http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5310
"The Layered Image Editor allows you to create, open, edit, and save DAZ Studio Layered Image sets (*.dsi). "

Why roll out a proprietary file format?  Why not use PSD?  Friggin BLENDER uses PSD files!
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/File_format_list#Image_Formats

StuuuuUUUUUuUuuUUUUuuUUUUUuuuuuUUUuUuUuUUUpid.  :blink:

*Why roll out a proprietary file format?

the answer is in the question.
it seems, there are 2 versions of the LIE. One can create these files. this is for sale and the product you linked.
the other will be in DS 2.0 for free. this will only read the files produced by the full LIE plugin.

there's your answer....*

Maybe Adobe has a monopoly on the .psd extension so Daz can't use it for their program?  But then again if that were the case then technically we wouldn't be able to save our renders in .psd format.

Or Daz could be doing what 3D Max has  done. They want a unique extension that works exclusively in their program only?

Those are my 2 guesses.

To sell a $20 plugin that many people won't even buy, they completely write off Photoshop compatibility?
:blink:

Quote - Maybe Adobe has a monopoly on the .psd extension so Daz can't use it for their program? 

No, PSD is an open format, many freeware apps read and write PSD (e.g. Gimp)

Yeah, sounds pretty silly.

If you can't use their extension in Photoshop, what graphic program would you need to use in order to compress their file into the others that they list?

lets examine a LIE file and see....

Yes, it sounds like a bad move. Perhaps DSI is just a known format, saved with a diffrent file extansion, one can always hope.

If they'd been smart, they would have used PSD format and still sold their plugin able to read and write the most common layered image format in the world, rather than cripple DAZ|Studio even further.  "It's almost as good as Poser after you spend $300 on plugins for it!"

Give 'em a chance folks.  It's right out of the gate with plenty of room for improvements! 

hey equal oppertunites old chap... ppl rag on EF for the slightest thing, why not Daz?

Well I just clicked on the link in my e-mail and it says this item has been removed!!!! 

Quote - hey equal oppertunites old chap... ppl rag on EF for the slightest thing, why not Daz?

Rag away then! 

It's unusable in Poser, maybe that's the real reason for it?

Quote - Give 'em a chance folks.  It's right out of the gate with plenty of room for improvements! 

First improvement would be "USE PSD FILE FORMAT YOU FOOLS", but evidently it's a planned feature rather than any oversight.

I think this is more like a MAT pose than any real file type. It isn't saving a file out for editing in photoshop. It is just saving a special MAT file. At least, as how I understand it.

I'm almost positive Ghost is right, it's really designed to create special MAT-type files. Those who have Photoshop or GIMP could create the same layered texture in those programs; we use Layered Image Editor when we want to apply a tattoo to a texture (for example) without creating a gigantic additional image file. It's a good way to provide lots of texture options without having to include lots of extra full-sized texture maps.

Both this and the previous render-catching plugin are primarily aimed at new 3D artists who might not have Photoshop or other programs and just need basic image editing functions. Although they might not be useful for everyone, some of their functions (like the image comparison wipe, which Poser 7 also has) can certainly come in handy.

SnowS

Quote - Well I just clicked on the link in my e-mail and it says this item has been removed!!!! 

it's still there:

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5310

I agree with Ghostofmacbeth, they should called it with different name..you can do that in a simple way in poser Mat room.. this make not a sense to create a new image file here, as you see on the example the  layers have different surface setting what mean that are just nothing else as masket texture Mat files... I am just working on set like that with different materials on the same surface and texture maps using alpha channels for all different materials.. not big thing but well somebody set it in a more compact thing.. for quick usage**
**

Quote - I agree with Ghostofmacbeth, they should called it with different name..you can do that in a simple way in poser Mat room.. this make not a sense to create a new image file here, as you see on the example the  layers have different surface setting what mean that are just nothing else as masket texture Mat files... I am just working on set like that with different materials on the same surface and texture maps using alpha channels for all different materials.. not big thing but well somebody set it in a more compact thing.. for quick usage**
**

Sure, you can do that in POSER, this is for Daz Studio and there are several of us that do not use Poser.

