I'll look for some more in the morning, I'm about to fall asleep at the moment.

But you don't mean to use in Bryce, or do you?

@ FranOnTheEdge
I do use Bryce to render w/ from time to time. The principle is the same in any renderer (Bryce terrains are planar sub-d displacement). The same images would even work, just need to be applied differently in different applications.

@ conniekat8
What did you make that with?
I think I need to make my own, because I need to make quite a few different ones and was wondering what anybody uses to make that sort of thing. I'll probaly need to make them in the future as well.
"Give a man a fish" vs. "Teach a man to fish" :)

A way to make a fairly complex pattern repeat is to create the small complex bit first, then to paste that into a layer - & in order to change the orientation of each segment, I keep the original small pattern open (in whatever image prog you are using)
create a big new one,
paste the first copy into one corner
rotate the original,
copy the image again,
paste into new layer in biggy (it arrives in the new orientation) and poisition carefully to line up with layer 1,
rotate small pattern again,
copy,
paste into new layer,
repeat over and over again, until you have the big image you want.

You can use this to create mosaic type images - adding borders and different combinations inbetween here and there.

Like you could use a celtic knott duplicated 4 times in one corner - then copy that and duplicate it in the other 3 corners, and enclose with a border, plus use another pattern - dunno, checks maybe? to fill in the centre of the image, again separating with borders etc and end up with a roman mosaic.

But you've probably done that before anyway....

I've used that sort of operation for a few things, including lately to create a caustic pattern.

I was hoping a lazy man's solution...:lol:

they even fit, so you can use the outline in one colour and the filled variety in an other.
it's called 'celtic knot'

Quote -
What did you make that with? :)

I use Filter Forge and Genetica for textures.

http://www.filterforge.com/
http://www.spiralgraphics.biz/

And you may be interested in this utility:  http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

That's very cool Conniekat8.
I looked at the links for those two programs. Unfortunately having to unexpectedly buy the new system pretty much spent my discretionary 3d budget; at least until spring when business picks back up...probably summer, actually.
I think I might like to look into Filter Forge then.
Which one of the two do you like better?

It's hard to tell which I like better. They both have their pluses and minuses. If i had to pick one, I really don't know which one I'd choose :(

Go with the Filter Forge demo, it's a fully finctional version, good for 30 days. You can render yourself out a lot of images in that time. Demo also lets you change or make new filters.

Genetica also has free renderer, where you can render a filter that someone else made, if I remember right. 

In either software, if you see any filters that you may want changed and tweaked, let me know, I can try and do it. I do realize that's not quite the same as having it in front of you, but a half way substitute... Just thought I'd throw that out and let you know you have that option :)

I guess it couldn't hurt to do a trial; but I'll wait until I have a bunch of stuff ready to be textured ;)

Quote - I guess it couldn't hurt to do a trial; but I'll wait until I have a bunch of stuff ready to be textured ;)

Ah, yes, that's a good idea :)

Quote - > Quote -

What did you make that with? :)

 

I use Filter Forge and Genetica for textures.

http://www.filterforge.com/
http://www.spiralgraphics.biz/

And you may be interested in this utility:  http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

What do you use CrazyBump for?

Quote - What do you use CrazyBump for?

Similar thing to what you showed in Bryce.

Bumpmaps work of the image lights and darks, and the lightest part of the image is the highest on the map, and the darkest is the lowest. I think most people know this, I'm just sort of going over it for the sake of thoroughness :)

What happens on many photographs of relief is that the brightest part of the image is not always the highest part on the bumpmap. When an image is plugged in to work as a bump map, this can lead to distorted relief.

For example, and image taken at noon, with the light straight up may very well make for a pretty darn accurate bump map, where the gifhest part of relief does get most light. Most of the time, the light comes at an angle, and the brightest part of the image is sort of sideways - to put it in simple terms.
The brightest part of the reflected light is always on a surface perpendicular to the angle of the incoming light ...blah blah blah... )

When someone wants to be really precise about how their relief looks, they can use this little program to correct that, and get a bump map that looks like the picture was taken at noon, and get a more precise relief out of their bump map.

I hope I didn't complicate the explanation too much here :)

Aha.  I see.  Thanks for the explanation, Connie.

Um... what happens if there are trenches, with the light directly overhead, the bottom of the trenches may be lit like the tops of the trenches, (- if they are wide,) with only shadow at the edges of the trenches?

Quote - Aha.  I see.  Thanks for the explanation, Connie.

Um... what happens if there are trenches, with the light directly overhead, the bottom of the trenches may be lit like the tops of the trenches, (- if they are wide,) with only shadow at the edges of the trenches?

It's possible that they end up looking too high when the image is used as a bump map. Sometimes theese things still need a few had-painted touchups.

If there is an easier way, I don't know about it.

By the way, I've got a little more done to the Organ:

Alrighty then, where did our favorite guys disappear????
I hope us girls didn't get too chatty and chased them out of the room?  Kooise? DV?

i am still here, more or less - got almost no sleep the last few days and i feel like a wet towel.
one thing however i don'tknow anything about is bumpmaps, displacement and so forth
i was already planning to tell fran that i love the progress of the street organ.

oh, and you were not too chatty!

Aw, I hope you feel better very very soon!

working on it - will go to bed within anhour and try to get some real good sleep.

I mirrored the model, plus a few extra bits in the centre, still plenty to do to it, but here's a Bryce render of progress to date for you.

