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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 27 5:12 pm)
Subject: MFD as Conforming/Dynamic clothing?
Urbanarmitage, you might want to PM trav and ask him. However to me it looks like he might have used Wardrobe Wizard to fit the dress to V2 prior to clothifying the hip of the dress. I know when I use Wardrobe Wizard to fit clothing.....it fits it snuggly and sometimes I end up with that effect.
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?Who=trav
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Urbanarmitage, sorry I haven;t popped in here for quite a while, luckily someone sent me an email to stop by...
Sorry to have to disappoint you about the bodice and mipples in the dress above but they aren;t dynamic at all! That's one of the things I LOVE about the hybrid clothing from just below the corsette (a seperate figure) down the dress is dynamic and about to "flow" with the figure. From the same point up, it's totally conforming allowing me to model in as much detail as I want ahd have it stay in place. The effect of having it billow out around the corsette and the definition on the breasts are all hard modeled into the dress figure.
Honestly I don;t think this kind of detail CAN be made into a totally dynamic dress, but I could be wrong... SVDL has taken fully dynamic clothing to a realism level I can;t come close to duplicating other than to model them in on my wn.
mike
Thanks for the advice and comments all. I'll try playing around with the Collision Offset and Collision Depth again but I wasn't able to get too close to the desired effect like that last time. I'm still very much a Poser noob though so I may get lucky. ;)
Mike, that makes a lot more sense now! The way the cloth up top seemed figure-hugging in places made me assume that it was dynamic. I downloaded SVDL's hybrid a little while ago so i'll try that and see how it pans out. His work really is awesome. Thanks for getting back to me!
UA
I've has success with the MFD but I don't cloify the hip, I cloify the skirt group. Another thing I found with some sims where the long dress or skirt is being pulled below the gound is to check the ground in the collisions. It's another one of those things that sometimes it helps and sometimes it makes no difference.
could the cloth room be used to create a piece of dynamic cloth that is held in the hads of the figure and not worn! for instance holding a towel or a bed sheet!?
hope you can help thanks!!
I think I responded to this thread once before but I wanted t mention something that might help.
I can only speak for the original V3 Morphing Fantasy Dress, because I made it, and I am not sure how derivatives changed or were altered as later versions were released.
But the original MFD was created in the Poser cloth room as were all the morphs.
However, smoothing and crinkling were an issue. After I made the morphs I went into light wave and smoothed the crinkles.
Point being, you can use the timeline to blend two different simulations(as morphs) together to get a smoother version. You will loose a bit of heavy draping but not so much in the end.
You can use the blended simulations for your final render.
-Anton, creator of Apollo Maximus
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the
face of truth is concealment."
Quote - could the cloth room be used to create a piece of dynamic cloth that is held in the hads of the figure and not worn! for instance holding a towel or a bed sheet!?
hope you can help thanks!!
Yes, the cloth room can be used for such things.
Hey! His nose is dry! ... Someone should lick it, just in case. - Diego
Quote - Wewt!
Tried this out and dayum!
It works!
It's great isn't it? And it's not limited to just the MFD! You can see the result of my having done this with one of the Flamenco skirts. I use it for all kinds of dresses and skirts and it works great! Sometimes you have to edit a constrained group in the material room to pin the hip to the figure so the dress/skirt doesn't slide down, but once you have done that, it works great! No more excuses for stiff looking posed skirts, hehe
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I see most things have been covered pretty well, except for cloth room settings, I've posted this info many times, but this fast moving forum loses good threads quickly.
Bend Resistance : this is the amount of force required to change the rotation of a single polygon along one of its edges. Entering 0 gives no resistance, meaning any single polygon can rotate along any of its edges freely. Generally a bad idea setting this to 0, flowing cloth goes haywire! (imagine scrunching up fabric in your hand. that silk shirt will scrunch up easily, leather would be nearly impossible to scrunch up)
Suggested Settings :
3-15 : Good for thin loose fabrics, such as silk and cotton.
30-100 : Thick fabrics, such as wool
150-300 : Very thick fabrics, Leather is a good example, although leather should really have a higher setting, much higher than this and things start to move like there under water.
Stretch Resistance : The amount one or more vertice can move away from another vertice of the same polygon. (imagine holding opposite ends of a piece of fabric, and pulling away. a cotton shirt would stretch a little, silk would not)
*Suggested Settings :*10-25 : Lightly woven fabrics, such as cotton
50-100 : Average fabrics, wool, silk, cotton, etc
200+ : Hard fabrics, leather etc.