Hey kimber89 we are in poser forum so we talk about poser too  ;)
I don't see where is the point of your reply.. regarding to my QUOTE..
we just try to find out what's new and how ..that's all.. or you sense an attack on Daz Studio users? lol ...**
**

Quote - Hey kimber89 we are in poser forum so we talk about poser too  ;)
I don't see where is the point of your reply.. regarding to my QUOTE..
we just try to find out what's new and how ..that's all.. or you sense an attack on Daz Studio users? lol ...**
**

LOL, we're in the Poser forum but talking about a DS add-on that's not for Poser.

Reason I quoted was because that's what this add-on is trying to simulate, the ability to use alpha maps (pngs whatever) on any texture map without adding more texture maps.
You can do that on Poser but not DS until this add-on hopefully.
I have alot of png/psds of make-ups, second skins, etc, etc, that I would have to open in CS, PSP, or Gimp to overlay onto maps & save the maps (adding who know's how many texture maps if one wanted to use the same make-up/second skins on other character textures) to use in DS.
Now, if I think this add-on does what I think it does, I haven't had time to really get into it yet, then I can set up .dsi poses with these pngs to use on any texture map without a bunch of extra texture maps taking up space. That's if it works that way.

No, I'm not sensing a "Studio user" attack, just the fact that you mentioned what you could do in Poser doesn't apply to Studio users as they can't take advantage of those Poser alpha, shader nodes.

Ok no problem I do not use DS so I can't tell more about but well anyway it will help the DS users as well..from what you said :) thanks for lighting me up! lol

This plugin primarily gives Studio users the same functionality  as in Poser Material Room when applying a png or tiff on a transparent background as an overlay.  It can be useful for applying makeup options, tattoos and other overlay kinda stuff.  The  "proprietary" file format simply allows merchants and free content providers that want to make use of these new options as a way to cut down on file pack size.  Studio users have always wanted a solid solution to what can be done in the Material Room and slowly we are getting there.  I'm hoping that in a future version of Studio it will eventually become integrated so that we don't have to plug this, that and the other. 

I know a response to my last sentance will be something like "then use Poser".  I don't use Poser because I don't care for the interface nor the archaic way it's set up to select body parts and materials.  Choosing one or all is not always what's needed.  Studio allows me to choose as many body parts or surfaces using the Ctrl or Shift key.  The interface allows me to turn off areas of Studio I don't use!   This is preferable to my work flow needs!  I'm also simply  used to using Studio.  I have them all.  Vue 6, Carrara 6, Poser 7 and Studio 1.8.  I always end up back in Studio!   It's not a slight on any of the other fine and fabulous programs out there in the least!!

All the best

Richard ;-)~

*I know a response to my last sentance will be something like "then use Poser".

not from me. my reply is, don't cripple yourself using something that limited. use Gimp or Photoshop to go beyond a simple 'blend' and make it pop...

Err, folks?

most file formats can be read without the app-writer paying royalties... now writing to full *.psd format may (or may not) require payment and license fees paid to Adobe. Not to mention the SDK and/or the full .psd file specs is likely to cost some bank.

Same reason Microsoft got choked with a multi-million-dollar (nearly a billion IIRC) fine for not paying royalties to Lucent over the .mp3 format.

Food for thought...

/P

true, but Gimp has PSD support.. who's paying for that?

The Photoshop SDK is publicly available, you just need to register for it.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/photoshop/sdk/

The ability to take Layer X of a given layered image file and plug it into Channel Y of a material is something that could have been done with PSD - Cinema 4D does this.  Looking at the feature list I do not see anything that could not have been done with PSD files.  Using alpha maps for masking, blend modes, all that stuff is already available via PSD format.

Um, did anyone happen to read what GhostofMacbeth and I said earlier? It's not meant to be a replacement for Photoshop or GIMP, it's meant to be a free alternative for those who either don't have a big photoeditor or who don't want to create gigantic additional textures when you just want to add a tiny tattoo or makeup. It's a DAZ format layered MAT-maker, that's all.

SnowS

The key question would be, is it possible to create a tiny tattoo or makeup using a PSD layer without creating a gigantic texture in programs that support the PSDs?