Quote - these are the type of springs underneath the carts

Aha, nearly missed this.  Thanks Koosie, those are interesting.  I'll see what I can do.

Fran, that looks so cool :)

I could wish for a few clearer images, since there's an object next to the lemon that I'm not really sure of - to me it looks most like a bendy distorted jug.... so that's what I made.

Lol!

I did find another angle of the same organ online - but the 'jug' is completely out of view.

looks fantastic, fran - those green things are actually leaves - i will send you a better image by email (1600x1200) and i still have to draw the handle to move the thing.
as i finally slept a reasonable time i'm at feeling a lot better, so i will go for it again!

there is lots to do - have to get back to help jen too.

This is what the problem area looks like - see it looks like a squashy jug!

hey, don't worry - these decorations can be anything you want (mostly they were decorated in one theme, which could be anything at all, this one is apparently fruity :-) and they were not always top notch either, they got painted over time after time (in winter) and they were not always decorated by craftsmen either. the organs that survived are really pampered and kept by people who love those things. this is one of them.
i thought you asked for details because your image was not clear enough.

Got a tiny bit more done - more fruit!

I think either there's a ladle hanging off the back of the jug, or there's more to the handle... Think I'll do a ladle, it conjurs up thoughts of fruit punch and wassailling - besides a ladle will be handy for other things too...

I've got morning glories, a plumb, grapes, more leaves, the lemon, and now a pomegranite too.

i love that fruit and tose leaves - this willo be my favourite organ for sure.

Very nice water - what program is it to be used in then?

this water looks fabulous - a fine day at the river!

Sweet looking water!!!

You know, I was thinking, some of the procedural textures that are made in Max can probably be 'baked' into maps, so other programs can use it.  If you made that in Max :)

Fran, that's really nice detailing on the Organ!

I was mostly making the water for koosievantutte to use in kerkythea.
If anyone wants it, they are welcome to it; but anyone using Bryce, Vue, or some such can easily generate there own water.
This one is displaced plane for geometry. The displacement is pretty simplistic (a wave and a noise); and yes, those could be rendered to texture and used in any program that supports displacement. It isn't much to it in that respect. But that doesn't help koosie; who has no displacement in kerkythea; so I was planning on subdividing the plane, putting the displacement into a mesh modifier, and exporting the resulting geometry as an .obj
There is no texture on the water surface (except a simple random noise bump) either. Just a weak diffuse raw color. Nothing at all to it there. however...

Water surface properties are very complex and those can't be exported. Shaders like that don't transfer between programs. Shaders have to built specifically for each progam.
With this one, I am being careful to use only shaders that I know kerkythea can emulate. I will translate (at some point) the mental ray shaders into kerkythea shaders and make a water material. That could be applied to any 'water object' in kerkythea.

Koosie, are you more interested in physical accuracy or render time?
Water has several properties that are very render intensive. Good (meaning accurate) water takes a long time to render; and I think mine there is only fair. That said, the picture took almost 4 mins to render!!!
I will aim for a comfortable middle ground, but should I concentrate on accuracy or speed when constructing the kerkythea water material?
There is a lot of leeway in there.

**dvlenk6,

**I just can't seem to get my head around Kerkythea - mainly the lighting but also just how the view works.  Which means it's kind of a stumbling block to understanding any more of it.

I'm learning Cinema4D at the moment, instead.

Koosie,

Looking at your plan view, how much more needs to be modeled before we can look forward to seeing a whole scene?

I know we have a good deal of bits to do, like my organ, the wagon, street bits and bobs etc, but how much more larger modelling needs doing?

Just curious...

@ dv: i completely forgot that one, it means that you started your block along the long side of the inner harbour with the same building i don't think everything is lost because there is quite a lot of difference the way you look at it, so not much harm done.

@ fran: with what we have there already should be possibilities, but i think that when we finish the buildings around the innerharbour and add block (G) there must be possibilities already.

Interesting..... 

You know...I'm thinking some nice photographs of picturesque old towns could really help out; especially if they are panoramas...as background fillers, and whatnot...

Koosie, I don't think it will matter if you use the same builiding as a reference. I know I changed some things, and you do the same. It shouldn't end up looking like an identical clone that way. There is also the fact that textures can really change the way things look.

maybe we can use the images like i used for the corner i am working on (remember i have 28000 meters of fronts) - just put the scanned copies in a vectors prog and fill them with textures - must be not much of a problem, i think. for in between we could probably make very undemanding facades with just a little relief - just enough to make it look good in a render?

Yeah, those kind of facades are perfect for backgrounds (like the corner ones). Exactly what you need. You could fill up huge areas with them at relatively low memory cost.

that must be possible - there is somewhere a prog that converts bitmaps to vectors, which makes filling things up with the right textures a doddle. i expect not too much problems because the shapes are rather easy - if this does not work i can always put the bitmap/jpeg in a vectors prog, make a certain part transparent and fill it up with the desired texture - this has to be done texture after texture, so it will take somewhat more time, but it's doable.

Most raster to vector conversion programs (I used to experiment with a fre) don't do a very good job at converting something into a closed figure. If there's a little bitty gap, they tend to leave a gap in vectors too, which messes up the fills.
When I needed a clean vector drawing I would end up retracing things in autocad or some other vector graphic program. Over the years the number of times I and to deal with this are countless... comes up once every few weeks.

Now, if you want me to trace some of those facades in a vector format, lemme know, I have all kinds of tools for that. I have couple of raster to vector converters at work too... they mainly end up unused.