I have been working on my own skin texture and shader which will be included in the Sale but i really need to make the INJ.

If there is a decent application that creates INJ that can be sold i would be willing to buy it.

Thanks

P.S. I would also like your opinion on the morph i have created and whether you would consider buying it!! Thanks

You could sell the pose file you used to create the character, but the marketplace is flooded with those, and even the best creators are seeing little or no sales on some characters.

Since you've already admitted that you used dial spinning to create this, you did not create the morph, but created the character instead.

if you've never sold anything at all before, you need to learn how to create and bundle things properly, and it is HIGHLY advised by everyone that you release some freebie stuff first and learn from your mistakes before attempting to release a product, and going through 10 rejections before you get it right.

it looks like the e-f sydney character, hence I don't think it would sell.

Quote - ..... if you've never sold anything at all before, you need to learn how to create and bundle things properly....

in different words: what would you think about your dentist, if he'd ask you how to get things done? i wish someone would stop (wannabe-)merchants from asking the users how to create the stuff they want to sell to them, i really do... hello, suggestion box!

You only learn by asking.. and every merchant that you love all did the same thing ) myself included) when they started out.

I hav eno issue with people creating quality items and wanting to sell them. My issues are with people doing almost no work at all, and trying to sell that as a "product", in the hopes of having a get rich scheme, which it ain't.

Quote - .....I hav eno issue with people creating quality items and wanting to sell them. My issues are with people doing almost no work at all, and trying to sell that as a "product", in the hopes of having a get rich scheme, which it ain't.

amen, brother! my issue is the markets being flooded with superficial and 'unprofessional' stuff. i am sick and tired of digging my way through the cesspit with the faint hope to find a pearl! so please don't encourage them, says i!

Wus, I think you are being rather harsh and coming across as somewhat insensitive.

I know your comments aren't directed to RetroDevil, but I know if I had made this thread and I read your comments I would be deeply hurt :(

I think the morph looks lovely.  But I agree with Gareee.  Releas  a few freebies so that not only do you learn about packaging, but so that people can check out the quality of what you make.  With more than 2000 vendors in this MP, people are more likely to buy from someone whom they have confidence in and know that they produce quality work.

Freebies are NOT "giving away the farm". They are a valid marketing tool that helps get your name and reputation out there.

So far as packaging up V4 and dials vs whatever I have no clue. I don't do character creation and when I do any spinning of dials it's for my own use only because I only tweak other people's characters to get a more unique look than "out of the box"

I'd suggest listening to Gareee. He gives some very sage advice :)

Who, me? ;)

Spinning dials though is NOT creating morphs.. those morphs already existed, and redistrbuting them even in a bastardized form is the best way to be flayed alive, and burned at the stake in all the various poser websites.

I can spin dials for 2 minutes, and have a character, but what value is that to a customer that can duplicate that exactly in the same time frame?

Great example is Liquid Rust over at Daz.. he just released a character, and the developement time was closer to a month... THAT has a value I would pay for.

In a nutshell, in order for a product to be a PRODUCT and actually be of value to customers, it has to include things they could NOT easily recreate themselves in a short period of time.

Look in the clearance section here, at all the character packs that are about th ebe retired because no one bought them at all. Why waste your time packaging simple junk that people wouldn;t most likely buy anyway?

Instead, the OP should fire up zbrush since he already has it, and create morphs from scratch that others could NOT easily create, and make a bundle of those instead.

And make sure you have a valid up to date licence that allows for commercial application. Some programs also require specific licenses that are different for doing personal non distributed work, or doing commercial work.

Release questionable stuff, and you'll get a bad rep, and no one will even want the time of day from you again, but release some original quality content, and people will be eager and be begging you for your next release.

@ acadia sighs, nods, mumbles something about ripoffs hurting too and turns to leave the scene...