Snowsultan I understand what you said fine - and I know what the utility does.  clearly though DAZ made a choice:

• Use a public, very widely supported layered image format that is strongly documented with many examples of code (easy option)
• Use a proprietary layered image format that no other apps will bother to support, excluding the people who DO own Photoshop or use Gimp (which is free), and requiring them to pay $20 in order to leverage layered materials

The 2nd option cost them more time/money to develop, I can assure you.  I'm not saying their utility is a bad idea - it's got some very useful features - I'm saying there's no smart reason they would use a proprietary file format when PSD is common, public, and easy to exchange with other apps. 

It is NOT an image format. Not an image format. It is a node setup like in poser. That is all.

Quote - It is NOT an image format. Not an image format. It is a node setup like in poser. That is all.

you can show us a file? I'd be interested to see.... (no where in the daz bumf selling it did they say it's not an image file you see.... but it's easy to think it is since it's dealing with blending images)

Here is a link to a picture I found. It shows the setup and how it is like a mat pose within DAZ Studio rather than a new image format. It simply uses blending and alpha channels like a MAT pose but it isn't as node looking.

http://forum.daz3d.com/postimages/origimage_5_1009601.jpg

Quote - Here is a link to a picture I found. It shows the setup and how it is like a mat pose within DAZ Studio rather than a new image format. It simply uses blending and alpha channels like a MAT pose but it isn't as node looking.

http://forum.daz3d.com/postimages/origimage_5_1009601.jpg

no sorry.. I don't see how thats not an image file.. thats just the interface for the program in question. I know me rejecting your answer will probably annoy you.. but it's not what I asked for :(
you've shown me the controls.. not the file format the result is stored in. are the images stored in file like a PSD? is the LIe file just pointers to the files used and you have to maintain your images on disk in the same places as they were when you created it? etc.. thanks for showing that image tho.

No problem ... I don't have it loaded yet since I am on a Mac and the update messes up the rendering so I am waiting. You just want the text (which is what I figured but I thought I would toss this out there since I saw it, not annoyed) and I am not sure if it is real editable since I don't have it installed.

Stupid to defend it I know but it is my understanding that it is a MAT pose type thing and it creates no new image. It just references the original but someone with some first hand experience would be better to show it.

Ok how the program works is that you need at least 2 image files already

1. Your base texture . I.e . a torso skin texture
   2  A tattoo you wish to add  saved in .png format

you then use L.I.E to place the tattoo in the position you wish on the torso texture

you then save the file  which is just a txt  file (if tyou right click and select open you can veiw it in a text editor) like a mat pose  and is about 4KB in size 

all it does is set a path to the two texture(or more)  used and position etc.

it Does Not create a new image file this is why there is no need for it to have any image format

What is handy about it is I can create an add on for another merchants texture pack  i.e adding tattoo's to the skin without needed to add the original textures in the pack  I just need to add the .dsi file and my .png files and some DS pose files to apply the .dsi.

Below is the text in a sample .dsi file I made

 
 
 
   /Runtime/textures/ARTCollaborations/Morgaine/2_MorgaineT.jpg
   yes
   2_MorgaineT
  
   
  
  
   
   
   
   
   
   
  
 
 
   C:/Documents and Settings/Neil/Desktop/testing2.tif
   yes
   testing2
  
   
  
  
   
   
   
   
   
   
  
 
 

Thanks NeilV

aah thank you.
hmm interesting... you could in theory write your own in Notepad....

Thanks NeilV,

This doesn't do what I hoped, to be able to apply pngs to maps as a pose file....like using a single png tattoo pose that can applied to any texture map. I would have to use the L.I.E. to apply the same tattoo to several maps and save a .dsi for each map instead of one single .dsi.

While worth it alone to me for the greatly reduced file sizes, compare a 1 MB map to a 1 KB .dsi instead of another 1 MB map, I don't see merchants (whom use Studio) embracing this add-on as it's more work to make DS compatable mats for a product. It would be easier for them to supply tattoos/second skins/makeups on texture maps or just the pngs themselves.

I think it is good because many times people ask if this or that would work DAZ Studio and it has always been "Not really" because things use a second map in Poser but now it might be more likely to be "Maybe." At least to some extent. Things like transpancy options for eyebrows or body hair or makeup were always a no-go before in DS but now they might be possible.

plus it should be possible to write a Mat <> DSI convertor since both are text based files...