After years of posting nudes, I have decided not to post nudes to Renderosity because of the thumbnail policy.   This is the only site requiring thumbs for nudity.   This is and extra step which is, at this time in my life, is just too much.  It is almost like censorship but most of all it is extra work, which to me seems nonsense.   Thank you all.

Just curious, why couldn't you follow this advice from the Thumbnail guideline ...

     We will allow the Renderosity generic "Content Advisory" icon. 
     Just right click and save to your hard drive, then upload in the
     slot for your thumbnail. OR make a proper thumbnail that is
     representative of your image, but doesn't show nudity/violence

That is, simply use the "Content Advisory" icon? 

--
Martin

Just to clarify this is not the only site that has a "no nudity in thumbnails" policy.  There are actually quite a few  "art" sites that have the same type of policy for thumbs.

FYI

I wish other sites had a thumbnail policy, that way when I was surfing thru the galleries I wouldn't have to see a up close thumb of some guys/girls genitals. I do understand that it is an extra step but it is an extra step for the good I feel.

I support the use of thumbs for nude and violent images I think its a great rule and has taken me less then 15 sec to add it to the image..

I have been known to post a few nudes and I see no problem with using the thumb to hide it
the reason i like it so much is sometimes my 6 year old sits in my lap while i click around to different images and its great cause I can always tell what not to click on while hes in my lap including some of my own images I would not click on while hes in my lap.

nothing worse then having a kid in your lap click on an image and try to click the little X in the right hand corner fast enough before he ask questions lol
Miranda

Had a look at your gallery - I think if you stop posting nudes then it will be a great loss as I think your work is very good and interesting - not everyone objects to nudes and for all the fuss over nudes when ever I post a nude under my other log in name they always get a lot more views than my landscapes - doesnt that tell you something.
Anyway after all the work you put into some of your shots is making a thumbnail such a big deal,it only takes a few minutes.
Carry on posting and make a few minutes time for the thumbnail - I think it would be a loss if you stop posting.
Eddie

Quote - - not everyone objects to nudes and for all the fuss over nudes when ever I post a nude under my other log in name they always get a lot more views than my landscapes - doesnt that tell you something.
Eddie

I have a agree my nude works gets about triple the views of my non nudes in the first 24 hours but I have yet to have a nude image receive more comments than one of my nature/animal shots- doesn't that tell ya something to?

I fully agree with the policy.

It is a pity you should value posting your images here so low that it is not worth making a thumbnail that is acceptable to the community.  Still,  I wish you well for the future.

Incidentally I have images containing nudity that have more comments than some of my landscape or nature images.
Now if I could only work out what that says to me

Those generic thumbs are really a disaster. Because you never know what they represent. Sometimes it's worth looking, often it's, like they say: crap. So I don't click them.

But of course the owners of Renderosity may do with their site what they like. It's a bit sad, but then again, we're all free to stay or go. Many went, many stay. And finally we may be happy to have a gallery as they don't really make any money on us, and maintaining a site like this -with personnel!- costs a lot of money.

To Abe: I know where to find you on deviant, abe64, so to me it's not a problem. You have a very personal style, a kind of  very personal "realism", or perhaps better: raw honesty. I've never seen you show anything that that could be seen as vile, low, base, porn or whatever. 

You're an interesting photographer, and to me that's all that matters. Don't stop taking good pics!

ummmmm **Tanchelyn renderosity makes tons of money with this kind of traffic and merchant accounts im sure their server bill feels like 10 cents to us or they wouldnt do all the hard work they do :-)
I know photography dont make a dime for them outside of showing the amount of traffic if they want to sell ads or something :-)

i know its a free site for our use to upload :-)
**

Hehe.
Been listening to an oldie lately.
Mothers of Invention: "we're only in it for the money."