**RetroDevil,

Look over at Daz for InjectionPoseBuilder. It does inj and rem for the Daz characters that you can put in your product package using the dial morphs. They also sell a program that lets you turn custom morphs (as you would get making the character in ZBrush) into inj and rem.**

Garee I think your wrong about the spinning of the dials. There aren't that many characters out there that can't be closely duplicated by using v4 morphs++. You just have to know what your doing with them.  By most of the custom morphs out there they are just reinventing the wheel... 
Some of the same people that pride themselves on creating their own custom morphs then go and use a merchant resource for the skin texture. Doesnt make any sense to me.
Kinda like ordering a whopper and fries with a diet coke.... :-)

Thanks Acadia and Gareee i have taken your comments on board about offering free items first.

I created this Cassandra morph b4 i got Zbrush and I will also be creating morphs with Zbrush but was hoping that i could have distributed  this morph legally.

i wanted to only sell this product when it was the best quality i could offer which means it would be bundled with skin texture and poses etc. and that is why i asked here for advice.

wus: I dont understand why you have a problem with somebody asking a question which would help improve the quality of a product when in your words you are "sick and tired of digging my way through the cesspit with the faint hope to find a pearl!". Surely giving sound advice on how to improve their work would reduce the "cesspit" of poor quality items.

It would have been interesting to see what your idea of quality was by the products you have created or the images you have rendered but i see none here!?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13099

You can sell or give away the morphs you make. It's the mesh itself that can't be redistributed. Injections are not meshes. They're a set amount of numbered dials that let the person who already owns the object make it look the way you set it. That's why there are programs such as InjectionPoseBuilder and InjectionPoseMagic that let you make the morph injections for the object.

If you really want to sell, check out the above link. Lots of help to new vendors. I highly recommend following all the links provided on the page to make sure of everything and get questiosn answered.**

You have a nice face going there. I do have a suggestion though. I know that there is variation in nature and not all faces are in exact proportion. I have dyslexia and my mother knew I struggled to draw things and people and get the proportions right, so she took many faces from magazine pictures and drew lines showing me general artist proportions on the faces. One of these is that generally you can draw a line straight down from the center of the pupils and you will hit the corners of the mouth. Also, generally the width between the eyes, from one lacrimal to the other, is very close to the measurement of one eye from corner to corner. So what I'm saying is that your figure's eyes are too far apart to my eye.  I'm only suggesting. If you are pleased with what you have there, then keep it. She has a nice nose and lips. Her face is pleasing. I do like that your character does not have those 'punched in the mouth' swollen lips that seems to be a popular trait right now in both the real world and in digital characters.

It does take a lot of work to get a figure package together and then up in the store. Read everything Unicornst pointed out to you.  You will need one of those Injection Building program as well as one that creates MAT pose files from your skin texture set up. You also have to do research in the Market Place. Look at how people do their advertising graphics to show off their character package. I'm not telling you not to do it. I'm just letting you know there's quite a bit of work involved in this undertaking.

Thing of it is, you haven't created any morphs yourself at all.. you've just used other people's morphs to change the character's appearance.

Creating Morphs: Actually changing the point distribution by using magnets in poser, or by using a modelling program to change the point data

Creating Characters: Using existing morphs (as you did) and adjusting dial settings to create a character. This is redistributed by simply packaging up the saved pose for the figure, with ONLY the changed dial settings. Note: you need to let customers know that they need any morph packages that were injected or present in the figure you were working on. you cannot redistribute the morphs in any fashion OTHER then in settings to adjust them.

Also bear in mind that when you post a product, you must sign a legal document that says the included content was solely created by you, and you are the sole owner of copyright, and also that any breach of copyright infringement lays solely on your shoulders, and Renderosity cannot be legally held to blame for illegal redistribution.

Time and again people try to release products based off others work, and sooner or later, they ARE found out, and there ends up holy hell to pay, and in some cases, damages and restitution are required.

Also bear in mind, that even for very popular content producers, some products make far LESS then even minimum wage based on their developement time. Power content developers can make some money at this, but less then 10% of ALL content creators actually make a living doing this.. and there are probably about 3000 content creators now, so only about 300 people actually can make a living doing this.

