHz PowerMac, thanks much. It happily runs any app that Poserdom can throw at it without trouble as well.

Okay - as a guy who used to have to receive school donations, let me clue y'all in:

• If it's only a couple of years old, can run the apps in the curricula, and isn't some cheap-arsed pile of eMachines crap, cool. I'd happily take it. Macs can stretch back to roughly 4-5 years old w/o too much hassle, while PC's can go back about 3 years or so.

• If it's really old, broken, incomplete, or otherwise unusable in the class, don't bother. I once had a bank donate an old IBM RS-6000 to us... they neglected to mention that it was an ancient first-gen model at the time, was the size of a typical US refrigerator (i.e. HUGE), weighed 850lbs, required 220VAC to power up, was lucky to get 10Mb/sec on the network, and had the approximate 'oomph of a Pentium I @ 90MHz (the classroom was full of P4m's and the servers bore 3GHz P4 Xeons). It was utterly useless (its scrap value was ab't $75), but the bank was able to write off their original purchase price on taxes (approx. $60k) as a charitable donation.

Quote - Donate them to schools only because our educational system is in ruins and can't even afford teachers and adequate classroom size.  Don't talk to me about it - talk to the bunglers running this country (into the ground).

Schools are controlled by localities, not national governments. They get (on average) shedloads of cash in most areas - from local, state, and federal funding. However, that money evaporates rather quickly in the morass of poor management decisions, top-heavy and bloated bureaucracies, junkets, and boondoggles that would stagger your mind. Every contractor knows the district has a blank check at the start of each fiscal year, and sets (read: inflates the hell out of) their bids to match it. I (and the state of Utah in a case a couple of years back) seen textbook budgets evaporate in deliberate and outright fraud, then watch as district management quickly plays a roundabout game of 'cover your buddy's arse' when time comes to assign blame. I have seen entire schools scrambling and fighting to grab as many students as they can due to a shortage of head-count (as a teacher, if you don't have the head-count, you don't have a job).

I have seen teachers' unions demand incerases and raises that would make you blush with envy. I have seen district administrators give themselves (and their underlings) raises that would make Congress look fiscally responsible by comparison. Then they go trotting out the "but.. but... it's for the chilluns!" argument when the legislature asks WTF happened to all the money they got at the beginning of the fiscal year.

Compare and contrast this with privately owned charter or "voucher" schools - efficient, cost-concious, higher academic standards [i]and performance[/i], and parents literally fight tooth and nail to get their kids into one whenever an opening is available.

--

whew - sorry, had to let that one out. Felt good, actually.

Anyway, don't donate 'em unless they're actually worth a damn. Thx.

/P

Hmmmm......interesting.  Don't know many details yet -- but I'm hearing that there's a run on the banks going on in Britain right now.  This story is not being widely reported in this country (US).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,2171546,00.html

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article2457009.ece

((This is a sidenote concerning posts earlier in this thread.))

BTW - the sub-prime loan thing is a perfect example of just how two-faced government policy can be.  For 20 years or more, the government's official line has been to jump on the banks for being socially prejudiced & not providing housing loans to low-income people in the inner cities, etc..  And now.........it's those very loans that are being defaulted on -- so the government is (of course) jumping on the banks over the issue of how DARE they have made such risky loans in the first place?

It's all GWB's fault.  He underwrote them all.  Personally.

*Hmmmm......interesting.  Don't know many details yet -- but I'm hearing that there's a run on the banks going on in Britain right now.  This story is not being widely reported in this country (US).

*erm thats 3 days old (your first link) and 6 days old (your second one) they are a little out of date...  and its bank (singular) just Northern Rock has been affected... no other banks have had runs on them....

Quote - *Hmmmm......interesting.  Don't know many details yet -- but I'm hearing that there's a run on the banks going on in Britain right now.  This story is not being widely reported in this country (US).

*erm thats 3 days old (your first link) and 6 days old (your second one) they are a little out of date...  and its bank (singular) just Northern Rock has been affected... no other banks have had runs on them....

shrug

Like I said -- I don't know all of the details.  It's just an interesting story to note.

The point being that bad things happen.  Anywhere and at any time.  Often: no one can forsee such events, or stop them from occuring.  But it's still human nature to look for a scapegoat to blame whenever bad stuff (such as natural disasters) appears on the horizon.