You're right, and ads / traffic must indeed pay the ketchup on the pancakes.
But I guess it's Poser that makes the money.
Or you should count some of the (good quality!) brushes for PS...

back to bibble...

yep i would say poser is the big money maker here :-) and i have seen many post before of people complain about the poser crowds and their art and their nudes but they provide a place for photographers to post for free so I wouldnt complain to much about them ... I figure we can start complaining when we can down load lens and cameras and lights and film from the site lol

Just my thought about the nude thumbs

maybe it is just me,
I know there are rules on other websites, but the poser thumbs are almost naked
and you see all the time new ones that blinks

to me there is no difference between POSER and real nude

**Ger50 I have to agree with you on that one... any one that knows me knows im far from being a prude if you been to my gallery :-)
and I have to say I just got off being ban for 3 days because of a cartoon I had in my bio it showed a cartoon butt crack one simple pencile line to make that.. and i feel the poser thumbs you show for sure show a lot more then I would care for my 6 year old to see.. but the cartoon butt I got ban for my 6 year old sees all the time on TV lol

Dont get me wrong im not complaing about being ban for the cartoon butt at all or renderosity rules. sometimes when you have this many people in one place with this many taste its very hard to draw the line in the perfect spot on rules and still have it fall fair for everyone...

yes im a bit offended and took it very personal i was ban over a cartoon butt .. and when you see poser images show all but a nipple im thinking thats more breast then i care for my 6 year old to see...but its ok to have that. and i could get all up in arms over it and try and cause a stink
but that would be very silly for me to do :-)

cause i say its still a case of this many people the line of rules will always move in the direction to please the major part of the crowds and that major part is poser they make the money here and im sure if i owned this site and was faced with the same bills and same job I bet I would make the same call as they have.. and same with anyone that own this site...
the hard part on a staff like renderosity is im sure they have sat down and looked at all rules long and hard.. and know matter how perfect they feel they get them.. there is always someone in the crowd thats not going to like them at all.... its not possible to please everyone with rules or without rules... ya just have to do your best to live within the rules given....

like me for example i know my art can cause some problems for most and some even take my art as personal or crude and think im just some rebel... when in my mind I think my stuff I post here was pretty mellow.... and it seem like when i think im within the rules im a bit shocked when i find out im not lol... does this make renderosity a bad place?? heck no if it was would i be here typing now? its a great place great people .. with me I just know my art dont fit here due to the nature of what I shoot and say in my images.. no big deal at all. so i pulled my gallery now everyone is happy and we all learn and grow real simple... my art here
it would be like me trying to sell norman rockwell images at a porn convention lol the 2 just dont go hand in hand is all..... not a huge deal at all :-)

what im saying is we can knit pick the rules all day long but you have to realize your knit picking rules they put a lot of thought into and no rules are every perfect but I do think the ones they have are livable for the majority of the crowd... and i know they are always rethinking the rules as well...
for example a few years ago my hubby post an image of my son in the tub as a baby and it was cute as can be :-) well over time it got deleted due to new rules.. now you can jump up and down and say how dare you... thats a cute image or you can say thank you I didnt think about the perverts that was looking at it through different eyes then mine...

you can count on renderosity dont just make up rules as they go along they make the rules based on the amount of complaints or maybe from stuff they read on the net that happen to other sites and they want to prevent it from happening here...its not easy running a site like this and make everyone happy from any age that may log on.. and still have to make a living doing it :-)
thats my insight anyway sorry for bad spelling lol
Miranda

**

Sometimes rules are rules without a fully thought out policy behind them. I remember going to a city in california which had signs every 30 feet along the beach about no nudity, no topless, minimum bikini size (with diagrams) etc etc, 1/2 mile inland was the biggest porn store you've ever seen with completely open windows like a normal shop, all the 'wares' on display for anyone walking past. I just couldn't get over what I saw as a huge gap in what could be acceptable in a 1/2 mile space. In th end I just figured 'Oh well!' :(

It's a bit like that here, people will take the rules to the absolute letter, hence all the badly created soft porn in the poser gallery compared to some of the talented photographers here who produce fantastic art that happens to contain nude images. (That said there are a few exceptional poser artists here too.)

abetaltre, your nudes are well done and a sense of beauty of the human body not seen in the vile and poorly done ones, in photos and poser. Keep posting!  The thumbs are worth it for the rest of us who might want to see your new work..   Tom.

I think it has been shown in this thread why Renderosity made the decision to eliminate nudity in thumbs, and that they are not the only site to do it. I will make no excuses for the Poser images on the front page, I am not sure about why they are allowed myself. Abe, you do great work and obviously put a lot of time into your images. Surely a cropped detail would take you no more than a few seconds to create, and would look much better than the generic Content Advisory image.