Just to clarify, in case some didn't catch what Gareee is saying (sorry gareee not implying that you didn't communicate clearly...sometimes having something said a 2nd time helps the info to sink in to those that didn't catch it the 1st time), you legally cannot spin a dial and say it's your morph. That dial/morph belongs to someone who created it, therefor you can't use that dial to sell something. You can enjoy the dial, but not profit from it.

I'm not implying that was the original posters intent, but we see this confusion off and on here.

You can use magnets, and sell.
You cannot spin a dial and use magnets to sell though, because again you are jumping off of someone elses hard work (ie; the dial).

The first thing I'd say is learn the difference between V4 and Sydney for one thing. From looking at your character I'm assuming you created the character in Poser's faceroom spinning those dials on Sydney, not Victoria 4's morph dials on Victoria 4. There's less of a problem with redistributing Poser faceroom morphs than DAZ figure morphs created using DAZ morph dials.

Actually I don;t think EF allows morphs based on the faceroom to be redistributed at all.. I know they don;t even allow cr2 redistribution, like daz does.

Actually they do. Here's what the EULA says about redistributing Morphs:

*I. The purpose of defining certain content as Restricted Content is to protect the Company's investment, interests, and ownership of Restricted Content. It is not the Company's policy to unreasonably restrict or inhibit any third party's creative or commercial activities. The following are Legitimate Uses of Restricted Content:

• Creating morph targets based on the Restricted Content provided that any distribution of the morph targets will not include the original mesh connectivity information. This can be in the form of data utilized with morph moving utilities or in a .CR2 file that references the original geometry but does not include the complete mesh.

This applies to morphs created in the faceroom, with magnets or any other external morph creating program. There are no restrictions in the EULA stating that the faceroom dials can't be used in creating morphs. This pretty much negates your comment about CR2's as well. Why else would they even include DEV CR2's with Poser 7 if they weren't meant to be used for creating content for their products? As long as the original "Mesh" obj files aren't included in your work you're fine.

Well, all I can tell you is when I spoke to them abotu doing a product that needed to be in a cr2, I was told a flat out NO.

Well I dunno who you asked but they can't have it both ways. Their own EULA disagrees. I cut and pasted that directly from their website. That's the Poser 6 EULA to be precise. But the Poser 7 EULA says the same thing. I can only assume you wanted to use a CR2 that wasn't a DEV CR2 and may have contained geometry data in it somehow.

I will make this note, their EULA does say you can't redistribute the CR2's included with Poser, but then it says the statement in my previous post about using CR2's to distribute morphs. I would take it that they mean you have to create your morph transfering CR2 by hand. In anycase, nobody really transfer's morphs using CR2's anymore they use Injection Poses made with InjectionPose builder or Injection poses that call Poser PMD files.

not me.. I massage a cr2 and add things to it till it screams for mercy
LOL!

Sorry to step in but you can distribute faces created in the FaceRoom very easily and without any legal problems by creating a .fc2 file with the FR data.

Sometime ago Dead_Reckoning, semidieu and I were playing with this kind of stuff, it is simple and it has many advantages like a .fc2 file is like 200 kb and a head morph is close to 9 Mb in case of Miki for example.

semidieu included this function in Shaderworks a little but powerful application. You can find it here: http://poser.rois-sorciers.com/ShaderWorks/download.html

How exactly do you create a fc2 file with the faceroom data? I've never been able to do any thing with faceroom created morphs that way. Is there a thread that explains the steps to doing this?

Quote - > Quote - .....I hav eno issue with people creating quality items and wanting to sell them. My issues are with people doing almost no work at all, and trying to sell that as a "product", in the hopes of having a get rich scheme, which it ain't.

amen, brother! my issue is the markets being flooded with superficial and 'unprofessional' stuff. i am sick and tired of digging my way through the cesspit with the faint hope to find a pearl! so please don't encourage them, says i!

I resent that!
...what? oh, you were not specifically refering to me? sorry....