Shear Resistance : The amount one or more vertice can move on a single axis away from another vertice of the same polygon. (imaging grabbing a piece of fabric in both hands, with your hands touching. then moving one hand up, and the other down. this movement is shearing)
Suggested Settings :
<50 : Extremely lightly woven fabrics, such as cotton or loose wool.
50-100 : most fabrics, cotton, silk, wool.
200+ : Hard/Thick fabrics, such as leather.
Cloth Density : The amount of weight applied to an individual polygon. (pick up a TINY piece of fabric, the wieght of that tiny peice is like this setting)
Suggested Settings :
0.0001 : Light, thin fabrics, silk, loose-weave cotton
0.001 : Average fabrics, cotton, wool (medium weave)
0.005 : Thick fabrics, cotton (double weave) wool
0.01 : Very thick or very heavy fabrics, such as leather
Other settings, such as friction etc I generally dont touch. unless Im looking for a certain type of movement from the cloth. so I wont touch those. the default settings are generally enough.
Some Things to Remember.
Cloth Density directly effects how each of the other settings work. increasing the density may require you to change the shear or strength resistance. I highly suggest setting cloth density first (guage your setting by the speed that the fabric falls. After getting a decent density, then start working on the other settings.
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT :
All cloth room settings are directly effected by the complexity of the model.
This is mainly due to Cloth Density being a per-polygon setting. if you double the amount of polygons, you are effectivly doubling the wieght. the settings I have put here work well with most feely available cloths. such as SVDL dynamic cloth. SVDL did an excellent job of getting enough complexity to look good, without being so complex that calculations take an unreasonable amount of time. This can become a problem with turning conforming to dynamic. some conforming clothes are just too complicated for the cloth room to handle.
A few Dynamic Tips :
If you have poses that you want to use where the arm is folded, or the knees are bent, and your fabric is getting caught in the joint. use a low-res sphere from Props->primitives.
switch to the first frame.
parent it to the joint in question, position it so that it sits roughly at the centre of the joint. set the scale to 0.
head to your frame that has the final pose in it. use transform and scale (on individual axis) to "fill" up the joint so there is no space for the fabric to fit in.
Open up the Keyframe editor, select all the keyframes for the low-res sphere, and switch it to linear movement (click the orange color thing in the top right) the keyframes will go from green to orange. (this means the dial changes you make are kept exactly as you set them)
Now, move between the first and final frame watching your joint and adjust the scale and tranform accordingly.
what you want is the sphere to increase in size and shape (and position if needed) to always fill the joint so that the fabric cannot get caught there.
Another tip :
use low-res spheres for head, hand and feet collision. this will stop fabrics getting caught between the fingers/toes and greatly speed up calculation time. as the low-res shere has about 5% of the polygons that V4's hand does!
I have worked EXTENSIVELY with both dynamic rooms (see my gallery, theres ALOT of dynamics in there) so feel free to ask any questions about any aspect. I will try my best to help.
TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units
wow thanks - great tips!!!!
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
A much less painful way to do this would be to conform the MFD to your figure, use all the morph dials you want, then export the MFD as an obj. When you reimport it, all the morphs will be intact, and you can now clothify it. You may then want to open the Edit Choreographed Group or Edit Constrained Group and add a few anchor points between the shoulders (where no one will see them), which will keep the torso portion of the newly dynamic cloth in place through even the most violent contortions.
Ok, I'm coming to the discussion late, I realize that, but it's been a fascinating tutorial. Jim, I was wondering about that negligee from the beginning of this thread. Is that available somewhere? I love it and would like to pick it up if it's available.
My thanks to all the Poser Scholars who participate in the Forum. Without you, we would be truly clueless.
Quote - Ok, I'm coming to the discussion late, I realize that, but it's been a fascinating tutorial. Jim, I was wondering about that negligee from the beginning of this thread. Is that available somewhere? I love it and would like to pick it up if it's available.
My thanks to all the Poser Scholars who participate in the Forum. Without you, we would be truly clueless.