Well said Kort. :)

Kort I agree well said
wish I could learn to explain my views in very short lines like you can and still get the point accross very well.. I tend to ramble on and on lol
you should hear me in person i start joking and talking the second i wake up till i fall alseep lol
and people that pay cell phone bills by the minute no better then to call me cause i can drain their minutes in one phone call lol

If he should decide not to come back on his decision, there's always is own site and also his gallery on deviantart, name abe64.

Without wanting to keep on turning 'round this subject, there is one thing I don't understand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that nudity and violence had to be checked. And I thought that was because people who were offended by both or either would be spared from being confronted with what they'd prefer to avoid. So how come that people still can see them when you checked one, or both when uploading? Is Renderosity's code not good (yet) ?
How can it be that someone can see a thumbnail of an image (s)he has clearly chosen not to see?

Anyways, I don't care. As long as it's fun coming here, I won't stay away. There are things that shock/bore me more than a visual representation of skin, but I'm shure some other people will get a feeling of purpose and pride when they view those. ;)

Let me clarify that the rules for the Marketplace thumbnails are EXACTLY the same rules for the gallery thumbnails. The examples shown above for Marketplace thumbs would also be allowed as thumbs for the gallery so not sure how that is relevant to the topic of this thread. We aren't being inconsistent in the Marketplace and the gallery, they are the same guidelines. 

I could understand the comparsion with these two images IF we allowed one type of thumb in the gallery and one type in the Marketplace but thats not the case at all. The thumbs shown as an example from the Marketplace would most definitely be okay in the gallery as well so......

It doesn't matter if the render is a 3d character, cartoon or real person, the guidelines still apply.

You're absolutely right! And you have a great example in art history to support your opinion! Namely, Pope Paul IV who gave Daniele Da Volterra (aka Daniele Ricciarelli) and Girolamo da Fano to cover the nudity Michel Angelo Buonarotti had painted in the Sistine Chapel.

But I would love to get an answer to my question, sorry to quote myself: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that nudity and violence had to be checked. And I thought that was because people who were offended by both or either would be spared from being confronted with what they'd prefer to avoid. So how come that people still can see them when you checked one, or both when uploading? Is Renderosity's code not good (yet) ?
How can it be that someone can see a thumbnail of an image (s)he has clearly chosen not to see?"

If a member turns their nudity filter on they will see anything flagged for nudity having the generic "content advisory" thumbnail. They could still click on it if they want but it clearly lets them know by the flag and the CONTENT ADVISORY on the thumb that there is nudity and/or violence in the full image so they can avoid these altogether.

The change in the thumbnail policy was NOT for people having their nudity filter turned on, there were various reason. The reasoning behind the thumbnail change policy was listed in the Front Page article so I'm not going to go over all that again as you can read it all at the link below.

http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13431

For some reason, I do not like it when the thumb is not a representation of the image itself.
And for some reason, I never click on a 'content advisory' thumb... I just don't find them attractive. If (purely hypothetical) every member should upload a nude image tomorrow, we could have a gallery full of those unattractive content advisory thumbs... yikes ;o))

But I fully understand the thumbnail policy and I wouldn't think of questioning it...

OK. Thanks. I don't understand it, but then again, (sorry) I just don't care enough to do any research as I'm not into taking pics of humans,  and N or V are not my norm to like or dislike a pic. 
Back to Bibble and CS2 for my next pic of Armorica.

Apparently pasties and strings of some sort pass the thumbnail rules...but, I never see pasties in poser stuff or photos unless the shot is from an "exotic dance" club. LOL

Take a look at the "front page", the page non-members see when they first discover Renderosity.  Now, the ads are not so "graphic" as Ger's examples. However, when a lady I recently invited to visit came here, she said in a soo-so joking manner, something about it being where "men make those fantastic unrealistic things out of women".    I explained to her those are ads for clothing, models, etc. for CG images.  She was not offended but her first reaction bothered me.  