Original Poster, I've got maybe 6 things sitting on my hard drive I want to sell here; but there is something a little, or a lot, wrong with each one of them, and the review process at renderosity is really, really, really stringent. I hate to admit it, but this is almost always a good thing.
I managed to get 3 things in the marketplace here in the last 4 years, and 2 of those they really shouldn't have. I strongly suggest you practice, a LOT, with making freestuff before you try for the marketplace. After that, you are going to want to enlist some beta testers (I'm still looking for some) and let them have a crack at it.

wus:

Quote - in different words: what would you think about your dentist, if he'd ask you how to get things done? i wish someone would stop (wannabe-)merchants from asking the users how to create the stuff they want to sell to them, i really do... hello, suggestion box!

That's kind of a shitty sentiment when out of the other side of your mouth you're asking for money (not especially appropriate to this forum).

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2717833

You never asked a question in your life?  You might do the best UVmapping in the world - will I deal with you?  Unlikely!

@MatrixWorkz, we talk about this over the CP forums but I don't remember the link now, will try to find it later. But the process is very simple:
1-load your figure in Poser,
2-go to the FaceRoom
3-play with it until you get something that you like.
4-Save your file as .pz3
5-Open Shaderworks
6-In the little utilities section you will find: Save FaceRoom data
7-Click on it and then look for your file
8-Save it and you are done.

Once you have this little file saved, open Poser, load your figure and then in the face library select this new file and double click on it. Nothing will happen but don't panic.
Go to the FR and once you go in there it will automatically update the face with your saved data, return to the Pose room and your face will be there.

Hope it makes sense.

Ah! Ok, So you have to own ShaderWorks to do this. I wasn't quite sure from your first post. I don't own it so that explains why I've never been able to save faceroom data to a fc2 file from within Poser itself.

Quote - ..... wus: I dont understand why you have a problem with somebody asking a question which would help improve the quality of a product when in your words you are "sick and tired of digging my way through the cesspit with the faint hope to find a pearl!". Surely giving sound advice on how to improve their work would reduce the "cesspit" of poor quality items.....

turns back again and presents a sneer... now get one thing effing straight...i think, one should LEARN how to create things 'before' thinking about selling it. you want to learn? excellent! you have adressed this forum with the very same question in mid-september - and you have been given answers. you did not learn it? hells bells... so what do you expect? the 'create art button' to make a quick buck? oh, my...i'm sooo awfully sorry, hon, to hurt your feelings, but it takes a bit more than 'that' if you want my sympathy and support!

Quote - ..... That's kind of a shitty sentiment when out of the other side of your mouth you're asking for money (not especially appropriate to this forum).....

i offered something i obviously CAN do. and i adressed the mods to move the thread in case they find it inapppropriate. so what....

Quote - @MatrixWorkz, we talk about this over the CP forums but I don't remember the link now, will try to find it later. But the process is very simple:
1-load your figure in Poser,
2-go to the FaceRoom
3-play with it until you get something that you like.
4-Save your file as .pz3
5-Open Shaderworks
6-In the little utilities section you will find: Save FaceRoom data
7-Click on it and then look for your file
8-Save it and you are done.

Once you have this little file saved, open Poser, load your figure and then in the face library select this new file and double click on it. Nothing will happen but don't panic.
Go to the FR and once you go in there it will automatically update the face with your saved data, return to the Pose room and your face will be there.

Hope it makes sense.

Ok, well I downloaded ShaderWorks and tried the steps you list and it doesn't load the face I created. You sure there's not some steps you forgot to list?

I think it's a nice character, and there is certainly a market for characters that are just dial spins, so he could just sell the pose file, the same way others do here in the MP. I don't think he needs to make free stuff. Just make some nice promos and package it up. It's nicer than a lot of the characters I've seen for V4 in the MP. Love esther

Quote - Just to clarify, in case some didn't catch what Gareee is saying (sorry gareee not implying that you didn't communicate clearly...sometimes having something said a 2nd time helps the info to sink in to those that didn't catch it the 1st time), you legally cannot spin a dial and say it's your morph. That dial/morph belongs to someone who created it, therefor you can't use that dial to sell something. You can enjoy the dial, but not profit from it.

