Attached Link: Realtime Panoramic to Angular Map conversion

So here's a new thread. I want to show you how it is possible in Poser to use panoramic images as IBL images even though that is the "wrong" format for Poser. It is done with shader nodes in the light's material.

I made a Flash animation. Rendo won't let me show this directly. So I have prepared a page on Google pages. The animation is about 1 Mbyte. Google claims I have no bandwidth limit, but I'm not sure they'll keep that up forever. But at least for some time, I believe the page will display correctly. If there are problems such that you can't see it, let me know.

If you're coming to this thread months or years later, I can't guarantee that the animation will still be there. If that is the case, send me a private message and I'll try to make it available. Several friends have offered to host files for me, but I do not want to impose at the moment. Plus, it is really easy for me to update Google pages directly.

If you're wondering how to do this yourself, I haven't decided yet how to go about making this possible for you, or if I even want to. I'm not clear how I want to package or distribute this. The math is not hard and I'd be happy to describe it for free, but it requires 54 nodes. Speed is not a problem. They run instantly. It is possible to package this as a ready-to-go Poser material file. You'd only have to load your image - nobody but me needs to understand the math or the shader nodes. But, like I said, I'm not feeling too charitable at the moment. So, for now, you can only look and wish.

Enjoy.

The Image_Map node in the upper left, called Angular_Map, is the resulting modified image to be used in the IBL.

I added another Image_Map, called Panoramic_Image, that is showing the unmodified texture file, without any math applied.

I am still thinking about how you used the light .... 

I assume the flash demo is merely an animated illustration or example of the panoramic "flat" image and how the light shader makes it appear on the spherical surface.  That is to say, the flash demo is not meant to convey a sphere reflecting the interior of a cylinder within which it has been placed.

Very interesting.

The third Image_Map is showing the original Angular_Map image that also comes with Poser 7. I hope it is clear that I don't need that. I just added it so you can compare the generated IBL probe with the static one. The corners are different, but that has no impact. IBL angular map corners are not used. Only the part within the unit circle matters. If it really bothers you, I could add another node to make the corners black, but I assure you the render is the same either way.

Quote - I am still thinking about how you used the light .... 

I assume the flash demo is merely an animated illustration or example of the panoramic "flat" image and how the light shader makes it appear on the spherical surface.  That is to say, the flash demo is not meant to convey a sphere reflecting the interior of a cylinder within which it has been placed.

Help me out - I'm having a hard time parsing this. This is not a drawing or faking of the lighting. These are 30 actual renders, with no postwork, and no trickery on the diffuse ball. The diffuse ball is drawn using the standard IBL lighting you already use with angular maps. All I did was make it automatic to convert the panorama to the right format.

Would you like to see a render using reflections, instead of just diffuse?

*Would you like to see a render using reflections, instead of just diffuse?

*Yes on that. I think this would be a fine product. And at a price

This is easily adjusted. I inserted an HSV node into the IBL shader, and reduced the saturation to 30%. You could do this today with any angular map, not just this auto-converted one.

I think this looks more real.

This is Frame #23. Remember there are no directional lights. Just the IBL.

dear lord. how did you do this???????????????????????
this would save hours and hours.

Very informal presentation there (including the Flash animation).  Can't wait to learn more.

Quote - dear lord. how did you do this???????????????????????
this would save hours and hours.

def TransformPanorama(filename):
 a = 2 * U - 1
 b = 2 * V - 1
 t = Hypot(a, b)
 
 aot = a/t
 bot = b/t

 t = pi * t
 sin_t = Sin(t)
 cos_t = Cos(t)
 
 y = sin_t * bot
 z = cos_t
 x = sin_t * aot

 v = V - arcSin(y)
 rot = 1.0/30 * (FN - 1) # rotation for the animation, FN is the frame number
 u = Add(rot, U - arcTan(z, x)).labelled("Panoramic Rotation")
 
 angularMap = ImageMap(filename, U_Scale = -1, U_Offset = u, V_Offset = v).labelled("Panoramic Image")
 angularMap = HSV(angularMap, 1, .3, 1)
 return angularMap

Meanwhile, a little amusement. Using exactly the same technique, but different math, here is another fun demonstration of image coordinate transformation.

Using only shaders, I can take any image, photo or render, and turn it into a kaleidoscope image.

By the way, if it hasn't occured to you yet, you should know that using the same techniques I can convert any of the following to any other, in any order, with Poser alone:

Mirror Ball
Angular Map
Panorama 
Multiple Mirror Ball (photos from different angles, add up to complete image, avoiding distortion)
Box map (six photos)

Attached Link: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=036891

Richardson!  Awesome ZB thread!

BB, any suggestions for getting specular using IBL in Poser?

So what you are saying is....

1. All we need is a good photo (hdr, whatever), 
2. Plug said photo into the setup you've rigged,
3. We have a correctly mapped image for use in IBL, that can also be used as the environment.

Sounds easy :)

More amazement, BB!

I take a ton of pan oramic images, so this will come in quite useful!

Bookmark.....