I believe it's at Daz3D
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
wardrobe wizzard 2 can turn conforming clothing into a prop which can then be made dynamic in the cloth room. Love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Quote - wardrobe wizzard 2 can turn conforming clothing into a prop which can then be made dynamic in the cloth room.
apparently, so can PhilC's free ClothingRoomHelper utility, a link to which can be found on page 4 of this thread. I just downloaded it, and reading the "read me" file makes me say what I just said. Can't wait to try it, I'm already a big fan of Wardrobe Wizard in particular and PhilC in general :)
well, I can report that PhilC's clothing room helper seems to work fine on v3MFD, but on Gown for Maddie3, it just draped (with active progress bar) for 19 hours before I finally used task manager to terminate Poser 6.
One thing I didn't expect to happen (when applying CRH python buttons) was a popupwindowmessage that prompted me to change my end frame to 1 (iow, delete 29 frames from my default 30)...so I did.
The reasons I let it go to see if it would finish must be obvious to the strong user :)
That I will be looking into this more is also obvious, heh.
Today I will be trying the CRHelper on MFD expansion after I use WWizard, to go from V3 to Maddie3.
Any insights would be enormously appreciated.
BTW I paid some attention to being sure the Gown was "big enuf", so that shouldn't have been the cause of the failure.
Also, am running P6, 2 gig ram 3ghz heart on XP, so... >19 hours seems a tad unreasonable.
whenever i have that kind of performance problem with clothes, there's an intersection in the beginning. you might try tweaking figure scale or weight in the beginning frame, looking at your step offset values, and making sure your cloth settings are OK. that said, i've never had it delete all my frames, so i'm definitely not familiar with everything that's happening.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Apparently the problem has to do with the fact that I had used Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 to convert the dress to fit the morphed V4.1 figure, before running it through the cloth room to clothify the hip. I followed Phil's video for full body morphs, but some more steps must be needed or something.
I just did it again, but this time I used Wardrobe Wizard 1 to convert the dress, and toggled the spherical fall off zones for the hip in order to keep the morphs and body handles (just in case I needed them). After doing that I ran it through the cloth room and the skirt moved properly.
Anyway, I'm glad that the skirt can be clothified! I love the MFD even more since I learned that it can be :)
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
It looks as though the WW2 conversion process has added actors to make the hip conform to leg movements, which you don't want to happen if it's going to be clothified (because the conforming and the dynamic elements will add on to each other). I'm not familiar enough with WW2 to know if there's an option to stop that happening, but there may well be one. You got it figured out in any case, but if anyone else is interested it's worth asking in PhilC's WW forum. He may not see this thread. Those who are comfortable with hacking CR2s can always remove the leg conformers afterwards, of course.
Thanks. I did go and post on Phil's forum and asked if there were other steps needed to work with that dress.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Okay ... proof positive that ignorance is bliss. I did this once. Just took the "skirtbase" and clothified it and it worked perfect. But since ... I deleted the poser file I'd created because I had re-organized my folders. Now ... I tried to go back ... (P6, no help from our dear PhilC, who has wonderful stuff by the way) and the sim fails at frame 0. :( I'm lost. Only because it worked perfect the first time I did this scene. I'm confused, believe me. I wanted to show it in this thread.
Boni
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
I asked PhilC about this and he looked at the .cr2 file and saw that I had used "Normal Clothing" when doing the conversion. He said that even though it is a dress, to use "Skirt", so I did, and now it works fine. Apparently it has something to do with how the leg joints are set up for normal clothing vs skirts and dresses.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Still loving this feature!!
PS: Covering up my blunder of pressing some wrong keys and having posted in the wrong thread instead of the one intended :)
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Quote -
I upgraded to Poser 6 in December just so I could do this!!! Had it not been for this thread and the fact that the MFD can be used in the Poser 6 cloth room, but not the Poser 5 one, I wouldn't have upgraded.
Here are 3 results using the MFD in the P6 cloth room. I'm thrilled that my favourite dress has so much more versatility and can actually look natural. I've never been able to get results like these until I took the dress into the cloth room.
Message edited on: 02/05/2006 17:06
You have them sitting on chairs. That's fantastic work!
I haven't been able to manage it.
Cheers
♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff
Start with the chair positioned well away from the figure at frame 1 of your cloth simulation animation, then bring it into the correct position as the figure sits down - that gives the cloth time to react properly. Don't bring it too close to the figure during the simulation or you may risk stalling it. You can adjust the chair slightly before rendering.
And also remember to include the chair in the "collide against" list of course.