I'm not implying that was the original posters intent, but we see this confusion off and on here.

You can use magnets, and sell.
You cannot spin a dial and use magnets to sell though, because again you are jumping off of someone elses hard work (ie; the dial).

So what you are saying, is that someone can't create a character just using  the dials and sell it? Just because they didnt make the dials? .........What about all the people selling poses? those are all just dial turns........ looks like the same damned thing to me  thats still just someone turning dials to get something that "anyone" can get by turning dials.

Sounds like the arguement I hear people trot out against poser .......you didnt  create that picture you just used  content that someone else made........................  same damned thing.

Now if you have a reference from one of the companies making these figures that says specificly that someone can not sell a character that is just dial turns no matter how good or bad, that's a different story but I don't remember ever seeing anything like that anywhere.

Quote - > Quote - Just to clarify, in case some didn't catch what Gareee is saying (sorry gareee not implying that you didn't communicate clearly...sometimes having something said a 2nd time helps the info to sink in to those that didn't catch it the 1st time), you legally cannot spin a dial and say it's your morph. That dial/morph belongs to someone who created it, therefor you can't use that dial to sell something. You can enjoy the dial, but not profit from it.

I'm not implying that was the original posters intent, but we see this confusion off and on here.

You can use magnets, and sell.
You cannot spin a dial and use magnets to sell though, because again you are jumping off of someone elses hard work (ie; the dial).

So what you are saying, is that someone can't create a character just using  the dials and sell it? Just because they didnt make the dials? .........What about all the people selling poses? those are all just dial turns........ looks like the same damned thing to me  thats still just someone turning dials to get something that "anyone" can get by turning dials.

Sounds like the arguement I hear people trot out against poser .......you didnt  create that picture you just used  content that someone else made........................  same damned thing.

Now if you have a reference from one of the companies making these figures that says specificly that someone can not sell a character that is just dial turns no matter how good or bad, that's a different story but I don't remember ever seeing anything like that anywhere.

No, you can sell a dial spin character but you can't spawn a morph from it and sell that.  You'd have to save the pose which created the character.

Oh gosh...I'm soooooo confused!  :blink:
I really thought that's how this process worked, but  now I'm finding out it isn't (???). And the CR2 thing has me baffeled now, Ahhhhck!
Sorry, didn't mean to lead some astray.

Yeah, you can spin the dials, create an "INJ Pose", which isn't a morph...but it IS a Morphed Character. 
As for the post...the original poster stated at least TWICE that they used ZBrush to create te morph, not the dials.  So, why we're on this tangental diatribe, I'll never know. 
But, it looks like, because people can't keep from being rude while sharing their opinions, I now have to watch this thread.  sigh

No he didn't say that. He said he would use zbrush to create a character if he couldn't sell a morphed V4 as a character using the dials "Also i have heard you cant usemorph dials and i have used the morph dials to create the morph" He just wants to know how you sell a character you have created using poser dials. a very fair question and the answer of course is yes, you make an injection file. Love esther

Sorry, my mistake.

Regardless, the opinions of seasoned merchants ARE NOT law.  Characters created from Dialed morphs are perfectly legal.  Frowned upon by some for whatever reason, but not illegal.

Yes, he didn't ask "should I?" he just asked "could I legally etc?"

Can someone explain whats legal and not in regards to CR2's?

You can't redistribute CR2's.  I think that's a "You can't do it at all" thing.  Unless it's your CR2 for Your figure.  I think others get permission to distribute an RTE-Encoded version when they make major revisions (Like Vittorio 2 is RTE Encoded on V4).  But, that's all my knowledge, right there, lol.

So creating a blank CR2 for clothing is good or bad?

Actally Daz DOES allow cr2 redistribution, so long as it does NOT include any morphs from morph products.