Renderosity is much, much more than "pumped up women", t & a and all that.  All in all, the front page is very informative.  But, can a visitor actually purchase an item from an ad on the front page or must they join the site first?  If they must join first, the more graphic ads could be in the marketplace section perhaps.  First impressions are very important.

Also, quite a digression from the thumnail intent of this thread, perhaps there is room on the front page to have a thumbnail image from selecteted galleries, clickable to the full image.  A once a month selection of the best of  various galleries might just be the ticket to show visitors what we do have!  Terragen(likely misspelled), fine Poser, other 3D stuff and of course photography would make a fine intro to the site to a visitor.   This might draw more in than an add for string clothes for Victor/Victoria.  : )  Just a thought.       Tom.

I know it is free and do appreciate Stacey and the rest for keeping it running well.

my input on what i think would work great for everyone would be (not like it will really matter but ill try ) lol

i think what would be great is to have a nude and violent section of the site where no one will ever see it unless they are of age they wont even see thumbs mixed in with everyday images. in other words if you see thumbs of cats and dogs flowers landscape then oops a nude thumb and then you see cars self portraits then oops another nude advisory sooner or later even the 6 year old is going to click on the forbidden thumb.. but if there was a nude section of the site and violence section of the site not open to public or members to see unless you had a credit card to show your age to get in that section. and im not saying charge for the nude section but anyone of age has a credit card of some sort and you can charge a 1 cent charge just to prove the age. to let them in. then you can post all the skin ads for poser and such you want.. and this way the surface site still looks very pro to all and not look like a T&A site

just an idea I think it would cut down on complaints as well cause anyone using a credit card to show proof of age knows what they are about to see before they even get in there... anyone that uses a credit card to prove age and then comes back out and complains has a serious problem and loves drama lol

but right now with all these nudes mixed in even with kids art and only thing stopping them is a advisory thumb and someone click the nude flag for text. well thats not really going to stop anyone from clicking on it... its human nature its going to happen... then mom will walk in and blow a lid when they see what little johnny just clicked on. and here come the complaints lol

I do understand why the thumbs and advisory is there its to do your best at protecting people from clicking on something they dont want there kids to see or they dont want to see....

but we are all human it also says smoking can cause cancer on the side of a cig pack do you think that would stop a kid from smoking if they were alway in his reach?  we would like to think so :-)

I say set up a credit card to charge one cent or what ever the transaction cost is to process that to show proof of age. then you dont even have to worry about the thumbs anymore...
so thats my idea feel free to print this and burn it lol
sorry about spelling folks lol
Miranda

here's my two cents..

It's takes very little time to create a thumbnail, before "auto-generated" thumbs, we all did it..many sites still require it.

I see 4 options here..

1. Take a few seconds to crop the image to create a thumbnail, that fits the guidelines.
2. use the "Content Advisory" thumbnail
3. create your own "logo" type thumbnail. Ok, this make take a little more time up-front,but it get's used over and over..
4. don't upload nudes, because you can't be bothered.

As part of my duties here, I look at  most of the images here..I see a lot of very artistic nude work being done. The majority of the members have found a way to still show their work and, have found an option that works for them.

If one takes the time to examine the thumbnail rules, it's actually spell out quite clearly.. That's great beacuse there is little to question. 

I would like to say to abe he said This is the only site requiring thumbs for nudity

and abe the only site I have seen that dont make you hide the nude in a thumb is devient art.
and im always in shock from stuff i see there lol makes my stuff look like norman rockwell lol
that site is a bit to far out there for my taste :-)

and out of all the sites I have visited its the only one that dont make you hide the nude in a thumb
every other site i have ever been to is like here or they dont allow nude at all.. so no matter where you go your going to be stuck with the 4 options pushingfaders was kind enough to point out and none of them take more then a few sec to do :-)

I thought Renderosity does automatically create the advisory-icon to pictures, when I select nudity in the upload-form as a content advisory. I've done this, and I saw this icon at my gallery. Now the picture is taken away because of nudity in the thumbnail...??
wouldn't it be a good feature, to get automatically the advisory thumb when a picture is marked as nudity or violence. I thought this is the sense of the advisory select button in the upload form.