Quote - Start with the chair positioned well away from the figure at frame 1 of your cloth simulation animation, then bring it into the correct position as the figure sits down - that gives the cloth time to react properly. Don't bring it too close to the figure during the simulation or you may risk stalling it. You can adjust the chair slightly before rendering.
And also remember to include the chair in the "collide against" list of course.
Thanks.
Actually, my goal is to clothify the Valiant Tabard for James 6 and have him sitting on a horse. same concept I'm hoping.
♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff
Quote -
Actually, my goal is to clothify the Valiant Tabard for James 6 and have him sitting on a horse. same concept I'm hoping.
I would think so. But that's way too advanced for me, so I can't help you there. But others who are more advanced in the cloth room and with animation will be able to. I strictly do basic cloth room stuff, lol
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
anyone managed to turn MFD sleeves dynamic? I'm trying to do an elf portrait and that flowy sleeves would look nice, but I'm also having a hard time with it... any ideas?
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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!
The MFD's skirt works so well as dynamic cloth because it's all one body part, and because it has no conforming actors associated with it. The same does not apply to the sleeves, unfortunately. If you're willing to do some remodelling and CR2 hacking it should be possible - but (at least without a lot of work) you'd lose the morphability of the sleeves. It may be simpler to make the whole dress into dynamic cloth.
Edited to add: is an elf portrait anything like a self portrait? :lol:
Thanks for the enlightment, EnglishBob, I'm actually planning on using the sleeves as divided objs, exported and re-imported as obj only format. it's actually going very well if I may say, but It is kinda complicated doing it...
no, its an elf portrait, spelled like that, like the lovely one from the The Lord of the Rings and a hole lore of fantasy characters...
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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!
I'm trying to follow along in this, since I have a scene where I need the skirt of the MFD to clothify in order to look right.
I know in another tutorial, it said something about exporting conforming clothing as a wavefront obj and then bringing it back, do you not have to do that with the MFD? Seems my calculation wants to run forever and I only have 30 frames. I was labeling hip and all the skirt parts in the field to clothify.
No need to export as an .obj file, since you aren't making the whole mesh dynamic.
At Frame 1 of the simulation, make sure that there is nothing poking through the mesh of the dress, that's one of the leading causes of problems with the cloth room.
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If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.
the project was going fine, but something that irritates me most is that mesh selection tool from Poser... that's just TERRIBLE! I wished to select the upper part of the sleeves only, to change the dynamic group into contrained, to avoid the sleeves to 'fall down' on the model, but that hedious selecting tool doesn't let me! it justs select some of the polygons form the back side and then nothing else!
Any tips for the selection tool to make it work in a decent way?
thanks guys!
ps: I know I can use the material selection, but in MFD the sleeves have the same material zone all over, and all I wish to select is the first two or three sets of polygons in the shoulders... very specific, I know... killing my brains... XD~
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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!
What version of Poser and what OS are you using. I am on a Mac and in the early versions of P8, I had to change to Sreed from OpenGL and then it worked as expected. Then you just changed back. Right click on the view port brings up the options to do this. Curious if this helps.
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
Cobaltdream: any ideas? I also use ZBrush (sometimes...) think I can creat a new group selection in it and them export this obj to poser with the right group? I'm kinda noob in real modeling, so I guess I could use some help ^^'...
Gritcher: I'm on a PC and Poser8, I already use OpenGL. Nothing changed.
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Greetings from Brazil! Looking for compatriots who also love creating in Poser!
i've never used Zbrush and don't have it (yet!) so i can't really advise on that. i use Blender, and i know i can use it to make and export new polygroups. i'd personally do it as a new material, and that way i know it wouldn't mess up the rigging. so if i were you, i'd probably:
- import the original object into Zbrush
- select the new areas, make a new material zone,
- export the new object
- edit the cr2 with Cr2Editor to point at the new object (simpler than it sounds)
- save the new cr2 as a copy
- load the new version of the dress
- add the new material to the constrained group in the Cloth room
you don't even need to do the cr2 part if you're making the whole dress dynamic rather than a dynamic/conforming hybrid.
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Ok, this question is a bit contentious but here goes.
Can anyone please tell me how the cloth simulation was set up to give the definition of the nipples and breasts as seen below? I have a render that I have been working on for a while and this is the effect that I was after with the dynamics but all I get is a very slight raise in the fabric around the nipples or breakthrough, nothing like the definition shown in the image quoted below.
Any help appreciated.
UA