EF does NOT however, and I've lobbyed them to allow non product cr2 redistribution, since they have to reference the original obj anyway.

Since I have about 10 cr2 based morph products out there, I should know...

Thanks for clearing that up Gareee, I thought that was the case but wasn't aware of the EF stance.

Just note - others have gotten the complete opposite response to what Gareee seems to have gotten from EF.  Someone (can't remember who) got the reply that you can even use the EF cr2s directly to create new figures, ie figures that may compete with EF's own figures.  The thread on this is in the copyright forum...

(I remember because that response from EF is opposite of DAZ's stance on competing figures, and I was quite surprised by it.  Imagine allowing competing figures?? Creating a good rig takes up to a year of joint parameter tweaking in poser... )

What is a cr2, you might ask.  It is the file that carries primarily the poser rigging information for the model.  It also carries morph info & texture info.  Redistributing a cr2 is primarily redistributing the rig and it will only be relevant or useful to the particular model it was made for, and any models that were made to conform to that original model, because the rig is specific to the location and shape of the model's joints.

The best thing to do is email the developer directly (EF or DAZ, whichever you are interested in) and not bother with secondhand information.  There are too many vague and contradicting statements even just in this thread, though I know people just want to be helpful. :)

And I DID April,  and here is the exact quote from the email from Partner relations:

"You cannot redistribute CR2’s since they are copyrighted."

Period. no allowances, no loopholes, a cut n dry response.

This was in reference to me wanting to do a PLUS expansion for nearme, with head, hand and foot scalng, as well as adding all the various other morph and ERC type things I add in the mix.

NearMe was also bought out by EF, so they are the sole copyright holder.

I pursued this for about 3 weeks and then finally ggave in the towel and gave up.

When I considered doing PLUS expansionas for the G2 people, I also got the exact same response, and that's why you see all my releases based off daz figures.

I even invested the time in a very persuasive LONG email, highlighting that copyright is still protected, since the original product is required, and the original OBJ is also referenced, but that just fell on deaf ears.

That response BTW is from about a week and a half ago, so it's not "old news".

Ah, then it's good to note that they may have changed their stance recently...just wish they'd let folk know.

I'm not arguing with you, Gareee, I just think whoever needs to get an answer should ask their  question themself directly of DAZ or EF.  (JenX's forum sig is curiously relevant
"...it is not enough these days to simply QUESTION AUTHORITY.
You have to speak with it, too. - Taylor Mali)
lol

BTW, for anyone still reading... cr2 redistribution has nothing to do with the original post.  To save a V4 "character" made up of dial settings, simply save a face or full body pose and tell poser to include morphs.  That fc2 or pz2 will contain the dial values and can be used by others owning V4 base, complete or morphs++ depending on which dials were used.  You only need injection poses if you have also used Muscle Morphs or Creature Morphs.  The others are preloaded.

thanks april, you have offered some good advice and clearly explained how to save a V4 "character" created with dials.
I will also get in contact with DAZ once i have finished packaging my character to make sure i have done it correctly.

Some people here have obviously taken some sort of offence at me asking for help and kind of diverted from answering my question so id like to thank the people that just gave me a straight answer rather than wasting time arguing.

Wasn't even considering that April.. I was just presenting the contact reply from EF directly.. obviously it does NOT agree with thier Eula, but I went right to the top with the inquiry, and got a kind of "gray shade" agreement with me.

Rather then risk doing it, releasing it and then having to pull it, or dick around with rtencoding or such, I just abandoned the project instead, for something I wouldn't have to mess around with.

It's not worth my time or energy to haggle with someone over copyright disputes, when there are SO many projects I can complete instead.

After seeing Capsce's new V4 morph set, I am itching to do another PLUS for some figure.. I do miss tinking with a mesh, to see how much I can accomplish with it that the original creator couldn't.

RetroDevil,
I'm sorry if I helped derail the train, that wasn't my intention.
I'll always try to help when I can.

Regards