lol that happen to me once as well i clicked nude and thought ok it will make one of those advisory things and it didnt and I went oh crap better delete this before I get deleted for good. then I made my own advisory and that got deleted and they came in and told me i need to download a copy of the advisory thumb to use. so i now keep it on my hard drive.. I have learn here (that hard way) lol
its a good idea to read TOS every few days to see if anything has changed so ya dont get tripped up lol
and if I would have done that I would have known to add the stock advisory they created :-)
and saved my self tons of pain lol

thanks for your advice. I was just wondering, because I thought everything is ok, seeing the advisory-icon for this picture on my gallery site. maybe it is not visible in the admin modus for the renderosity-stuff. anyway, next time I will upload it manual.

Images marked with the nudity tag do show an advisory icon for underage members and for non-members. Adult members can see whatever thumb the person uploaded with their image.

yes Kort but the problem is there is still people here that have click to be able to see nude and violence when they signed up.. but if they see a thumb of it they will complain so its a 2nd gaurd for people to upload the thumb provided by RR :-)

You have a point, but the reason for the change was primarly for the complaints of adult members who didn't want to be constantly bombarded by overly endowed nude 3D Vicky's an other less wholesome things. Unfortunately there is no way to differentiate between the classy nudes and more in your face stuff, so it had to be a blanket decision to elminate it all. This way the adult members can choose to go look at the image, but while browsing don't have to see more if they don't want to. And many have said they browse with a child on their lap so...

lol I agree I know the feeling of browising with a child on my lap all to well :-)
and im far from being a prude lol
I have said before I supposrt the advisory thing 100%
and I use to post nudes as well and when using a advisory tag or thumb I found it never hurt the amount of views you got at all. if anything it made it to where you got even more views because people seem to love a surprise lol

Here is a productive suggestion. 

On the upload page, add a check box for "Content Advisory"
automatic thumbnail.

The check box could be near the thumbnail file name or
near the content advisory dropdown selection
... or near both. 

If checked, this would override the thumbnail file name. 

Simple; Easy; No extra work for the artist; Self Documenting feature;
and (best of all) lets the computer (Renderosity's server) do the work.

What do the moderators think? 

--
Martin

p.s. Sorry, but I have no idea how I managed to post this response on
the "The PIcture BELOW ME...." thread instead of here. 

Martin, sometimes you are just too smart for your own good. Great suggestion, I will pass it along. ;']

lol Kort you crack me up lol

It seems that someone claiming to be TwoPynts murmured,

Martin, sometimes you are just too smart for your own good.

Only sometimes ... hrumph ... well, thanks for noticing.  LOL

Martin

I can suggest that..I'm all for giving members options on how to comply with the rules.

Rules??? Rules???? some how I have never understood that word lol

I see that promiselamb was wondering about,

Rules???? somehow I have never understood that word

In the computer industry ... may also apply to PCs (grin), we sometimes say,

"Standards ... it is a good thing there are so many to choose from." LOL

--
Martin

lol MGD I was trying to make light of an inside joke with bruce and I :-) but didnt get a smile out of him lol

I do know about rules all to well and I do my best to try and live within them and sometimes I tend to live life by standing at the line of rules and so tempted to cross over them but I go no no no that wouldnt be cool at all lol

and I find in the art world its very hard to have perfect black and white rules to know the safe line as to not cross it. and for someone like me it makes it hard for me to find that sweet spot where im safe and no one gets hurt. the rules in the art field feel like im trying to stand on a rope tied between 2 buildings and it blows in the wind lol

and thats not something im use to or have managed to grasp.. in the art field you set a solid rule but when you go ok it says I cant do this so ill do this and in my mind im thinking I didnt break a rule. but in art you have so many people looking and get different ideas of what they see
and half would go nope no rule broken and the other half would go yep its a broken rule.
and you can stop and say who is right who is wrong and the answer is no one is right or wrong on their views. im the one wrong thinking I can walk accross a rope that sways in the wind.. and im not use to that kind of thinking being new to art.

in person im use to living on the edge a bit from time to time. but never go over the line. rules are very much black and white.. lol

I am a firm believer if you break a rule an innocent man suffers somewhere. and I never want to have fun at the expence of others. its just not worth it if someone gets hurt in the process :-)