Quote - BB, any suggestions for getting specular using IBL in Poser?

Only a theory.

1. Really abuse the "blur" option (Softness) on the reflect node. Prepare to wait a long time. I wonder if Poser will let me set blur more than 1. I'll have to try it.
2. Prepare a copy of the panorama, blurred. Connect that to a Sphere_Map on your material.

I have hopes that #2 can cheaply address soft specular such as on leather or rubber.

Have a look at this thread at RDNA:

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?ShowMessage=265876

The three on the left have no diffuse at all. Reflection "Softness" on the top is 0 (clean), then 3, then 5. Quality was 1.

The three on the right do have diffuse colors. Top down the Softness was 1 for yellow, 3 for blue, and 5 for white. Quality = 1.

All have various "Fresnel" Edge_Blend settings from mild to strong plugged into the Reflection_Value.

Some of them are sort of looking like soft specular, but nothing is perfect. Sad. This would be such a great way to do it.

I used pretty aggressive render settings to try to give it the best chance at quality.

Min Shading Rate = .5
Pixel Samples = 3
Irradiance caching = 98

I just tried setting all the Reflect nodes Quality = 2, in hopes that this increases the number of samples or something like it. Such changes work for AO, but not for reflection. Apparently the quality is clamped at 1. Too bad. Poser 7's AO with 10 samples is very clean now. Why isn't such an option available for Reflection?

This is the result I had hoped to get from blurred reflection. Since that was a bust, I'd say this is the only option at the moment. I can't figure out any way to do blurring directly in Poser. Silly isn't it? There should absolutely be a Gaussian Blur node. That would solve a lot of problems.

By the way, this technique, using a Phong exponent of 1, would produce exactly the same results as IBL lights do with angular maps. So people could do this in Poser 5 to simulate IBL just the same. No way to do AO though.

Hey! YOU are the Guru! Yer supposed to answer questions, not ask them! ;)

*1) Really abuse the "blur" option (Softness) on the reflect node. Prepare to wait a long time. I wonder if Poser will let me set blur more than 1. I'll have to try it.

I was playing with that option a while back, with mixed success.  And as you say, blurring the image gave a much better effect than using the softness option.  I had problems mixing real reflections (off chrome, etc - which used a none blurred map) with specular reflections (requiring a blurred map).  Maybe 2 render passes would fix that, not sure. 

*Now using the Phong=10 image, brightness 2.5 on James. He's got that wet-specular look. All with only one IBL light!

I was able to sort of get a similar effect, but it feel apart on face close-up (although maybe IBL is not appropriate for portraits, where studio lighting would be more suited).

I think I'm getting somewhere with this. I'm having those darn AO ray bias problems again. Yes, I'm using material based AO.

This render is using only the HDRI IBL light. I've put the Phong 2.5 blurred sphere_map on the skin, and the Phong 10 blurred sphere_map on the fingernails. I also added a faked SSS using the Phong 2.5 -> Blender(Orange * texture, White * texture). I need to play more with this SSS setup as I've always driven it with a specular node, and maybe the color/brightness of it is wrong a bit. I should be using a bump map, too.

So it's not perfect yet. But this render of James is more realistic than anything I've produced before using directional lights. I think the HDR specular is key.

What do you think?

it looks like i have been thinking the same but a little different. i need to test this with HDR shop.

Quote - > Quote -

Have a look at this thread at RDNA:

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?ShowMessage=265876

it doesnt open the thread. is there the link to the material?

i still have no idea on how to set up this shader, BB you truely are a god of poser

it is better to blur the panorama image with HDRSHOP. becase then you dont have a line or seam on the object. if you blur it in photoshop it will not look good.

bagginsbill you said 2 years ago  that Phong exponent of 10 is similar to specular roughness of 0,1. did you test this or is it written somewhere?

this wouldnt be the same with a GC material right?

i think this combined with the VSS skin shader could really boost the realism in the render.

i htink i found my anwer. this right?
projects.ict.usc.edu/graphics/HDRShop/tutorial/tutorial6.html

I don't remember what I said or why, but that's wrong. Heheh. Like anything in poser, I would just experiment and see what looks good.

You can actually build a test rig to compare the Specular node with a Phong exponent directly in the material room, without rendering.

Set up just one infinite light pointing directly forward. (X rotate = 0, Y rotate = 0, Z rotate = 0).

Go into the material room and set up this shader.

It combines left side = Specular node, right side = Phong exponent.

You can then put any Roughness you want into the Specular node, and adjust the Phong exponent until it matches visually in the PoserSurface preview. The Phong exponent is in the Math:Pow.Value_2.

Here is Roughness = .1, compared to PE=10. Not a good match.

Other matches

Roughness .05 = PE 100
Roughness .02 = PE 250
Roughness .01 = PE 500

looks like this relation is pretty consistent:  PE = 5 / Roughness

I plugged a Math:Div node 5 / Roughness into the Pow node. Works every time, no matter what I choose for Roughness.

So there you go.

so when in HDRshop its  PE = 5 / Roughness